Where do we live?

[daylatedollarshort]

We have lived in the SF Bay Area for years and stayed here during retirement. We bought a house a long time ago, have low property taxes due to Prop 13, and manage our income for ACA subsidies so expenses are fairly reasonable for us. We live near a BART station and make good use of the train system, especially during non-commute hours, so the traffic isn't too much of an issue for us. So far it has been a nice place to be retired with pleasant weather most of the year and lots to do. Friday we took the train into the city for a San Francisco Symphony performance and yesterday went to Treasure Island for the flea market, sangria and pretty views of the bay and skyline of the city.

 

[Scuba]

One thing I would say is to figure out what your COL would be if you don't relocate, assuming you are otherwise happy where you are. You may be find that it's not much cheaper to move, whether in or out of the state.



- If you own your home in CA and have for a while, your property taxes will likely be higher if you move.

- If you won't have much income in early retirement, your CA state income taxes will decrease from what you pay while working.

- If you stay in coastal CA, you have less need for home heating and cooling, and therefore lower energy costs than in most other places.

- Commuting costs disappear when you retire.

- You already have the appropriate summer and winter clothing, but you may have to make an investment in that if you move. Likewise, you may have annual costs for winterizing homes and vehicles in other locations that you don't have in CA.

- Overall grocery costs don't seem to vary that much within the continental U.S. Some foods are cheaper here, some more expensive, but the totals seem to be about the same no matter where we travel. (Hawaii excepted.)

- The health care situation in urban areas of CA, both by price and quality, is better than in a lot of other places.

- Travel costs increase when you move somewhere more remote.

- The main thing that I find we spend more on at home than in other states is restaurant meals. Minimum wages here are high, which drives up costs, and more restaurants are also passing along surcharges instead of rolling them into their pricing.



This is an individual analysis that is going to vary a lot depending on your own expenses and priorities, but I think it's worth doing it in order to have a real idea of the costs or savings you would get from relocating.

This is very good advice. We did this when we considered relocating from So CA to other areas. While it was less costly to live in most other places, the difference wasn't as big as we had thought.

 

[street]

Rural MT.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

DW and I moved as far north in MN as we could when we sold our business in 2016. There are no roads between our house and Canada, lots of lakes though.

We live on 20 acres a mile off a tar road and love it. We're both introverts and enjoy the solitude after 31 years of working with the public. A good wood stove, stack of books and a well stocked pantry (and a modest bar) make life very pleasant.

The nearest town is 20 minutes away (population 3,500) and has everything anyone really needs, plus a lot of character you can't find in a big town. If you want more, the nearest Walmart and box stores are about an hour away. There's a hospital in town and if needed a helicopter ride can get you to a trauma center in Duluth in 45 minutes. I can fish 100 lakes within an hour drive (or paddle), some world class fishing too. Lots of wildlife right here on our property.

There are a TON of ER folks here that have moved from all over the country, they stay til they can't walk anymore. We're an active community, most find a way to enjoy the outdoors everyday all year. I met a retired marine at church yesterday, he moved here from San Diego 5 years ago and built a log cabin. There are folks like that everywhere, makes it interesting. It's not for everybody, but it is for some of us.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

NE Florida

 

[Major Tom]

I live in the SF East Bay. I don't fully agree with folk who say it's expensive here, with the obvious exception of housing costs. If you bought your place a while ago, you're in a good place. I don't own, but have particularly low rent. The gentleman who owns my converted house is in his early 80's, and it's not the kind of property that is likely to remain as a rental, so at some point, I'll most likely be moving out of the Bay Area.

Other than the cost of housing for newer residents and renters, this area offers a wide variety of things to do that are not expensive. If you like to do expensive things though, those options most definitely exist too . The weather in my part of the East Bay (Oakland) is the most pleasant climate I have ever lived in. We're a bit warmer than our neighbors in the city of SF. If the weather gets too hot in the summer, we only have to wait a few days, in the knowledge that the weather will break, and we'll get some cloudiness and cooler days. There's just enough variation in the climate to keep it from being dull, yet not enough to actually make life hard . Now if only I'd bought a house here some time ago.......!

