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Old 03-09-2008, 03:07 PM   #21
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I am not FIRE'd yet, but the simple fact that we save aggressively and LBYM is enough to turn a lot of people off (we are the party poopers so-to-speak). So already, most of our friends tend to be like minded and though we never talk about FIRE with them, I suspect they are pursuing it as well. We don't care what co-workers think anyways, so it's not a problem. The only people we shared our FIRE plans with were our parents. My parents think that if we retire before the age of 60, we will throw our lives away and that it would be stupid to give up good careers that pay lots of money. "It's just not what people do". They also think we will turn into bums who not only won't contribute to the "system", but actually will burden it. My wife's parents see it another way: they believe it will benefit them. Afterall, if we could retire at 45, then why not work until 65 and give THEM all that extra money we don't need to subsidize their retirements. I am sure you're thinking "he's joking" right now. I wish... Like my MIL said last year to my wife: "Now you're working for ALL of us"... Keep dreaming babe... So now we just keep our FIRE plans (and financial situation) strictly for ourselves.
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Old 03-09-2008, 04:42 PM   #22
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So already, most of our friends tend to be like minded and though we never talk about FIRE with them, I suspect they are pursuing it as well.
Boy does that hit home, I thought I was the only one who was so secretive about it, though I should have known better. DW and I have never told anyone we're already FI, not even family. This is the only place I admit it, under anonymity. When anyone asks us about retirement, we always say 'we'll have to work forever' like most everyone else. Only other FIRE that I've known well, announced his retirement and left within 6 weeks at about 55 years old - no one had any idea he would leave at that age and everyone was shocked (I just chuckled to myself). He left a high paying/high stress job, goofed off for a while, and now works at Home Depot just for laughs (and cheap materials) because he loves home projects and he's good at it. He doesn't need the money at all. I hope to follow in similar footsteps in a few years...and shock my friends and co-workers as well.
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:46 PM   #23
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My wife's parents see it another way: they believe it will benefit them. Afterall, if we could retire at 45, then why not work until 65 and give THEM all that extra money we don't need to subsidize their retirements. I am sure you're thinking "he's joking" right now. I wish...
I find your attitude to be a little on the selfish side. You're saying that you would only have to work an additional 20 years to insure that your in-laws were financially stable - and you won't do it. For heaven's ake, man, these people are the grandparents of your children. How do you sleep at night!
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Old 03-09-2008, 11:03 PM   #24
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I find your attitude to be a little on the selfish side. You're saying that you would only have to work an additional 20 years to insure that your in-laws were financially stable - and you won't do it. For heaven's ake, man, these people are the grandparents of your children. How do you sleep at night!
I manage just fine, thank you .
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Old 03-10-2008, 05:00 AM   #25
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Knowing that most of my friends work hard for the money and are no doubt envious of my retirement i just try not to bring the subject up and really avoid making retirement jokes when in the presence of working people,they may laugh but I'm sure they don't appreciate the rubbing it in attitude.
They are Especially sensitive since most of them never planned for retirement,blew every penny they had on toys or trips and now they are 60 and their only option is to keep working.I lived by the same principle but fortunately the company i worked for had a generous pension plan,if not for that plan i would be working till that big day.
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Old 03-10-2008, 10:23 AM   #26
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Retired at 39. Friends happy for us - congrats! After many years we still keep in touch. Even though we have moved away and travel most of the time, we still really enjoy getting together. Of course we have made many, many new friends since retiring.

Audrey

P.S. I always wonder what kind friends they are if they are NOT happy with one's good fortune. I can't imagine feeling otherwise about them. At worst, a happy envy for their good fortune if my own situation compared poorly (Oh jeez dude, I would love to be able to do that!).
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Old 03-10-2008, 01:51 PM   #27
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Knowing that most of my friends work hard for the money and are no doubt envious of my retirement i just try not to bring the subject up and really avoid making retirement jokes when in the presence of working people,they may laugh but I'm sure they don't appreciate the rubbing it in attitude.
Very wise.

Some on this board refer to non-RE'd (or non-RE bound) friends and relatives as morons who blew their money and now have to work until they die. The non-RE'd folks around me are, for the most part, different than that. Most live pragmatic, conservative financial lives but for various reasons will work until their mid-60's before being financially able to retire comfortably. Some had larger families, some personal or family health related issues, some had job issues relating to companies closing, some just didn't have the earning power or career management skills to put a FIRE portfolio together at an early age.

I get no satisfaction out of flaunting my accomplishment/good fortune in front of these folks. We value our relationships which have much more commonality than only LBYM and FIRE.

Example: I like to paddle and be in the outdoors. There is a large local paddling club that organizes trips on local lakes and rivers. A sub-group does trips on weekdays when things are seldom crowded and that's my favorite. But when participating in a weekend trip, I never crow about how much better the weekday trips are due to lack of crowds, etc. I just enjoy the weekend trip and being with those still-working folks and don't bring the nicer weekday scenarios up. Even if directly asked, I downplay it. What we have in common is paddling and a love of the outdoors. FIRE, the wonders of RE, careers, financial skills, employment benefits, etc., just aren't part of the deal.

