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Old 11-29-2017, 12:47 AM   #61
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Not true out here where I live. We're 95% homeowners and we vote everything through because we want the enhanced lifestyle.

For what it's worth, if you cause the operating cost of my rental to go up I raise your rent. So if the property taxes go up it goes up for everybody. Homeowners directly and renters indirectly

I thought Jarvis was to have control over any increases in our property taxes. I wasn't actually voting back then so I'm not sure if it was in the original bill that property taxes would never go up more than 2% a year

Reasons why I won't leave the area:
- capped increases
- moderate year round weather
- great art / music / symphony / opera
- family
- Bart ride to international airport
- open area (border state park / unusable terrain -- too steep to build)
- boating
Boating. In Clayton?? .
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:38 AM   #62
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Have lived in the Midwest my entire life. Raised in Michigan (n. of Detroit), lived 9 years in north central-Illinois, and 2 years in Omaha, until our move here, 30 years ago. We live in a bedroom community just outside a 1M + city in the greater OH/IN/IL/KY area. Pro sports teams and great hospitals near by. Our home is valued at 200k and our property taxes are $900 a YEAR, soon to be $650 a year with senior exemptions. Low crime, lots to do, places to walk and ride bikes. Steady employment, and inexpensive housing, although on the rise for the last 5+years. I would move back to Omaha in a heartbeat. Just like a smaller version of where we are now, except the property taxes are higher- the same with Michigan. We have milder winters (MI and NE were brutal), but still snowbird to the south for an extra 100 days a year of sunshine/shorts weather. Best of both worlds, in my opinion. Have considered moving south full time, and could save money on housing consolidation. But we enjoy our current lifestyle and have no intentions of moving in the near future.
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Old 11-29-2017, 08:07 AM   #63
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D F W. The military brought me here in 1972 and after a 4 year interruption, 1977-1981 we returned and have remained. No mortgage and no debt. The chief complaint is population growth. Where are all these people coming from? It's hot, but I like it. My only alternative would be to move back to New Orleans where I was born. But, at this point, not likely.
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:42 AM   #64
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The unfortunate problem with Clayton and the rest of northeastern Contra Costa County is that you are down wind of the refineries and the cancer rates are elevated. You also have to go through densely populated areas with ridiculous traffic to get to all that culture and the airport. BART is interesting in theory, but the filthy, urine soaked stations, worn out trains, and the crime make it an unacceptable choice for me.

I prefer Clayton from 50 plus years ago - just a few ranches back then. Brentwood was an agricultural town and produced apricots and peaches IIRC, which my mother used to buy in quantity to can. I did consider Alamo when I took a job in Oakland in the 90's because of the commute. Would not live anywhere out there today. Don't love the South Bay, but the convenience factor is important to me.

To each his/her own...
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Old 11-29-2017, 12:17 PM   #65
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The unfortunate problem with Clayton and the rest of northeastern Contra Costa County is that you are down wind of the refineries and the cancer rates are elevated. You also have to go through densely populated areas with ridiculous traffic to get to all that culture and the airport. BART is interesting in theory, but the filthy, urine soaked stations, worn out trains, and the crime make it an unacceptable choice for me.

I prefer Clayton from 50 plus years ago - just a few ranches back then. Brentwood was an agricultural town and produced apricots and peaches IIRC, which my mother used to buy in quantity to can. I did consider Alamo when I took a job in Oakland in the 90's because of the commute. Would not live anywhere out there today. Don't love the South Bay, but the convenience factor is important to me.

To each his/her own...
Yes, the entire East Bay is a hellhole, especially Alamo, with its median home price of $1.6M. That's why people like Steph Curry who can't afford to live anywhere else buy homes there.
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:39 PM   #66
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Boating. In Clayton?? .
Bay or estuary (says another Bear) .... one day we'll get the hatchet back

We border both WC & Concord, 6 miles to Lesther Center where the symphanies, opera, music is unless you go to Sleep Train Pavilion (in Clayton with Concord mailbox). Obviously it's been decades since you've been here but hopefully people won't want to move here keeping our lots large & crime low .... we did have a murder 9 yrs ago and maybe another this month .... awaiting PD report
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Old 11-29-2017, 03:33 PM   #67
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Yes, the entire East Bay is a hellhole, especially Alamo, with its median home price of $1.6M. That's why people like Steph Curry who can't afford to live anywhere else buy homes there.
Well, I grew up in the inner ring suburbs, and I would not live there today. Crowded, dirty, and too much crime. Danville and Alamo are still very nice places, I just don't want to deal with the congestion and the lack of access. There are crime issues north of Walnut Creek on the 4 and 680 corridors and in Dublin/Pleasanton on the 580 corridor. Not a lot of that has migrated south. We are just too far away from Richmond, Oakland, and Hayward.

