Vermont to become a destination for FIRE?

[pb4uski]

I don't know much about the Vermont Healthcare reform, but did it replace Medicare?

No, my understanding is that once you are 65, Medicare would apply but it might cover Medicare co-pays and deductibles (like Medigap). Thing is, single payer is very unlikely to happen IMO.

 

[pb4uski]

Actually, I was thinking of Vermont more in terms of one of the artisan cheese farms. Yummy!

Ahhh...Vermont.....yummy!

Home | Ben & Jerry’s

If you get a chance try the Cabot Cheese Horseradish cheese. Yummy. I remember when B&J was starting out in a former gas station in downtown Burlington and would show movies on one of the buildings walls during the summer. Today, IIRC B&J is the #1 tourist attraction.

We also have a large number of craft beer makers. Hill Farmstead Brewery is well known and has many highly rated brews. The Alchemist's Heady Topper double IPA is outstanding, but has quite a kick (8%). A number of others as well.

 

[Sarah in SC]

I have enjoyed more than a few Heady Toppers, and managed to smuggle a few back into SC in my luggage after our last visit to my sister in the Burlington area.
I love it up there, but not sure I could make it through the winter.
But the beer is fantastic!

 

[pb4uski]

They are definitely an acquired taste. The first one I had I didn't particularly like, but i kept having them because DD and DW had bought a case! I like them now but can't have more than one at a time and only have one a couple times a week. They give me a real nice buzz so I need to make sure that I don't need to drive that night. Lot's of people have heard about them but not had them yet.

 

[skyvue]

True, we outlawed denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions long before ACA, and our health insurance premiums are not age rated. Individual insurance is more similar to group coverage. The consequence of that is prior to ACA we had relatively high premiums.

Today, premiums are fairly reasonable compared to many parts of the country. Bronze coverage for 2014 was ~$342/month and catastrophic coverage is $214/month per person.

Wow! Those have to be among the lowest rates in the country?

 

[ERhoosier]

......Today, premiums are fairly reasonable compared to many parts of the country.......

According to these data, VT has some of the highest ave HI premiums of any state-
Health Insurance Market Premiums - Bloomberg
http://www.zanebenefits.com/blog/bid/315600/Analysis-2014-Health-Insurance-Exchange-Rates

But obviously YMMV. Few pay the hypothetical "ave" since individual premiums can vary a lot within any given state (e.g. by region).

 

[ziggy29]

Wow! Those have to be among the lowest rates in the country?

Maybe for anything that isn't age-dependent. For me (in Texas, age 48) the unsubsidized Bronze PPO plans are about $275. If I were 60 or even 55, it might be higher. I never crunched those numbers.

What remains to be seen is how the "invisible hand" could push younger wage-earners with higher taxes (and higher HI premiums than younger folks elsewhere) to move elsewhere. It can only remain a good deal for lower-income retirees as long as the younger folks stay in the system, purchase insurance and pay state taxes. For the math to keep working you need to have an appropriate demographic and economic mix as inputs into the system.

 

[Mulligan]

I've lived here my whole life (so far) and never heard of such a thing. Sounds like an [-]urban[/-] rural legend to me. I'm ske[tical unless you can provide some facts.

I hope you are correct. That tax and it's implied cost sounded plain ridiculous to me. But I am not an artsy person though.


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[marko]

I've lived here my whole life (so far) and never heard of such a thing. Sounds like an [-]urban[/-] rural legend to me. I'm ske[tical unless you can provide some facts.

I didn't make it up, I'm only relaying what SIL's sister told us as to why they had to move to another town. Their main point was that an influx of wealthy people had moved into town and decided that an additional tax would be a good thing.

Our friends opined that there was a tangible "rich newcomers vs old time working stiffs" tension going on and that the blue collars were being forced out.

We only see them perhaps once a year so I suspect by the time I see them again to get more details, this thread will be long gone.