To OP - take some responsibility for the attitude you project, subtly offer to share your good fortune in small (non-monetary) ways, downplay the skills and good fortune that helped you along your path to FIRE, don't offer advise unless asked and then keep it specific and brief, and you'll find most folks will not envy you but will be happy for you.

Enjoy FIRE! You're gona love it!
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Old 03-10-2008, 04:13 PM   #28
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Overall, people tend to find other people in similar circumstances, with similar attitudes, etc. This is not 100%, but it is a statistical likelihood.

Married couples with kids tend to be friends with other married parents. Singles tend to have mostly single friends. Couples with no kids tend to have mostly others in the same boat as close friends.

Even proximity is very important. Back in WW2 some American social scientists using a technique called a sociogram studied friendship patterns in married housing on an army base. They found that those who lived on a corner where two streets intersected had more friends.

But ER is a little different. In many areas of the country there just are not very many of us. In my area most of the retired people I have met are quite wealthy. There hobbies and activities are different from mine. The rest are working, regardless of age unless they were public employees. But I dont know many of them.

So most of my friends work. And from where they sit, I work too. It isn't like I live in a suburb where my comings and goings would be logged and deciphered by some neighborhood watchman. In fact I do work, as I don't have enough money to be a passive investor and meet my income goals. It takes lot of time to read SEC filings, listen to CCs, etc.

Ha
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Old 03-10-2008, 05:31 PM   #29
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When I got out at 43 most just rolled eyes in disbelief ... so for them I said "I'll be managing my rentals ... that can be work." Made them feel better.
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Old 03-10-2008, 06:54 PM   #30
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Overall, people tend to find other people in similar circumstances, with similar attitudes, etc. This is not 100%, but it is a statistical likelihood.
Married couples with kids tend to be friends with other married parents. Singles tend to have mostly single friends. Couples with no kids tend to have mostly others in the same boat as close friends.
What i need to find is a group of loners.
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Old 03-10-2008, 06:58 PM   #31
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What i need to find is a group of loners.
I'm trying to envision a gathering of hermits.
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Old 03-10-2008, 07:09 PM   #32
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When anyone asks us about retirement, we always say 'we'll have to work forever' like most everyone else.
My standard answer if someone asks (DW I have somewhat of a reputation of being frugal, and I have a rep for personal finance knowledge) is, "Do you have ANY IDEA how much money it takes to retire early?!?!?!
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Old 03-11-2008, 11:54 PM   #33
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Very wise.

Some on this board refer to non-RE'd (or non-RE bound) friends and relatives as morons who blew their money and now have to work until they die. The non-RE'd folks around me are, for the most part, different than that. Most live pragmatic, conservative financial lives but for various reasons will work until their mid-60's before being financially able to retire comfortably. Some had larger families, some personal or family health related issues, some had job issues relating to companies closing, some just didn't have the earning power or career management skills to put a FIRE portfolio together at an early age.

I get no satisfaction out of flaunting my accomplishment/good fortune in front of these folks. We value our relationships which have much more commonality than only LBYM and FIRE.

Example: I like to paddle and be in the outdoors. There is a large local paddling club that organizes trips on local lakes and rivers. A sub-group does trips on weekdays when things are seldom crowded and that's my favorite. But when participating in a weekend trip, I never crow about how much better the weekday trips are due to lack of crowds, etc. I just enjoy the weekend trip and being with those still-working folks and don't bring the nicer weekday scenarios up. Even if directly asked, I downplay it. What we have in common is paddling and a love of the outdoors. FIRE, the wonders of RE, careers, financial skills, employment benefits, etc., just aren't part of the deal.

To OP - take some responsibility for the attitude you project, subtly offer to share your good fortune in small (non-monetary) ways, downplay the skills and good fortune that helped you along your path to FIRE, don't offer advise unless asked and then keep it specific and brief, and you'll find most folks will not envy you but will be happy for you.

Enjoy FIRE! You're gona love it!
i always thought kayaking (paddling ?) would be a fun thing to take up.
is there a web resource you recommend for seeing if there is something
akin to your club locally for me (which is southern california) ?
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Old 03-12-2008, 01:58 AM   #34
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Bay Area Sea Kayakers, 229 Courtright Road, San Rafael, CA 94901
BASK - the San Francisco Bay Area Sea Kayakers
California Kayak Friends, 2419 E. Harbor Blvd. #96, Ventura, CA. 93001
CKF, California Kayak Friends Club
California National Canoe and Kayak Club, Box 1686, Clovis, CA 93613,
(559) 298-1209
Kern River Alliance, 909 Oberlin Court, Bakersfield, CA 93305
The Kern River Alliance
San Francisco Sea Kayakers, 229 Courtright Rd., San Rafael, CA 94901
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:48 AM   #35
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In fact I do work, as I don't have enough money to be a passive investor and meet my income goals. It takes lot of time to read SEC filings, listen to CCs, etc.