When I worked in Oakland, most of the other managers lived in Contra Costa County on the other side of the hills or Southern Alameda County. Only one person actually lived in Oakland.
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:09 PM   #68
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Well, I grew up in the inner ring suburbs, and I would not live there today. Crowded, dirty, and too much crime. Danville and Alamo are still very nice places, I just don't want to deal with the congestion and the lack of access. There are crime issues north of Walnut Creek on the 4 and 680 corridors and in Dublin/Pleasanton on the 580 corridor. Not a lot of that has migrated south. We are just too far away from Richmond, Oakland, and Hayward.

When I worked in Oakland, most of the other managers lived in Contra Costa County on the other side of the hills or Southern Alameda County. Only one person actually lived in Oakland.
I am not sure where you get your impressions of the various cities from, but...

As far as congestion, San Jose is the #5 most congested city in the country:
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/...steady-at.html

And as far as crime, Clayton is one of the safest suburbs in the Bay Area, along with other East Bay cities like Kensington, San Ramon, Orinda, Moraga, Danville, Pleasanton, and Dublin:
https://www.niche.com/places-to-live...co-metro-area/

Some South Bay cities made this list but the majority of the safest suburbs are located in other parts of the Bay Area.
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Old 11-29-2017, 09:56 PM   #69
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San Jose as the entire city is poor and there are some crime activities, mostly around east part of the city. The place where I live (Cambrian) is very nice and safe. But unfortunately we're getting our fair share out of city's problems, like the shortage of police officers or fire fighters. This is one of the reasons, why real estate here is a bit cheaper than neighbor Los Gatos, Saratoga, etc.
As regarding East Bay: there are some nice places to live, like my favorite Walnut Creek, Danville, San Ramon. But overall, the crime level is definitely higher than around South Bay, air is more polluted, traffic is horrible and prices are sky high (though still lower than Peninsula or South Bay). However, as I said there are some decent places to live over there. Though not much different in terms of COL, compared to other parts of Bay Area.
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:37 PM   #70
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As regarding East Bay: there are some nice places to live, like my favorite Walnut Creek, Danville, San Ramon. But overall, the crime level is definitely higher than around South Bay, air is more polluted, traffic is horrible and prices are sky high (though still lower than Peninsula or South Bay). However, as I said there are some decent places to live over there. Though not much different in terms of COL, compared to other parts of Bay Area.
Most of those general statements are pretty easily disprovable with actual stats like the ones in my previous posts, especially crime rates, traffic and home prices, but it is your life and your retirement so it seems like you would be happier some place else entirely. The home prices tend to be highest and traffic the worst along the commute routes where the jobs are concentrated and those are mainly in the city of San Francisco and the South Bay. If you are retired you don't have to drive to the job centers during commute times. If you don't like any of the cities in the East Bay there's always the North Bay. The median home price in Napa is $581K, Sonoma is $686K - both a lot less than $1.5M.

"The Bay Area has reached another record high for congestion on the roads; in fact, it's an 80 percent increase since 2010..."It is absolutely directly related to the economy and to the jobs/housing imbalance that we have in the region, that our two biggest job centers are San Francisco and Silicon Valley," said John Goodwin, Metropolitan Transportation Commission.

