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Old 05-12-2010, 08:10 AM   #101
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I do get incredibly irritated whenthose who for whatever reason do not have children grouse about the public cost of supporting the next generation, as if children are a personal consumer product. Such grousers are classic "free riders" who were happy to take but are unwilling to give.
Oh? I get irritated when people treat children like some type of public commodity for which society in general is responsible. Children are people, and providing for each of them (including their proper education and socialization) is a parental responsibility.
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:19 AM   #102
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On the contrary, how many childfree people regret not having kids? By definition, being childfree means not ever wanting to have kids. Childfree people such as myself have thought this through and know it is the best decision for us.
No It means you don't have them. Many many people try and are unsuccessful.
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:20 AM   #103
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Lots of very fine people do not have children. I have no idea if Marriage/and or children is "better", but unquestionably those who do raise children are in effect "paying back" the cost of their own upbringing by supporting the next generation.

I do get incredibly irritated when those who for whatever reason do not have children grouse about the public cost of supporting the next generation, as if children are a personal consumer product. Such grousers are classic "free riders" who were happy to take but are unwilling to give.
I get incredibly irritated at those who make the personal lifestyle choice to have children then expect everyone else who had no say in that choice to help pay for that choice. They, not us childfree people, are the "free riders" who are happy to take taxpayer dollars and other support from the childfree to support their personal lifestyle choice to have children but not bear the full cost of making that personal lifestyle choice.

Those who do not have children are still "paying back" the cost of their own upbringing by supporting the next generation through their taxes to raise and educate other people's children. Some of us without children also have jobs (i.e. teachers, daycare workers) and do volunteer work (I do) which help raise and educate other people's children.
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:22 AM   #104
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I picked the right spouse! Someone that shares my beliefs in living LBYM's and also was a hard worker.
Same here. We were both hard workers, but then we moved to the "lumpen slum" and became slackers.

About our LBYM way, we are working to change that.
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:25 AM   #105
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Such grousers are classic "free riders" who were happy to take but are unwilling to give.
You do realize you just pushed a hot button, yes?

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I get incredibly irritated at those who make the personal lifestyle choice to have children then expect everyone else who had no say in that choice to help pay for that choice. They, not us childfree people, are the "free riders" who are happy to take taxpayer dollars and other support from the childfree to support their personal lifestyle choice to have children but not bear the full cost of making that personal lifestyle choice.
I used to think this way and there's some merit to it in principle. But then I came to just accept it based on the fact that other people's kids will be paying my SS in the future. Get to work, sonny!

I think the sooner we realize that life isn't always fair and focus on what is good in our lives, the bitterness (and the health-damaging stress it produces) can fade.

It's getting a little hot in here, folks.
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:30 AM   #106
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I used to think this way and there's some merit to it in principle. But then I came to just accept it based on the fact that other people's kids will be paying my SS in the future. Get to work, sonny!
Need young workers to change diapers of those folks in nursing homes and to spoon feed them. Else, have to loosen up immigration. Lots of diapers to change when these baby boomers hit the nursing homes en masse.
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:31 AM   #107
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I get incredibly irritated at those who make the personal lifestyle choice to have children then expect everyone else who had no say in that choice to help pay for that choice. They, not us childfree people, are the "free riders" who are happy to take taxpayer dollars and other support from the childfree to support their personal lifestyle choice to have children but not bear the full cost of making that personal lifestyle choice.

Those who do not have children are still "paying back" the cost of their own upbringing by supporting the next generation through their taxes to raise and educate other people's children. Some of us without children also have jobs (i.e. teachers, daycare workers) and do volunteer work (I do) which help raise and educate other people's children.
Owning a boat is a personal lifestyle choice. Having children is different. It is an investment in the future that any society needs. Forget taxes. Anyone who wants to "retire" in any society, no matter how primitive, has a vested interest in the willingness of the next generation to take care of the retiree. When Ugh the caveman got old, he depended on offspring to feed him

Of course if you want other peoples children to be willing to help you when you no longer work, I suggest taking a very close interest in them. Any form of money and wealth depends on the next generation to turn it into food and services
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:33 AM   #108
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Any form of money and wealth depends on the next generation to turn it into food and services
+10.

Else, people can take their gold bullion to a remote island to enjoy their wealth there.

