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Old 10-11-2009, 08:20 AM   #2421
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Cuppa: I see that that IŽve botched the whole operation. Back to more practice....
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:41 AM   #2422
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Went dancing and realized that my ballroom teachers basically taught me ballroom to Salsa beats. That's why my Salsa looks very different from the moves from other Salsaleros. It could be good, or it could be bad because a few ladies did remark that, "Hey, I have never seen that move before."
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Old 10-11-2009, 12:06 PM   #2423
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I hereby nominate NW-Bound for the 2009 Darwin Awards!
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Old 10-11-2009, 12:24 PM   #2424
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Urban fauna.
I was sitting outside a couple days ago, about 30 minutes before sunrise, enjoying the latest pass of the Space Station.

I saw motion out of my peripheral vision and turned my head. As I moved, I scared the heck out of the Hawaiian short-eared owl that had been (very) quietly gliding by just a few feet above me. (I had a similar fright reaction.) I'm sure he could see my target profile heat signature, but I guess he hadn't quite yet decided whether he could pluck me off the lanai. We live at the end of a street surrounded by grassy vacant land with plenty of rats, mongoose, feral kitties, escaped bunnies, chameleons, and other critters that comprise yummy owl cuisine. So maybe he was wondering if I was worth adding to his diet. Or maybe he was wondering if our pet bunny was outside with me too.

I've lived here nearly 20 years and I've only seen these owls twice. Maybe next time I'll sit a little closer to the house, under the lanai roof...
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:47 PM   #2425
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Gotadimple, I'd probably flunk that photo class, I know not to use the zoom on my camera, it will always be fuzzy.
Cuppa,
That's the reason I took the class, got educated on what all those dials and buttons mean and then a short education about how to compose a photo.

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Old 10-11-2009, 02:17 PM   #2426
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Cuppa: Nice view. San Francisco Bay.....mmm Reminds me of Eric Clapton. IŽll try to send you some photos of my nearby surroundings. I live in the countryside. Can you believe that I havenŽt got the hang of all this IT stuff....?
http:http://www.early-retirement.org/attachments/photobucket/img_863686_0_aaeeae5384ec3b2f93f2ae6986c7e522.jpg//i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/vicentesolano/Foto0144.jpg
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Cuppa: I see that that IŽve botched the whole operation. Back to more practice....
Here ya go, Vicente.
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Old 10-11-2009, 05:22 PM   #2427
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Went to the grocery store, they rearranged the produce section. Had to ask where things were.
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Old 10-11-2009, 05:40 PM   #2428
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Urban fauna. Red tailed hawk? He stayed there a long time, looked about the size of a large house cat. Gotadimple, I'd probably flunk that photo class, I know not to use the zoom on my camera, it will always be fuzzy.

The bird was looking in the direction of this scene.
He's probably just envious of those other flying things he's watching (F/A-18 Hornets).

I would be.
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Old 10-11-2009, 05:44 PM   #2429
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Got up at o'dark thirty to volunteer at a fundraiser breakfast. Helped out with everything but cooking.
Hanging out doing nothing but surfing x 2 and watching Science channel. The killer bee special was unnerving.
Now there is a special about an English guy named Daniel who can recite Pi to 22,000 digits, with no mistakes. Wow! He's in Vegas playing blackjack and is attempting card counting. Dealer had a 10 showing. He was dealt 2 sevens up, split them, got another 7 up, split that to a third hand, and then got 21s on all hands. Even the dealer was astounded. Fact or fiction?
Update: dh2b is asleep sitting up, hand still holding the mouse.
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Old 10-11-2009, 10:04 PM   #2430
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Heh heh heh...

Pat myself on the back for making another provocative post with an accompanying heart-stopping photo which elicited quite a few responses.

Heh heh heh...

I am preparing a lengthy response off-line, and could not contain myself smiling and giggling. My wife had to ask what I was typing. Hang on a little longer, my men and women...
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Old 10-11-2009, 10:11 PM   #2431
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Hang on a little longer...
Your photo indicates you've been doing quite a bit of that yourself.
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:43 AM   #2432
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Call me frugal, heck even call me cheap. But I would not climb up on that ladder until spending several hours contemplating my set up. I first asked myself if the ladder/scaffold collapsed or if I fell off it, would it hurt as much or more than the huge kidney stone that I suffered? See picture posted earlier in this same thread. Would the incident be more potentially lethal than the 9mm piece of calcium oxalate? The answers were "Yes" to both questions, hence I took every precaution.

Following were the potential dangers.