Report: Bay Area freeway congestion hits new record | abc7news.com
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:45 PM   #71
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Bay or estuary (says another Bear) .... one day we'll get the hatchet back

We border both WC & Concord, 6 miles to Lesther Center where the symphanies, opera, music is unless you go to Sleep Train Pavilion (in Clayton with Concord mailbox). Obviously it's been decades since you've been here but hopefully people won't want to move here keeping our lots large & crime low .... we did have a murder 9 yrs ago and maybe another this month .... awaiting PD report
I think you are confusing me with Another Reader. I am sitting at the top of Keller Ridge as I type this. I agree that Clayton is great, but wish the commute traffic wasn’t so bad.
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:59 PM   #72
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traffic the worst along the commute routes where the jobs are concentrated and those are mainly in the city of San Francisco and the South Bay. If you are retired you don't have to drive to the job centers during commute times.
Well, traffic along 880 is officially recognized as one of the worst across US. 680 is also pretty bad during the rush hours.This is not exactly SF or South Bay. And I tend to agree that when you're retired you care less about the traffic, but the problem is I really don't remember the day time (may be Saturday early morning only), when 580 around Livermore is moving in both directions. But did I say that I actually like East Bay and in particular Walnut Creek?
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:30 AM   #73
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Well, traffic along 880 is officially recognized as one of the worst across US. 680 is also pretty bad during the rush hours.This is not exactly SF or South Bay. And I tend to agree that when you're retired you care less about the traffic, but the problem is I really don't remember the day time (may be Saturday early morning only), when 580 around Livermore is moving in both directions. But did I say that I actually like East Bay and in particular Walnut Creek?
You also made comments about the crime, traffic and air quality (I have never heard much on that either way) and home prices which do not seem to line up with any actual online stats. If you want to move to a lower cost of living area for retirement that is certainly a choice many retirees make. But if you like the Bay Area there are much less expensive, livable cities outside the South Bay and they aren't all more congested and crime ridden. Traffic isn't a problem in many areas, especially if you are retired and not driving during commute hours heading into SV or SF in the morning or outward bound at night. Concord is on Condé Nast Traveler's top 10 retirement places in the world, in part because it has the amenities of the Bay Area but is lower cost and is on the BART line.
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Old 11-30-2017, 06:40 AM   #74
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You also made comments about the crime, traffic and air quality (I have never heard much on that either way) and home prices which do not seem to line up with any actual online stats. If you want to move to a lower cost of living area for retirement that is certainly a choice many retirees make. But if you like the Bay Area there are much less expensive, livable cities outside the South Bay and they aren't all more congested and crime ridden. Traffic isn't a problem in many areas, especially if you are retired and not driving during commute hours heading into SV or SF in the morning or outward bound at night. Concord is on Condé Nast Traveler's top 10 retirement places in the world, in part because it has the amenities of the Bay Area but is lower cost and is on the BART line.
Your home prices are from May, include condo prices, and include counties like Napa, Solano and Sonoma, which I really don't consider part of the Bay Area. All those lists of places to live such as the one you cite are made up by people that have never been to most of them, pick a bunch of statistics, and write an article based on them. Pretty much worthless.

Concord and Pleasant Hill started out as low cost, working class communities. The populations have changed a bit, but they still are not places I would choose to live. An easy way to get a feel for the area is to look at the retail on Google maps. There is a Trader Joe's in Concord, and a tired mall in Pleasant Hill, but not much high end shopping in either city. Where are Nordstrom's and Whole Foods? Walnut Creek.

No disagreement that the corridor from Walnut Creek to San Ramon is a nice place to live. Compare the Costco in San Ramon to the one in Concord. Look at who is in the parking lots and what is sold in the stores. That's a lot more informative than Conde Naste.

I still would not choose to live there because of access in and out of the area and proximity by car to airports, the beach cities, and other amenities. Traffic on 680, especially at the 24 and 580 interchanges, is as bad time wise as it is down here. Commute traffic from the Central Valley clogs 580 and 680.

I won't argue with you about the air pollution. Given the prevailing wind, a lot of it ends up in the South Bay and some days are unpleasant. However, it's not anywhere near as bad as the Los Angeles area, where I find it hard to breathe on a typical day. And the winds that push the pollution south often suffice to clean out the entire Bay Area.

The crime down here is different, much of it gang related or property related. Stay out of the the bad neighborhoods in South Central and East San Jose, and you will be largely immune. Looking at Google maps, the retail has followed the money and supports my belief that most parts of the South Bay are good places to live. The quality and density of medical services is also excellent.