 

[W2R]

Hello W2R,

We'd love to visit your town sometime (we're Seattleites), what time of year do you recommend given we don't like huge crowds and Mardi Gras? Also don't like extreme heat. Being from the NW, a little rain is OK! --Thanx

Well, late June, July, August, and September are out because of the heat. Mardi Gras 2018 is on February 13th, so there will be huge crowds and carnival parades in January and February up until then. Other than that, I don't know what to suggest. Usually October has the best weather of the year. But then, from what I understand, most tourists don't come here for the weather....

 

[W2R]

We have lived in the SF Bay Area for years and stayed here during retirement. We bought a house a long time ago, have low property taxes due to Prop 13, and manage our income for ACA subsidies so expenses are fairly reasonable for us. We live near a BART station and make good use of the train system, especially during non-commute hours, so the traffic isn't too much of an issue for us. So far it has been a nice place to be retired with pleasant weather most of the year and lots to do. Friday we took the train into the city for a San Francisco Symphony performance and yesterday went to Treasure Island for the flea market, sangria and pretty views of the bay and skyline of the city.

(Bolded emphasis mine)
Low property taxes can make a BIG difference!

When I moved from my old house to my Dream Home only 3 miles away, my annual property taxes went from $956 to $1,701, the amount that I just paid earlier this week. Ouch.

That hefty property tax increase was because I paid more for my Dream Home in 2015, than I paid for my old home back in 2002. The assessment here has always been the purchase price, for me. The millage increases can be around $20-$30 or so each year, but are trivial here compared with the effect of assessment values.

It is definitely worth the increase in property tax to be living in my Dream Home. Also I am saving money on some other aspects of home ownership, so overall my guess is that the cost is maybe a little bit more but probably in the same ballpark.

Now that I have moved (in July 2015), and now that my huge 2016 landscaping project is behind me, 2017 will be the first "normal" year of home expenses in my Dream Home. When 2017 is over I am looking forward to comparing these 2017 expenses to my 2014 expenses before I moved.

Another aspect that you brought up, is your very high level of personal satisfaction and happiness with your retirement location, which comes through in many of your posts and is a delight to read about. These aspects of where we live are SO important for most of us, and it's hard to put a dollar value on them.

 

[harllee]

We live in Chapel Hill, NC (great college town--home of the University of North Carolina, lots of interesting things to do and great medical facilities) from November to May. In the hot summer (May through October) we live in the mountains of North Carolina in Linville, NC. We have the best of all weather. Wonderful cool summers in Linville (4000 feet altitude) and mild winters in Chapel Hill (snow is very rare in Chapel Hill, maybe a few inches once every couple of years). North Carolina is overall a very low cost of living state, but Chapel Hill is pricier than most of NC. Our summer home in Linville is in a resort area, but it is in a fairly low cost of living neighborhood.

We love both places.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

It is definitely worth the increase in property tax to be living in my Dream Home. Also I am saving money on some other aspects of home ownership, so overall my guess is that the cost is maybe a little bit more but probably in the same ballpark.

It is nice you have found your perfect place. It seems like the extra property tax is well worth it for you. We're probably not in our perfect house for retirement, especially with our kids grown now, but the location suits us.

 

[Carpediem]

For you country livin' folks, did you build or buy existing? Seems a lot easier in my area to find land compared to a decent house on acreage. But the cost to build is too much imo.

 

[MRG]

(Bolded emphasis mine)
Low property taxes can make a BIG difference!

When I moved from my old house to my Dream Home only 3 miles away, my annual property taxes went from $956 to $1,701, the amount that I just paid earlier this week. Ouch.

+1
Our last home in a LCOL area our property taxes were over $6500 yearly. In a higher COL area it's $1700! The properties were 50k difference in price.

We're very happy in this location, SW Colorado, it's not for everyone. Small town in a remote area has pros and cons. Healthcare and insurance are not cheap. There's also millions of acres of public land around our home.

I can walk from my house into a national forest in a minute. I took DW to see a specialist today and it was an hour drive each way. There's a game trail that splits around our house on the canyon rim, deer, turkey, fox and bear frequently travel the area.

It took us ten years to figure out where we wanted to live.

Point is(OP) I don't know what makes you tick, you don't know what makes me tick. It's all good.. Best wishes on your journey.

