Were The Hippies Right?

[missionfinder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff Good posts LaDelfina! Missionfinder - grow some calluses. If you pay close attention you will see that a fair number of us are somewhat to the left and a fair number somewhat to the right and most vacillate depending on the topic. I, for one lefty, like getting the "right" point of view since it isn't part of my daily experience (except when I switch over to 'Oh Really' during Countdown station breaks).

Its not rebuttals that bother me. I'm a big boy and can deal with them and quite enjoy reading other points of view. When people have to resort to childish labeling of the messenger and racist implications, is when I am bothered. I didn't call anyone here a bedwetter, tree-hugger, granola eater, bleeding heart or commie pinko nor do I believe in those types of labels so why the need for some folks to act like school-yard pricks and throw labels rather than debating the content? Why not debate instead of calling people "right winger", right wingo bingo players, "kool-aid" drinker, etc.

I hold opinions that my conservative and liberal friends don't agree with in the slightest but they've never seen fit to put a label on me.....

[Martha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by missionfinder When people have to resort to . . . racist implications, is when I am bothered.

I see nothing in Ladelfina's posts that imply you are rascist.

Quote:

so why the need for some folks to act like school-yard pricks and throw labels rather than debating the content?

Well your content was rather baiting, wasn't it? Sure, a few people bit back. I am not surprised. But most responses were to the point, in particular, Ladelfina's responses.

[missionfinder]

re: spitting on soldiers

Quote:

This has been pretty much debunked as well.

A December 27, 1971, television report on CBS Evening News, for example, told of a returning veteran named Delmar Pickett, who said he was spat on in Seattle

The New York Times ran several articles about returning soldiers, veterans, national guards and ROTC members being spat on. In August 27, 1967, Neil Sheehan wrote about how national guards are trained to react to riots which included spitting.

In November 14, 1967, Max Frankel wrote about an incident at World War I memorial service by the American Legion where people were spit on.

On November 30, 1971, the Times published an article about the mistreatment of soldiers on the street that included spitting.

On December 29, 1967, the Washington Post published a story where a student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee offical declared that spitting on President Lyndon Johnson was a legitimate tactic for antiwar activists.

On June 2, 1971, the Chicago Tribune published another story about a spitting incident.

On June 9, 1971, the Reno Evening Gazette published a story about a veteran said he was spit on twice and denied service at a restaurant.

On July 24, 1971, the Holland Evening Sentinel published a story about a protestor who spit on Senator Birch Bayh and ran away. The protestor who was a Vietnam veteran was found and admitted to spitting, but claimed it was an accident.

On Sep 15, 1971, an editorial in the Washington Post mentions soldiers in uniform being spat on, both literally and figuratively.

In 1971, a United States Senate subcommittee published a Drug Abuse Prevention and Control report mentioning that veterans wrote back to their buddies in Vietnam about spitting incidents.

James Reston, two-time winner of the Pulitzer Prize.
New York Times front page story covering the October 21-22, 1967 Washington anti-war demonstrations: “It is difficult to report publicly the ugly and vulgar provocation of many of the militants. They spat on some of the soldiers in the front line at the Pentagon and goaded them with the most vicious personal slander. Many of the signs carried by a small number of militants . . . are too obscene to print."

May 16, 1970 story in the Pomona Progress Bulletin recounted how on May 15, Col. Bowen Smith, head of Claremont Men’s College’s ROTC program, was spat on by protesters as he went to his campus office.

AP story about a Northwestern University student, apparently under surveillance by the FBI for many months, who had been observed spitting on a mid-shipman in uniform.

June 18, 1969 Panama News, printed an interview with General Chapman of the U.S. Marines, in which he “confirmed stories of physical abuse," including spitting.

August 27, 1967 New York Times article by Neil Sheehan, as part of military training in the national guard, soldiers were actually being drilled by being spat on, abuse to which they were instructed not to respond.

March 14, 1968 column in the Bucks County Courier Times (and elsewhere), the head of the Congressional Medal of Honor Society, WWII Medalist Thomas J. Kelly, reveals that even Medal of Honor winners have been abused and “spat upon as ‘monsters.’" Kelly recounts how, in an appalling lack of decency, about 200 anti-war protesters showed up to harass the Medal of Honor winners at their annual dinner, held one year in Beverly Hills.

November 14, 1967 New York Times, Pulitzer-Prize winner Max Frankel quoted Jack Risoen, a California Democrat who runs a liquor store: “Last week I took my parents to an American Legion meeting–it was just a memorial service for the First World War dead and outside three kids spit on my father.”

Are those stories fictional?

[Martha]

I have no reason to think that these stories aren't true. It could very well have occurred, I just never observed it. I do recall after the war a number of people portraying vets as drug addicts and psychos, which is equally unfair. I also remember hearing stories about spitting and calling soldiers baby killers, but I don't remember when I heard the stories. I do know that the people I hung out with and who were against the war would never have dreamt of doing such a thing.

The only bad experience I ever had at any demonstration was a few days after the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision. A very large protest was organized in St. Cloud Minnesota and I was part of a very small counter protest, maybe 20 or 30 people. One of our group had his sign taken by a member of the pro life group, and then was hit with his sign several times. No one was hurt and the police intervened promptly. But it was scary for a while.

[missionfinder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martha I have no reason to think that these stories aren't true. It could very well have occurred, I just never observed it. I do recall after the war a number of people portraying vets as drug addicts and psychos, which is equally unfair. I also remember hearing stories about spitting and calling soldiers baby killers, but I don't remember when I heard the stories. I do know that the people I hung out with and who were against the war would never have dreamt of doing such a thing. The only bad experience I ever had at any demonstration was a few days after the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision. A very large protest was organized in St. Cloud Minnesota and I was part of a very small counter protest, maybe 20 or 30 people. One of our group had his sign taken by a member of the pro life group, and then was hit with his sign several times. No one was hurt and the police intervened promptly. But it was scary for a while.