1) The ladder collapsing.
2) The scaffold collapsing.
3) The top of the ladder sliding sideways on the wall.
4) The ladder falling backwards.
5) The ladder feet sliding off the scaffold platform.
6) The ladder feet pushing on the scaffold causing it to slide away from the wall.
7) The ladder feet pushing on the scaffold causing it to tip and fall away from the wall.
8) I fell off the ladder.


Now let's consider each peril.

1) The ladder collapsing.

My 20-ft aluminum extension ladder was in good shape with no corrosion, no weakness. It is rated for 225 lbs, quite a bit more than my weight. Check.

By the way, one of my friends who was on the obese side at 250lbs broke a rung of his rotted wooden ladder. Thank goodness it was only a short ladder he used to hang Xmas lights on the roof overhang of his single-story house, and he only hobbled for a week or two.

2) The scaffold collapsing.

This was the first time I rented a scaffold. I didn't know its weight rating, but this was a professional grade the same as home builders used. The blue end sections are 1-5/8" steel tubes.

Its weakest component would be the horizontal aluminum platform, but it was far sturdier than the ladder, being rated for two workers standing on one plank (500lbs load).

3) The top of the ladder sliding horizontally (sideways) on the wall.

This was a real danger in this situation. My lot is on a high point with a commanding view of the surround, and subject to a lot of strong winds. Though I would not work on a windy day, a sudden wind gust could easily blow me and the ladder skidding sideways. This was prevented by two long ropes tied to the top of the ladder with the other ends of the ropes secured to the deck railings on opposite sides of the deck. Picture the ropes as forming an inverted V with the apex 25 ft high and the base about 100 ft apart, and the ladder at the center of this inverted V. The ropes were rated at 100 lbs, and this should be sufficient.

4) The ladder falling backwards.

This is seen most often in commercials showing a guy clutching the ladder as both fall backwards away from the wall. I seriously doubt that many real-life accidents were like this. If one sets up the ladder too close to the wall, one will not feel safe at all the moment he climbs up. The angle must be enough so that one can lean forward towards the ladder to prevent falling backwards if neither of his hands could grab the ladder. Too much leaning would cause the next danger however, when the ladder feet skid away from the wall.

5) The ladder feet sliding off the scaffold platform.

The ladder feet sliding away from the wall is the most frequently occuring accident. This is not at all surprising, as it is easy to over-lean the ladder in order to feel safe from falling backwards.

One can spend the time to read the following analysis involving friction coefficients between the ladder feet and its supporting base:

http://www.triodyne.com/SAFETY~1/SB_V12N1.pdf.

Or one can just obey this following OSHA and industrial practice. The ladder feet should be placed 1 ft from the wall for each 4 ft of height, or each 4 ft of ladder length. If you want to split hair, the first condition means the ladder is 14 deg off vertical, and the second means 14.5 deg.

In my case, I took no chances and built a wooden base with a slot for the ladder feet to sit into. The ladder feet and its base were then STRAPPED to the scaffold platform supporting the ladder. A 500-lb strap was employed. This is way overkill considering the required force that is described next. Check.

Another significant reason to not have the ladder feet resting on the scaffold plank was that I did not trust the plank laminated wood deck. The rental units were old and the wood got soft. I wanted to transfer the ladder load to the two plank aluminum side rails with the ladder base. Note that this arrangement does not show up well in the photo.

6) The ladder feet pushing on the scaffold causing it to slide away from the wall.

Ignoring the weight of the ladder at the moment, and just think of a 200-lb person on top of the ladder (my weight is less than that). What is the sliding force at the ladder feet? At the recommended leaning angle of 14 deg, application of "sum of forces and sum of moments being zero" principles yields a sliding force of 50 lbs. Can this cause the scaffold to skid?

The 2-level scaffold altogether weighted 400 lbs (4 planks, 4 end sections, 4 cross braces). Add to that our ladder load of 200 lbs. I didn't know the friction coefficient between the open-ended frame tubes and my deck, but I knew that the scaffold tubular feet left O-shaped indentations on the wood deck. There was no way a 50-lbs force could drag this entire 600-lb structure across the deck.

And by the way, I wonder if any idiot would put caster wheels on the scaffold feet in an application like this. Heh, heh, heh...

7) The scaffold tipping backwards from the wall.

Is this is the scenario imagined by Calmloki, or is it case 6? Heh, heh, heh... As I said, I envisioned all these scary scenarios myself to make sure they wouldn't happen. Heh, heh, heh...

Can the above side force of 50lbs applied at the top of the scaffold cause it to tip over? Let's see.

The height-to-width profile of the scaffold is 2 to 1. The ensemble center of mass couldn't be too far from its geometric center, so that the lever arm ratio of the tipping force to scaffold weight is now 4 to 1. The force ratio is 50 lbs to 400 lbs or 1 to 8. So, no tip over. Check.

