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Vermont to become a destination for FIRE?
Old 07-28-2014, 11:53 AM   #1
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Vermont to become a destination for FIRE?

I had not heard about this previously, but I saw this weekend on one of the Sunday news programs that Vermont is pursuing a Canadian style health care option for their state. In other words, they will cut the insurance companies out and provide health care to all their citizens. I don't want this to be a political thread on the merits of such a program, but if they offered essentially "free" health care, wouldn't this become an attractive state for early retirees until folks are eligible for Medicare?

Maybe they would only offer this perk to people who have been residents of the state for x number of years?
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:56 AM   #2
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Healthcare is never free, if it followed the single payer approach the cost would be paid through taxes.
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:59 AM   #3
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Healthcare is never free, if it followed the single payer approach the cost would be paid through taxes.
While discussing the UK HC system, I actually had a (highly educated) lady tell me : "of course it's free; the government pays for it!"
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:02 PM   #4
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Healthcare is never free, if it followed the single payer approach the cost would be paid through taxes.
I understand that, but for people who are already retired and no longer generating much "earned income" it may likely be free to them. Thus my question about whether this would be enticing enough for early retirees to start moving there?
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:10 PM   #5
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I understand that, but for people who are already retired and no longer generating much "earned income" it may likely be free to them. Thus my question about whether this would be enticing enough for early retirees to start moving there?
I don't know much about the Vermont Healthcare reform, but did it replace Medicare?
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:14 PM   #6
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VT is an interesting place. SIL's sister lived there and the town they lived in imposed a pretty heavy "arts tax" on top of the property tax. I forget how much it was but it was quite hefty, like 2 or 3 grand a year. The idea was to be able for the town to buy artwork and place it in public areas or something like that.

The tax was so onerous that the working stiffs had to move out of town, making room of course, for the wealthy newcomers. (which many suspected was the plan all along)
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:17 PM   #7
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I don't know much about the Vermont Healthcare reform, but did it replace Medicare?
Green Mountain Care (the new single-payer system) won't be in effect for the general population[1] until at least 2017, after which federal law permits Vermont to obtain a waiver from ACA requirements.

Once in effect, Vermont Medicare recipients keep their Medicare benefits and have Green Mountain Care as secondary coverage.

Here's a handy chart of how different populations in Vermont are to be handled:
http://hcr.vermont.gov/sites/hcr/fil...C%20011614.pdf


1. Green Mountain Care currently handles Medicaid patients and the "Dr. Dynasaur" program for children, teens under 19, and pregnant women.
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:24 PM   #8
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As a Vermonter, I along with many are wondering how this will work. Our Governor has made it one of his priorities but details as to funding and how it will work are severely lacking.

As of 1/1/14, all individuals who buy their own coverage and businesses under 50 people in VT had to purchase coverage from the State run ACA website.

VT ACA has no premium increase for age

I'm surprised Vermont didn't become a RE haven prior to ACA, as Vermonters have benefited from most all the protections of ACA for many years before the rest of the country.
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:26 PM   #9
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I don't know much about the Vermont Healthcare reform, but did it replace Medicare?
I am not sure on how it would impact Medicare. But it could be an attractive option for those folks who are retired, but not yet 65. The savings of having to buy private insurance from say age 50 to 65 could be very substantial!
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:26 PM   #10
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I don't know much about the Vermont Healthcare reform, but did it replace Medicare?
NO
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:30 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by M Paquette View Post
Green Mountain Care (the new single-payer system) won't be in effect for the general population[1] until at least 2017, after which federal law permits Vermont to obtain a waiver from ACA requirements.

Once in effect, Vermont Medicare recipients keep their Medicare benefits and have Green Mountain Care as secondary coverage.

Here's a handy chart of how different populations in Vermont are to be handled:
http://hcr.vermont.gov/sites/hcr/fil...C%20011614.pdf


1. Green Mountain Care currently handles Medicaid patients and the "Dr. Dynasaur" program for children, teens under 19, and pregnant women.
Thank you very much for the link; that is very helpful info.
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:31 PM   #12
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I moved from VT to MA about a year ago. I have not kept up with the health care debate since then, so my information may be dated.

As I understood it then, the "single payer" system being advocated by Gov. Shumlin would have had the state serve as the "insurance company." People would still have paid premiums (based on their incomes) and I suppose those at the very low end of the income scale would not have had to pay premiums. People who were covered by Federal programs such as Medicare and Tricare would not have to participate in the single payer system, so my
inference was that the Federal programs would have been a better deal. (And, as far as I know, nothing has yet been implemented.)