Glad nothing came of it. Physical force, imho, is not an appropriate means to show one's opinion.

[redduck]

Quote:

Originally Posted by missionfinder I made a big mistake and I apologize for it. I should have known my place, not disagreed with anybody, shut up, and accepted that only the only allowed voice here is from the left, and I'll be labeled and analyzed as an "insecure", "kool-aid drinking", "right winger", right wing bingo playing, Rush Limbaugh listener when I don't agree with it. It won't happen again. Peace bros, and don't trust anyone over 30.

Yeah, it will happen again.
And, in that long list of articles that you reprinted, I don't think hippies were mentioned as the spitters.

[Gone4Good]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redduck And, in that long list of articles that you reprinted, I don't think hippies were mentioned as the spitters.

Yeah, I'm sure they were Neocons!

[redduck]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go Yeah, I'm sure they were Neocons!

OK, A Mere 3 Yrs to Go:

I had to Google "Neocons."

"An intellectual and political movement in favor of political, economic, and social conservatism that arose in opposition to the perceived liberalism of the 1960s"

Yeah, I'm sure the Neocons didn't do any spitting. I would have bet my DODFX fund on it. But, truly, do you, or anyone else know who actually did the spitting? (I actually hate spitting, hate to see people spit on the sidewalk, wish baseball players didn't do it).

Sorry you had to spend so long on the telephone--must have been a Karma thing.

[Patrick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go Natural gas is scarce, and getting more so - not really a long-term solution. Solar can not be made to commercial scale. "Huge" solar plants run 50MW compared with 1,000 MW coal & nuclear plants. Wind is a viable option that is being aggressively exploited, but wind resources are limited and not terribly reliable. There are really no more hydro resources available in the U.S. and environmentalists want many of the existing dams torn down. Tidal generators are new and as yet unproven. Nuclear & coal has to be part of the solution if we actually want power (maybe to plug in those electric cars).

How about ethanol? Easily made from corn, which can be grown on the former tobacco fields in the south. Most gasoline vehicles can be converted without too much hassle to run on ethanol. It can be delivered from the same service stations we have now. Support American farmers!

[Gone4Good]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick How about ethanol? Easily made from corn, which can be grown on the former tobacco fields in the south. Most gasoline vehicles can be converted without too much hassle to run on ethanol. It can be delivered from the same service stations we have now. Support American farmers!

Not sold on ethanol. Some studies indicate that it takes more energy to grow and produce ethanol than is released by burning it. Other studies question whether the US has enough farm land to grow the crops required to make enough of the stuff - possibly why some allege ethanol production in Brazil is decimating the rain forest. While automobiles can be easily converted to run on ethanol, our energy infrastructure can not. Ethanol is water soluble and is therefore not compatible with our existing pipeline infrastructure. Ethanol production from corn & sugar crops also pits the economics of energy consumption against food consumption. Wealthy countries can afford to bid up the price of corn to fill their gas tanks, but then what will poor countries do to fill their bellies?

It's funny to watch people simultaneously wring their hands over greenhouse gas emissions AND $3 / gallon gasoline (the links show Rep. Dennis Kucinich complaining about both). The best thing in the world for people truly worried about fossil fuel emissions is higher prices for fossil fuels, and for energy in general. Nothing will get folks to replace their SUV's faster than $6 gas. Or turn their A/Cs off like $200/mwh power. Not only will usage go way down, but alternatives become economically viable - maybe even ethanol and solar power.

[bssc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScaredtoQuit Another guy I didn't know but read about became President of the United States.

Yes, but that was one SFSer who didn't inhale.

[bssc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo! Kimchi !!

Winter kimchi is much hotter than summer kimchi. And you must bury it in the ground for at least six weeks.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I like Kimchi, but the whole idea of fermenting anything that doesnt produce alcohol just seems somehow wrong.

[REWahoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bssc Winter kimchi is much hotter than summer kimchi. And you must bury it in the ground for at least six weeks.

Then it must have been "winter kimchi" I was exposed to since it bikini waxed my tongue, chemically peeled my sinus cavities and came close to burying me underground. :P

[bssc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo! Then it must have been "winter kimchi" I was exposed to since it bikini waxed my tongue, chemically peeled my sinus cavities and came close to burying me underground. :P

That would be it. When our maid prepared it she just dumped tons of red pepper into the pot. My parents loved it but we made them eat it outside because of the smell.

Glad that you survived. Also avoid the balut if your are in the Philippines.

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo! Then it must have been "winter kimchi" I was exposed to since it bikini waxed my tongue, chemically peeled my sinus cavities and came close to burying me underground. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by bssc Also avoid the balut if your are in the Philippines.

Hunh, in some parts of Oahu that's called "wimpy" kimchi. The winter stuff is when you can smell dinner from across the street, your eyes are watering too much to blow your nose, and you're having trouble swallowing. You have to be careful not to spew drop it on finished wood surfaces, too.

You don't have to leave America to try kimchi, baluts, wasabi, fish paste, furukaki... that type of spicy cuisine beats the heck outta trying to remember whether or not it's OK to put beans in chili!

[flipstress]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bssc Also avoid the balut if your are in the Philippines.

Nah, just ask for 'balut sa puti" and/or eat it with your eyes closed or in the dark--like in a moviehouse