But, but, but, to be sure, I used 2 ropes to tie the mid-point of the ladder to the chimney. Pretensioning of the ropes took away much of the aforementioned 50-lb skid force, thus helping all items 4, 5, 6 and 7. More than that, another significant effect of the mid ropes was to apply a mild tension to the ladder, keeping it from feeling "bouncy". Though the ladder rating was quite adequate given manufacturer's liabilities and all that, a long extension ladder always bounces. This has extreme psychological effects, let me tell ya. That brings us to the last point.

8) Me falling off the ladder.

Despite all the precautions, there was a lot of apprehension when I was on that ladder. Throughout the entire "experiment", the whole structure was solid.

The shakiness of the ladder was due to my "PIO" (Pilot Induced Oscillations) more than anything else. I was afraid I might get a heart attack and fell off. What if I slipped or lost grip of the ladder, despite always hugging the ladder with one arm while the other hand was holding the brush? So, I had a safety belt that I clipped onto a ladder rung at waist height when I reached the working height.

I was fully convinced that the whole structure was quite study and safe. I also took extreme precaution. The photo was made of only one setup. The chimney was wide enough that my arm reaches could not cover its width, despite alternating the brush between left and right hands. So at each ladder height, I had to shift the ladder position to left and right. Then, I retracted the ladder extension to lower its height. Rinse and repeat. Each setup required unknotting then refastening all the ropes and clamps. No short cuts were taken to set up the ladder at each position. That's why it took a long day to hand brush that chimney. And that was just the chimney facade and not even its sides. However, I won't bore you with the set up for rest of the house.

Another note: In the photo, the top of the ladder as shown is the same height as the smoke alarm that I had to replace the battery once. However, the smoke alarm is over the loft area, which is about the same height as the scaffold top. So, I had to bring the ladder up to the loft and extend it just as far. Though the scaffold was quite stable, it did not offer the psychological comfort of the larger loft, even though it offered just a good a base. There was still the danger of the ladder top skidding sideway sending me tumbling to the living space 25ft below. So, I had to use guy ropes to secure the ladder in a similar manner.

Now, if the spot lights over the living space burn out, I would not be able to use my 20-ft ladder by itself. I would need a scaffold/ladder to change them, or get one of the super long light-bulb-changer-on-a-poles.

Conclusions: Despite all the precaution, calculations, and common sense, it is difficult to overcome the fear of height. I have less acrophobia than most people, but when up on that ladder, it felt scarier than one should rationally be. The reason was that the scaffold was set up on the deck that was more than 6ft above the ground which continues to slope down (it is the side of a hill). When I was up there, I could see more of the highway that was 1/4 mile away, and I could hear faraway birds chirping. But it was not something you enjoyed on a ladder. I always know I can never be a mountain climber.

Think about it! Anyone can dance on a stepstool 2 ft off the ground. Raise it to 20 ft, and most would need something to grab or they would fall. It's all in your head, folks. Now, how did the carpenters build my home? I never thought of asking them, but I will the next chance I see them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calmloki View Post
Hey there death wish! Bet you would have felt silly as the ladder pushed the top of the scaffold out from the house, leaving you flat up against the ladder and chimney for a moment before the ladder rotated around the guy rope...
... what part of AZ?
I hope that I address your concern with the above post.

This is in the eastern part of the state, the region called the Mogollon Rim (see Wikipedia), with elevations of 6000-7000 ft. The nearest incorporated town is Showlow. A bit more to the east and closer to New Mexico is a place I like but couldn't afford called Greer with elevation from 8000-9000 ft. I saw your recent thread of a tour through AZ, but you miss this part. It's green and "wet" (for AZ that is), but of course you have plenty of that in Oregon.

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Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
NW-Bound, a couple more home maintenance projects similar to your scaffold and ladder job and the "RV" below will be perfect for you:
No thanks! Even for a guy like me, that RV has no headroom. Where are the bathroom, kitchen, toilet? Save that for Dracula!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CuppaJoe View Post
... figured you were on a trip (maybe to Paris)
That would be nice! However, I wanted to see my wallet re-inflate a bit more. Saving money on this staining job also helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIREdreamer View Post
Holy cr@p NW-bound, you could not pay me enough money to climb on that ladder!
Obviously, $4K would not be enough for you! I am hoping the amount I saved will be even more, as this hand-stained coat should last longer than a mere "glazing" a painter would spray.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird5825 View Post
I hope this was a 1 shot deal for you, and you concluded the following:

1. Never again ...
No, perhaps not the same way. One can always make improvements.

I saw that Lowe's has a 32-ft extension ladder that allows me to go up to the top in one fell swoop. The fear factor is not reduced however, and might be even worse. Such a long ladder may be even more "springy" when you are at its center, I wonder.