ETA: The biggest waste of our time and money was reading "the top 15 places to retire to" that everyone sees in one form or another. Perhaps it was good in that we learned we didn't want to retire to Winslow Arizona.

 

[Dreamer]

We live in Morgantown WV. We have lived here since 1986 and it is home to us. It is a college town, West Virginia University, is here. We get 4 seasons and the winters have been a bit milder the last few years. It would be nice to get more sunshine though. Have many friends and relatives that live within 25 miles. I am originally from PA (from Morgantown WV to PA is approximately 9 miles). We have thought about moving to PA, for tax purposes, and to Charlotte NC area, since our daughter's family lives there (our 3 grandchildren are there). We are pretty settled here and spent around $100,000 having our house remodeled the end of 2014. Probably will be staying right where we are.

 

[street]

For you country livin' folks, did you build or buy existing? Seems a lot easier in my area to find land compared to a decent house on acreage. But the cost to build is too much imo.

I bought land and built my own home from ground up. I also have a ranch and built a cabin there and that is where I spend most of my time. Both are very rural in MT.

 

[Alex The Great]

I live in the SF East Bay. I don't fully agree with folk who say it's expensive here, with the obvious exception of housing costs. If you bought your place a while ago, you're in a good place. I don't own, but have particularly low rent. The gentleman who owns my converted house is in his early 80's, and it's not the kind of property that is likely to remain as a rental, so at some point, I'll most likely be moving out of the Bay Area.

Other than the cost of housing for newer residents and renters, this area offers a wide variety of things to do that are not expensive. If you like to do expensive things though, those options most definitely exist too . The weather in my part of the East Bay (Oakland) is the most pleasant climate I have ever lived in. We're a bit warmer than our neighbors in the city of SF. If the weather gets too hot in the summer, we only have to wait a few days, in the knowledge that the weather will break, and we'll get some cloudiness and cooler days. There's just enough variation in the climate to keep it from being dull, yet not enough to actually make life hard . Now if only I'd bought a house here some time ago.......!

It is great to know, that you are happy in SF Bay Area. But Prop 13 can be changed some day (though it seems unlikely as of now). Also, county may impose additional tax due to the loss of revenues. For my house in San Jose, property tax went up 12% each year in 2013 and 2014. Currently I pay >$12K annually. Did someone here say $6K is high enough? But otherwise, this area is very nice and I completely agree on that.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

It is great to know, that you are happy in SF Bay Area. But Prop 13 can be changed some day (though it seems unlikely as of now). Also, county may impose additional tax due to the loss of revenues. For my house in San Jose, property tax went up 12% each year in 2013 and 2014. Currently I pay >$12K annually. Did someone here say $6K is high enough? But otherwise, this area is very nice and I completely agree on that.

I suppose it is possible our property taxes could skyrocket, but they have not in several decades of living here and I'm not aware of any serious proposals that would drastically increase our property taxes in the near future. The federal income tax changes currently being voted on, if passed into law, might have a bigger impact on us. But even then that is what our buffer in the retirement plan is for.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

Carpediem, we bought our house in 2010, a full 5 years before moving here. We found what we wanted and could afford it so we bought it. I'm sure it would cost 50% more to have built it when we finally moved in 2016.

 

[GravitySucks]

Plan A was to move to a low cost area, but due to circumstances and procrastination I'm still here in Central NY. I was spending about 4 months a year in California with DGF but never felt that was a viable home for me. Now my DM health is failing I'll probably be here a bit longer.
The high income taxes will drop next year as I will finally qualify for the retiree exemption.
The high property taxes will fall a little at 65.
I don't mind the snow and cold but plan on snow birding to South Carolina this year for a month and maybe the Alabama Redneck Riviera next year.
Late spring, summer, and fall are great here climate-wise. Bicycling and hiking right down the road. Leaf peeping with no travel. Fishing and boating on a large lake 10 minutes away or the Great Lakes 40 minutes away. Adirondack Park and Finger Lake winery's an hour away.
Price of groceries and restaurants seems lower than most places I travel too. A decent array of restaurants though it's no NYC or Washington or Chicago. Not much in the way of great fresh seafood. [emoji20]
Five hours or less drive time to Toronto, NYC, Boston, and Montreal.
I now plan on staying here while DM still needs me.