Would I move to the South Bay specifically to retire? No, the cost of living and congestion are big negatives. But my one story house on a big lot was bought almost 30 years ago, I have access to quality medical care, and it's an easy drive to the retail and services I want and need. I'm staying put for now.
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Old 11-30-2017, 08:03 AM   #75
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I'm in the Kansas City area, in a beautiful community of architects' originals around a small lake within a primarily blue-collar suburb. (Alex the Great's metrics about retail are pretty revealing: 6 Dollar Stores that I know of, in a population of 50,000, two Wal-Marts, mostly fast-food franchises other than that.) Since DS and DDIL are 3 hours away and they have my two granddaughters (and want more kids), I'm cheerfully stuck here. Will move near them in Assisted or Independent Living when I can no longer live on my own.

Even before I retired, I knew I'd stay here after retirement- I've been here since 2003, have friendships that go that far back, and have a good church community. DH and I did sell the McMansion in 2015, which was a good move- my current house is still bigger than I need but there's plenty of space for DS and DDIL when they visit, and it's definitely smaller than the McMansion and it shows in the lower utility bills and easier upkeep. I'm sure glad I don't have 5 bathrooms to clean anymore.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:16 AM   #76
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Granted Concord & Pleasant Hill tend towards mom & pop stores, the biggest hold Amazon could get on either city is Whole Foods 365 also those cities prefer farmers markets & produce stands. But I think the last line said it all ...Alex was looking for justification to stay put despite hating how taxes are raised to elevate their standard of living especially the next raise being their planned connection to Bart which is going there soon
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:18 AM   #77
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I live a few miles West of Weatherford Texas which is a nice sized county seat town about 30 miles west of Fort Worth Texas. We have deep, generational family roots here and are plugged in to the community.

Cost of living is very reasonable. We have all the shopping and restaurants we need, both chain and several good mom & pop restaurants.

Being just 30 miles from Fort Worth we are close enough to everything.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:44 AM   #78
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Granted Concord & Pleasant Hill tend towards mom & pop stores, the biggest hold Amazon could get on either city is Whole Foods 365 also those cities prefer farmers markets & produce stands. But I think the last line said it all ...Alex was looking for justification to stay put despite hating how taxes are raised to elevate their standard of living especially the next raise being their planned connection to Bart which is going there soon
Alex? I think you have your commenters mixed up.

No part of the Bay Area around here is as nice as it was 40 or 50 years ago. My father, who was born in Oakland, would have said the Bay Area was much nicer before WWII. Our local governments keep packing people in, building high density housing everywhere, so the negative trend is likely to continue.

I'm not looking for justification to stay. I'm locked into the house because of capital gains and the area has a lot of benefits compared to others. I would rent it out and move to the lower Peninsula or maybe to a beach town if I had my druthers, but that's out of the question.

Nobody is raising the standard of living by raising taxes. They tell you they are, but all the bright shiny objects could be funded using existing revenues.
The political critters want the new money to fund basic services so they can divert the existing revenue to fund whatever silly schemes their political and financial friends want.
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:03 AM   #79
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Your home prices are from May, include condo prices, and include counties like Napa, Solano and Sonoma, which I really don't consider part of the Bay Area.
They are called the North Bay -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_...cisco_Bay_Area). Many members here live in condos so I'm not sure why one would exclude those. If we move it would be to a condo or townhouse.

There are neighborhoods where you can't tell what is Walnut Creek, Concord or Pleasant Hill without looking at a map. The home prices in Concord are usually at least $200K less than Walnut Creek because of the address and school district. For retirees not needing the school district, it is one option to live in the area, maybe even right next door to a house with a WC address, and save $200K which also means lower property taxes. That was one of the points in the Conde Nast article, "Social Security checks still will go further here than in hipper Oakland or tonier Walnut Creek." I'm not sure if a Whole Foods 365 meets your standards of acceptable, but there is one in Concord, in a new shopping center with fountains: https://patch.com/california/concord...ment-showpiece

I don't live in either Concord or Clayton, but we considered those areas as well as wine country when we were thinking of downsizing, and found some places we thought were really nice and wouldn't cost anywhere near $1.5M for a dwelling or five figures in property taxes. YMMV.
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:07 AM   #80
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I was responding to Alex but I do think Bart taxes are worth it
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