Or how about 3 levels of scaffold, hence allowing a shorter ladder? At 4 levels of scaffold, I would need no ladder. Perhaps this foursome stack was the way the carpenters did it. The scaffold stacking can be done by one guy, in fact I built up the 2 levels myself. However, one may lose his balance by acrophobia, or end up dropping a scaffold component. I can visualize a scaffold piece bouncing off the deck and crashing through the glass doors. To go higher, I would need a helper, but my wife only felt comfortable going up to the 1st level. To stack the Nth level, you need to bring its components up to the N-1 level, then stand on this lower N-1 level to stack it. The only difference from erecting the first level on the ground is acrophobia.

I've got a few years to ponder the next setup. Come on! This is nothing compared to tall buildings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westernskies View Post
Look like we need to nominate you for the Extended Reach Ladder Hall of Fame. Here are some of your fellow Hall of Famers; from the International Division:
Eh, I have seen these photos before.

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Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
I hereby nominate NW-Bound for the 2009 Darwin Awards!
Gee! No thanks for your vote of "no confidence". I wish I could invite you up my ladder after you have read my scaffold analysis to convince yourself that all would be well, as it indeed turned out. One must conquer his/her fear, just as with investment. Buy, buy, buy, I said time and time again late last year and earlier this year. By the way, congrats on your Au purchases a few months ago.
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:56 AM   #2433
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SaraW: Thanks for the push.
This one is for is for all to see.... I hope.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:27 AM   #2434
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Photography class field trip today. Here's part of my assignment:
A good source for studying composition is Gabriel M.A.'s photostream. If you subscribe to his RSS Feed, you will see his shots at the rate of 2-4 a day.

He is particularly good with black & white... well, monotone.
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Old 10-12-2009, 11:48 AM   #2435
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Gee! No thanks for your vote of "no confidence".
I stand corrected, and congratulate you on the in-depth nature of your risk assessment!

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
I wish I could invite you up my ladder after you have read my scaffold analysis to convince yourself that all would be well, as it indeed turned out. One must conquer his/her fear, just as with investment.
Thanks NW, but I think I'll join Vicente on the beach in Spain!
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:07 PM   #2436
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Call me frugal, heck even call me cheap. But I would not climb up on that ladder until spending several hours contemplating my set up....

This is in the eastern part of the state, the region called the Mogollon Rim (see Wikipedia), with elevations of 6000-7000 ft. The nearest incorporated town is Showlow. A bit more to the east and closer to New Mexico is a place I like but couldn't afford called Greer with elevation from 8000-9000 ft. I saw your recent thread of a tour through AZ, but you miss this part. It's green and "wet" (for AZ that is), but of course you have plenty of that in Oregon.....
Wuff. OK, not Deathwish; Frugal Safety belt & Calculator Guy.

Show Low is a good looking size town at 12,000 and the trees & country look a lot like the Sisters area of Oregon or Durango Colorado - a driving video on Youtube shows Sedona-esq red rocks - maybe better rock features that Oregon or Colorado. That 18" of snow in March seems a bit brisky - you using your place as a summer retreat sounds pretty smart. 125 miles from PHX is a bit further out than we are thinking. OTOH, Bend Oregon had a low of 22 degrees last night, so eastern Oregon and a close sunny clime are no more attractive.
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:46 PM   #2437
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Rebalanced my portfolio today, down from 64/36 back to 55/45. Call me a dirty market timer, but I have a feeling the market will struggle to get past Dow 10,000 for a while.
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:49 PM   #2438
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Call me a dirty market timer, but I have a feeling the market will struggle to get past Dow 10,000 for a while.
You're a dirty market timer
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Old 10-12-2009, 02:07 PM   #2439
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A cool 45 F day, some wind, a bit choppy on the lake, still made for great kayaking. Then to e diner for a nice juicy bacon cheeseburger with raw onions and a few cups of mud to wash it all down.
Soon be time to light a fire in the stove.


--- On NW-Bound's scaffolding -- Numbers is good to do. The tie off of the ladder to chimney was real good, likely enabled a large dose of luck for not tipping that scaffold ladder contraption. Glad you survived the experiment.
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Old 10-12-2009, 02:16 PM   #2440
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Took advantage of dh2b...<pregnant pause> ...um...having the day off to get some outdoor stuff done.
Barely managed to keep the chainsaw out of his hands.
Got a lot of little things done - putting away lawn chairs, setting up the upper porch firewood holder, moved the snowblowers up to the garage and deck, yadda yadda yadda.

Used some leaves, snipped from my homegrown aquarium Romaine lettuce, on a tuna sub.
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