 

[SoClose]

But obviously YMMV. Few pay the hypothetical "ave" since individual premiums can vary a lot within any given state (e.g. by region).

There are no regions in VT, everyone in VT has the same rates

http://info.healthconnect.vermont.gov/sites/hcexchange/files/Plan%20Designs%20with%20Final%20Rates_updated_10%2010%2013.pdf

Deductible Plans - Single Rates

Platinum $582.79 - ded = $150 max op = $1250
Gold $497.06 - ded = 750 max op = $4250
Silver $425.19 - ded = 1900 max op = $5100
Bronze $359.47 - ded = 3500 max op = $6350

 

[aaronc879]

I live in Vermont and have been following the single payer proposal closely. I think the reality is that the Governor and legislature will not be able to figure out a sensible way of paying for single payer without ruining the economy and will ultimately either give up on single payer or revise it dramatically.

This site explains it pretty well:
What is Green Mountain Care? | Vermont Leads

"Green Mountain Care will be financed by some form of a public tax, which will largely replace what we pay currently in the form of health care premiums. Under Green Mountain Care, everyone will pay on a sliding scale, based on income."

 

[M Paquette]

Wow! Those have to be among the lowest rates in the country?

They're lower than the age-weighted premiums most of us see ($574/mo for age 60, Bronze HSA eligible HMO plan for me, for example), but Vermont doesn't allow age-weighting in the insurance plans, so the price looks more like a group insurance plan, with the entire adult population as the group.

The rates will look high to a 26 year old from another state ($210/mo here for age 26, Bronze HSA eligible HMO plan), but low for those of us approaching Medicare.

 

[friar1610]

We also have a large number of craft beer makers. Hill Farmstead Brewery is well known and has many highly rated brews. The Alchemist's Heady Topper double IPA is outstanding, but has quite a kick (8%). A number of others as well.

During the 8 years I lived there my favorite was Switchback unfiltered ale.

Switchback Ale | Switchback Brewing Co. | BURLINGTON, VT

Except on rare occasion (such as one Christmas season, IIRC) it was not available in bottles or cans; you could only get it on draught.

 

[pb4uski]

According to these data, VT has some of the highest ave HI premiums of any state-
Health Insurance Market Premiums - Bloomberg
http://www.zanebenefits.com/blog/bid/315600/Analysis-2014-Health-Insurance-Exchange-Rates

But obviously YMMV. Few pay the hypothetical "ave" since individual premiums can vary a lot within any given state (e.g. by region).

The flaw in your conclusion is that you are comparing age rated plans with plans that are not age rated. I noted that in the second link it cited "Of the 12 states analyzed the average premiums for ages 21, 40, and 60 are $271, $327, and $615, respectively" and cites a Vermont silver plan costs $411 per month. I think the graph below that was on one of the links you provided dispels your assertion that our HI is amount the highest of any state.

 

[pb4uski]

This site explains it pretty well:
What is Green Mountain Care? | Vermont Leads

"Green Mountain Care will be financed by some form of a public tax, which will largely replace what we pay currently in the form of health care premiums. Under Green Mountain Care, everyone will pay on a sliding scale, based on income."

In this case, the devil is definitely in the details, which have yet to be worked out. The Governor was required by statute to provide the legislature with a plan as to how to pay for it last spring as I recall. He essentially blew them off and has yet to deliver a funding plan. Since this is an election year and he is up for reelection, I doubt we'll see any plan until after the gubernatorial election.

 

[ziggy29]

I think the graph below that was on one of the links you provided dispels your assertion that our HI is amount the highest of any state.

This just means that whether or not it is "one of the highest" depends on whether you are 32 or 62. If you are 62, without age rating it will be one of the cheapest. But at 32 it will be one of the most expensive (but apparently, NY's is more expensive).

What Vermont will have to do is convince the people under about 50 that it's still worth staying at home. If they do that the numbers can work and it will be a pretty good deal for retired Vermonters.