PS. I am done for now. I see the "Thread Terminator" coming round the corner.
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:33 AM   #109
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No It means you don't have them. Many many people try and are unsuccessful.
No. ChildFREE people don't want to have kids. ChildLESS people are those who want to have kids but can't have them. A common mistake made by many people.
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:41 AM   #110
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Owning a boat is a personal lifestyle choice. Having children is different. It is an investment in the future that any society needs. Forget taxes. Anyone who wants to "retire" in any society, no matter how primitive, has a vested interest in the willingness of the next generation to take care of the retiree. When Ugh the caveman got old, he depended on offspring to feed him

Of course if you want other peoples children to be willing to help you when you no longer work, I suggest taking a very close interest in them. Any form of money and wealth depends on the next generation to turn it into food and services
Do you think the 16-year-old girl who willingly gets knocked up (because she thinks having a baby is "cute" and will make her life "complete") is making an investment in the future? No way! She is making a lifestyle choice as well as creating a burden on society.

Ugh the caveman did not have a retirement account to pay others to take care of him, so he had to depend on others to care for him for free.

Your logic reminds me of anyone trying to justify a Ponzi scheme by needing to keep recruiting others to enter the scheme so it will not collapse. We don't have a shortage of people.
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:45 AM   #111
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Do you think the 16-year-old girl who willingly gets knocked up (because she thinks having a baby is "cute" and will make her life "complete") is making an investment in the future? No way! She is making a lifestyle choice as well as creating a burden on society.

Ugh the caveman did not have a retirement account to pay others to take care of him, so he had to depend on others to care for him for free.

Your logic reminds me of anyone trying to justify a Ponzi scheme by needing to keep recruiting others to enter the scheme so it will not collapse. We don't have a shortage of people.
I suggest taking a special interest in the child of the 16 year old lest you eventually find yourself signing a retirement account withdrawal slip with his knife at your throat, or seeing it consumed in the taxes to keep him in prison.
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:46 AM   #112
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I used to think this way and there's some merit to it in principle. But then I came to just accept it based on the fact that other people's kids will be paying my SS in the future. Get to work, sonny!

I think the sooner we realize that life isn't always fair and focus on what is good in our lives, the bitterness (and the health-damaging stress it produces) can fade.

It's getting a little hot in here, folks.
SS is a Ponzi scheme, at least the retirement portion of it. I would love to have had some/most of my SS dollars back so I could invest them myself so I could opt out of it (the retirement portion of it). I had no choice but to be part of it. It doesn't mean I approve of it or the way it depends on creating more involuntary participants to keep it solvent (which it isn't).

At least I have stopped paying into it since I retired 18 months ago at age 45. This means my SS benefit will be reduced but I sure like not paying into it any more.
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:47 AM   #113
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This thread is rapidly deteriorating, folks, and if it continues it will be closed.

Final warning.
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:50 AM   #114
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I suggest taking a special interest in the child of the 16 year old lest you eventually find yourself signing a retirement account withdrawal slip with his knife at your throat, or seeing it consumed in the taxes to keep him in prison.
I would rather see that pregnancy aborted or the kid given up for adoption, or have society not encourage such irresponsible behavior (i.e. more easily available contraception, stop glamorizing teen pregnancy) to begin with.
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:20 AM   #115
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Scrabbler1. When I quoted "Marry the right person", you objected saying "many" people are happier unmarried. Fair enough, but when I said having kids is best for "many" people, you strongly disagreed. It is not hard for me to understand your points and even agree with some of them, but as often the case, the passion you have for your own arguments appear to get in the way of understanding the other side. Anyway, I think it is a good thread.
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:48 AM   #116
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I would rather see that pregnancy aborted or the kid given up for adoption, or have society not encourage such irresponsible behavior (i.e. more easily available contraception, stop glamorizing teen pregnancy) to begin with.
All forms of "taking a special interest" and all take money. Most of Europe actually handles this very well.
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:50 AM   #117
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This thread is rapidly deteriorating, folks, and if it continues it will be closed.

Final warning.

I do think the issue of the role of the next generation in the ability to retire early is a legitimate issue
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:04 AM   #118
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I do think the issue of the role of the next generation in the ability to retire early is a legitimate issue
I was more speaking of the increasingly rancorous and heated tone of the exchange, not so much the subject itself even though we've beaten it to death already.
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:06 AM   #119
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As a general rule, we do not simply "beat it to death". We want to beat it to a pulp.

What ya do all day, indeed.
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:10 AM   #120
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Owning a boat is a personal lifestyle choice. Having children is different. It is an investment in the future that any society needs.
On a planetary level we're overinvesting, to the extent that we're dooming ourselves if something isn't done soon. You can't keep expanding exponentially in a world with finite resources. There are two solutions: less kids or more deaths. If we don't make a choice, reality is going to make it for us.

Okay, now I'll stop whining.

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