Ha
Ha, you the man! I want to be like you when I grow up.

I have not had any problems with my friends. Some say they are jealous but they are happy for me. I always had a cheap old bastard reputation so they figure I just managed my money well. Plus I am single so obviously that made a huge difference.

When I pop by the office everyone seems happy to see me. I have a couple of work buddies I meet every 2 weeks for a steak and beer. So no problems for me.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:17 AM   #36
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When I pop by the office everyone seems happy to see me. I have a couple of work buddies I meet every 2 weeks for a steak and beer. So no problems for me.
Wow. When I finally reach nirvana, oops, I mean ER, I will never want to go back to work. As I envision ER, I don't think I would want to meet with people from work frequently like that. I am hoping that ER will be a transition to a new phase in my life with new interests and new pursuits. Part of what I am looking forward to is getting away from office politics, and I am not sure I could separate office politics from the people themselves. Maybe?
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:35 AM   #37
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I'm hoping to ER later this year, around the age of 48. (If I have the nerve to follow through with this plan!)

I'm just wondering what any other early retirees out there have to say about
how their ER affected relationships with non-ER'd friends. Any jealousy or hard feelings to work through? Some friends my age will probably be working for another 20 year years. Hopefully they'd all be happy for me, but I can't help wondering if there'd be any hard feelings too.
I would not worry about what friends think, because if they thought bad of me, or were jealous, I would not want them as friends.

One issue I point out to my wife often is the people we consider friends change over time. This is true for just about anyone, IMO.

I have three real good friends. One I've known since HS and see 3 times per year when I travel 400 miles to his side of country, one from college, see him maybe once a year- he is 400 miles in another direction, and another friend locally and we hang our around 3 times per month.

Plenty of other people know me... and there are people which say hi to me all the time and I have to ask myself "who was that"... so I have more than enough social interaction from casual aquaintences.

If I look back just 6 years ago to year I got married, that list of 3 people was much different and my relationships with all 3 were much different- the one I spend the most time with now I did not even know at the time.

If I look back 11 years ago (to when I graduated college), that list was still different. I did not know half the people which came to my wedding 11 year ago (including my wife) and the people I knew were more work related or college party related.

My point is that the people which are truly your friends will support you. Whether you have cancer, retire early, or get a sex change.
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Old 03-12-2008, 12:29 PM   #38
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One point not yet bought up is now that we are free 24/7 the wife and I tend to do more during the week and avoid the crowds on the weekends. Working friends live for the weekend so there is a difference in our view of spending time with them.
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Old 03-12-2008, 12:52 PM   #39
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The only people we shared our FIRE plans with were our parents. My parents think that if we retire before the age of 60, we will throw our lives away and that it would be stupid to give up good careers that pay lots of money. "It's just not what people do". They also think we will turn into bums who not only won't contribute to the "system", but actually will burden it. Ö.So now we just keep our FIRE plans (and financial situation) strictly for ourselves.

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Boy does that hit home, I thought I was the only one who was so secretive about it, though I should have known better. DW and I have never told anyone we're already FI, not even family.


Billy and I have a practical technique that has worked for us since we owned our businesses decades ago. We rarely talk to others about things that we want to accomplish. For us, talking to others about something we really want to happen seems to take the focus away from the project or goal itself and we get lost in defending, justifying, convincing or explaining instead of doing.

RE: the becoming bums and not contributing to the system, actually burdening it,Ö we have found that many financially independent people tend to volunteer their time and skills; they are givers. When we worked 60-80 hours a week, I couldnít do anything else except work. Now, volunteer time is part of our lifestyle.
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One issue I point out to my wife often is the people we consider friends change over time. My point is that the people which are truly your friends will support you. Whether you have cancer, retire early, or get a sex change.


I think you are right on the money with that. Although I have friendships that are decades old, itís because we have renewed that friendship over and over through the ups and downs.

Be well,
Akaisha
Author, The Adventurerís Guide to Early Retirement
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Old 03-12-2008, 02:18 PM   #40
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Wow. When I finally reach nirvana, oops, I mean ER, I will never want to go back to work. As I envision ER, I don't think I would want to meet with people from work frequently like that. I am hoping that ER will be a transition to a new phase in my life with new interests and new pursuits. Part of what I am looking forward to is getting away from office politics, and I am not sure I could separate office politics from the people themselves. Maybe?
I agreed to give my replacement some help/advice for a period of time when I left the company. I also have one more check due me(Friday btw ) so I wouldn't have been by as much otherwise. But I do have some good friends there, some I play golf with on occasion. Some I knew back in college.

Although I'm glad to be gone doing my own thing, I have no problem dropping in to visit for a few minutes. They were good to me.
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