 

[pb4uski]

....What Vermont will have to do is convince the people under about 50 that it's still worth staying at home. If they do that the numbers can work and it will be a pretty good deal for retired Vermonters.

I agree, but it is much more than for just health insurance. Our demographics are getting older. IIRC we are one of the oldest states in the nation.

People want to live here because of the quality of life (even though winters are difficult, we attract those who like the outdoors and just bundle up and enjoy it. Long underwear and good snowpants are a must.) But they also need to work.

Our challenge is to balance enough economic growth to provide high quality job opportunities so our kids don't feel a need to move away when they become young adults with keeping Vermont "Vermont" and not becoming a Massachusetts, Connecticut, or New York.

 

[ERhoosier]

There are no regions in VT, everyone in VT has the same rates ....

But almost all other states do, and that makes broad comparisons problematic. In many states the regional cost variances can be quite large. In my current state, premiums for same Silver plan for same age person can be 1/3rd higher in highest vs lowest cost region. So (depending on age of course) VT premiums could be higher or lower than high or low cost regions within another state.

 

[Sarah in SC]

During the 8 years I lived there my favorite was Switchback unfiltered ale.



Switchback Ale | Switchback Brewing Co. | BURLINGTON, VT



Except on rare occasion (such as one Christmas season, IIRC) it was not available in bottles or cans; you could only get it on draught.

Ok so I know this thread is about healthcare, but I have to say I also love Switchback!! It is all I order on tap when we visit since we can't get it in bottles to bring home. I'm also a fan of Long Creek. <edit to correct that to Long Trail / Otter Creek to please the beer police! >
We visited the Switchback brewery a few years ago and it was really nice, with good folks running it.
Yay for beer!

 

[pb4uski]

Switchback is great, as is Trout River Rainbow Red.

By any chance did you have any ice cider when you were here? It tastes to me similar to a sweet dessert wine. Very good... and very expensive.

And IIRC a little alcohol is good for your health, so it fits fine in this thread.

 

[MichaelB]

Switchback is great, as is Trout River Rainbow Red.

By any chance did you have any ice cider when you were here? It tastes to me similar to a sweet dessert wine. Very good... and very expensive.

And IIRC a little alcohol is good for your health, so it fits fine in this thread.

Some of us include fermented and brewed beverages as "meds", and that means they qualify as part of the cost of health care discussion.

 

[pb4uski]

Good point I forgot about, they are also a form of muscle relaxant but don't overdose!

 

[SoClose]

But almost all other states do, and that makes broad comparisons problematic. In many states the regional cost variances can be quite large. In my current state, premiums for same Silver plan for same age person can be 1/3rd higher in highest vs lowest cost region. So (depending on age of course) VT premiums could be higher or lower than high or low cost regions within another state.

Right, so back to OP - Vermont has had ACA protections for years and currently has some of the lowest health insurance rates for older folks due to no age premium adjustments And we are NOT seeing an influx of destination FIRE's

I'm so saddened by reading older posts of folks not being able to RE because it takes them months/years to find a health plan that covered preexisting conditions, when if they would have come to VT it would have been a non issue.

 

[friar1610]

Ok so I know this thread is about healthcare, but I have to say I also love Switchback!! It is all I order on tap when we visit since we can't get it in bottles to bring home. I'm also a fan of Long Creek.
We visited the Switchback brewery a few years ago and it was really nice, with good folks running it.
Yay for beer!

I hate to nitpick (but I'm going to.) It's Long Trail or Otter Creek but I'm not aware of any Long Creek. It can be confusing because Long Trail acquired Otter Creek a few years ago (and that acquisition included Otter Creek's organic brand, Wolaver's.) Both are excellent beers. I used to drive by the Otter Creek brewery in Middlebury on the way home from the gym (and there's the tie-in to health!) and was occasionally known to stop for some of its product.

 

[pb4uski]

But if you drink enough Long Trail and enough Otter Creek then it can get confusing, so let's give Sarah a pass.