 

[gayl]

It is great to know, that you are happy in SF Bay Area. But Prop 13 can be changed some day (though it seems unlikely as of now). Also, county may impose additional tax due to the loss of revenues. For my house in San Jose, property tax went up 12% each year in 2013 and 2014. Currently I pay >$12K annually. Did someone here say $6K is high enough? But otherwise, this area is very nice and I completely agree on that.

The 'county' doesn't impose 'fees,' prop 13 rate changes by the way we vote on bonds ..... in Clayton (thru the tunnel from Oakland) we've never turned down a library / fire / park / school / misc city fund bond. Sounds like San Jose agrees

 

[Another Reader]

The 'county' doesn't impose 'fees,' prop 13 rate changes by the way we vote on bonds ..... in Clayton (thru the tunnel from Oakland) we've never turned down a library / fire / park / school / misc city fund bond. Sounds like San Jose agrees

Exactly what I was going to say. Two thirds of the voters, many of whom don't own property, have never met a bond issue or parcel tax they didn't like. My bill is now 1.7 percent of my assessed value. What Jarvis envisioned was the rate slowly dropping to 1 percent as the existing bonded indebtedness was paid off. Never happened.

 

[gayl]

Not true out here where I live. We're 95% homeowners and we vote everything through because we want the enhanced lifestyle.

For what it's worth, if you cause the operating cost of my rental to go up I raise your rent. So if the property taxes go up it goes up for everybody. Homeowners directly and renters indirectly

I thought Jarvis was to have control over any increases in our property taxes. I wasn't actually voting back then so I'm not sure if it was in the original bill that property taxes would never go up more than 2% a year

Reasons why I won't leave the area:
- capped increases
- moderate year round weather
- great art / music / symphony / opera
- family
- Bart ride to international airport
- open area (border state park / unusable terrain -- too steep to build)
- boating

 

[Bamaman]

my house in San Jose, property tax went up 12% each year in 2013 and 2014. Currently I pay >$12K annually. Did someone here say $6K is high enough? But otherwise, this area is very nice and I completely agree on that.

Don't complain about property taxes. One friend in southern Wisconsin has a 1935 craftsman 1100 square feet house on a 45 ft wide lot, and her taxes are $5500. Another friend in Racine had a $185k townhouse and was paying $6500.

My best friend had a house in North Dallas (University Park.) It is maybe 5000 square feet and covers the 50' lot. When his property taxes hit $50,000, he sold the house and moved into a luxury apartment.

My wife is on disability and Alabama state and city property taxes are $0 on our main residence because of her health problems. I do have to pay $1,178 on our lake house worth $400k, however.

 

[Breedlove]

Currently we live in Cypress Texas . a suburb of Houston. This spring this house will be sold and we will move to our house in Richards Texas . We bought some land years ago and a few years ago built a home out of a steel barn . We will be 30 minutes from any hospital , 30 minutes from any real civilization Walmart , restaurants ... But daily we see new barniminiums going up . Plenty of backroads for a sportscars or motorcycles.

 

[gayl]

Don't complain about property taxes. One friend in southern Wisconsin has a 1935 craftsman 1100 square feet house on a 45 ft wide lot, and her taxes are $5500. Another friend in Racine had a $185k townhouse and was paying $6500.

My best friend had a house in North Dallas (University Park.) It is maybe 5000 square feet and covers the 50' lot. When his property taxes hit $50,000, he sold the house and moved into a luxury apartment.

My wife is on disability and Alabama state and city property taxes are $0 on our main residence because of her health problems. I do have to pay $1,178 on our lake house worth $400k, however.

so apparently we either pay the bill in property taxes (as a homeowner or pass thru as a renter) or state income taxes ..... I'll keep with it as income taxes as that seems more fair (make more / pay more)

 

[ohyes]

We have lived in central Arkansas (within 5 miles of the geographical center of the state) for thirty years. Arkansas has some beautiful country and the COL is low.

While we fantasize and talk of moving to other areas, it will not surprise me if we stay here. Our town has three colleges, plenty of restaurants, 25 mi from Little Rock, and an easy day's drive to the coast or a couple cruise ports. It is nice to be "sort of" centrally located in the USA.

If we do move, it will most likely be to NW Arkansas.