Vermont is a high tax state and its taxes are all quite progressive so that middle/upper income people shoulder a fairly large burden. Medicare, civil service and military pensions are all subject to state income tax. Property taxes are not cheap and they are tied to income so some people pay very little. The population is only about 650K, so costs are spread across a fairly small base of taxpayers compared to other states.

Vermont is a beautiful state with a lot to recommend it as a retirement location but, based on my experience there, getting a good deal on health insurance would not, in and of itself, be a cost-effective reason for retiring there.

Disclosure: if I had remained there I would not have been a participant in the proposed single payer system as I am both Medicare and Tricare eligible
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:31 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by M Paquette View Post
Green Mountain Care (the new single-payer system) won't be in effect for the general population[1] until at least 2017, after which federal law permits Vermont to obtain a waiver from ACA requirements.

Once in effect, Vermont Medicare recipients keep their Medicare benefits and have Green Mountain Care as secondary coverage.

Here's a handy chart of how different populations in Vermont are to be handled:
http://hcr.vermont.gov/sites/hcr/fil...C%20011614.pdf


1. Green Mountain Care currently handles Medicaid patients and the "Dr. Dynasaur" program for children, teens under 19, and pregnant women.
Will the average Vermont resident have to pay a premium for this coverage? Any info on what that might be?
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:33 PM   #14
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Move somewhere with lots of snow just to get 'free' health insurance? Not a chance.

I'll stay here in my low overall tax, sunny NV state and buy my subsidized insurance from the ACA when the time comes. (NV runs it's own exchange so subsidies aren't at risk)
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:41 PM   #15
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Will the average Vermont resident have to pay a premium for this coverage? Any info on what that might be?
As far as I know, nothing has been resolved yet. It may take the form of a 'public premium', a tax, mix of taxes, or some combination of all of these. Costs are expected to be comparable to a similar group insurance plan or existing non-age-rated individual plans as applied to the general population. (That is, it is not a Magic Bullet to miraculously drop medical costs at inception.)
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:51 PM   #16
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Move somewhere with lots of snow just to get 'free' health insurance? Not a chance.
+1 on the snow concerns. A friend moved from VT to Raleigh and still can't get the winter chill out of his bones. I'll stick with my southeastern US winters that only last a few months and have the occasional 70 degree interspersed with below freezing weather (and a snow storm some years!!).
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Old 07-28-2014, 01:44 PM   #17
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Last time someone had a thread that was similar to this (not about HC) and I replied telling the truth I received a warning. I don't post much now because it is difficult to reply to some things without getting into trouble.

I'll keep this short and sweet (from here on):

1. Nothing is free someone pays for it
2. It is cold and snows a lot in VT, I don't see retirees opting for that vs the south unless they like that and most don't.
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Old 07-28-2014, 02:12 PM   #18
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....
2. It is cold and snows a lot in VT, I don't see retirees opting for that vs the south unless they like that and most don't.
There are actually quite a few retirees in VT (relative to the population.) Some - but certainly not all - go South for the winter. I agree it helps to like things like skiing, skating, snowshoeing, etc. if you want to spend time outdoors in the winter. A lot of people I knew have interests and hobbies that they can happily pursue indoors so the weather doesn't phase them.

But, as you basically note, different strokes for different folks. In my own case, I would not want to live permanently in the South (although a mid-winter trip for a couple of weeks is a nice break.)
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Old 07-28-2014, 02:34 PM   #19
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Once in effect, Vermont Medicare recipients keep their Medicare benefits and have Green Mountain Care as secondary coverage.

Here's a handy chart of how different populations in Vermont are to be handled:
http://hcr.vermont.gov/sites/hcr/fil...C%20011614.pdf
Nice chart. Very helpful link, thanks!

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Originally Posted by skyvue View Post
I am not sure on how it would impact Medicare. But it could be an attractive option for those folks who are retired, but not yet 65. The savings of having to buy private insurance from say age 50 to 65 could be very substantial!
From M Paquette's post and link, Green Mountain Care will provide Medicare supplemental insurance, which is a large and important part of total coverage.

The total cost of health care per inhabitant might decline, as the State now has the mechanism to enroll the entire population. If the State takes over as sole insurer it can still charge an unsubsidized premium to the majority of users, and it's not clear if payment will be via direct premium, taxes or some combination. For Vermont to be a preferred retirement (or ER) location there would have to be a subsidy in the cost of healthcare greater than elsewhere. That part isn't yet clear.
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Old 07-28-2014, 02:45 PM   #20
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Actually, I was thinking of Vermont more in terms of one of the artisan cheese farms. Yummy!
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