Where Do Young Retirees Live?

[renferme]

For seafood, we like Scoma's at Pier 47 and in Sausalito.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yankee pier, they have a web site. www.yankeepier.com

Its on Santana Row off of Stevens Creek Blvd in the south bay, and in Larkspur. I think they were planning a 3rd place.

Prices are reasonably near what you'd pay for the same amount of food in a typical nicer than average new england fish restaurant. I think it was about $15-16 bucks for a big plate of clams, fries and cole slaw and about the same for a lobstah roll, fries and cole slaw.

I've had the fried clams, the lobster roll, and the chowdah. All were fresh, done exactly right, and good.

[Hyperborea]

Why aren't there more early retirees ? * I suspect that most people are living above their means and, therefore, can't.

Few are capable of the very early retirements of under 50 (or under 40) that get discussed - John Greany, the Terhorsts, hopefully Hyperborea, etc. However, there is probably a significant fraction of the population that could get a 55-60 retirement happening. Why don't a lot of them do it and why do a lot of them go back to some kind of work after retiring - even the "regular" retirement age ones? I think it's because most people really have no life - they have work and most likely children that they let consume their lives. They have no outside interests, most of them haven't read a book since university, and they let themselves be spoon fed their "entertainment" from the "entertainment" industry. They have nothing to do other than to work so it's pretty easy to see why they don't give it up.

[Bob_Smith]

Bennevis, I can't speak for others, but here are a few reasons I'm determined to ER, and I don't see these traits in my coworkers:

-- I am extremely sensitive to any restrictions on my freedom, and work is about 1% freedom and 99% compliance. My coworkers seem to feel that they are free within the tiny pen they're placed in, while I see the fence that contains me, and nothing but the fence.

-- I am very quick to perceive manipulative, controlling actions by managers for what they are. My coworkers tend not to assign a negative intent. I do.

-- I really have a tough time working for people who are dumb. And most of the people I work for aren't very bright, nor were they very good at performing the work before they floated to the top. My coworkers suffer fools gladly. I don't.

-- I have a life outside of work. In fact, what goes on outside of work IS my life. My coworkers integrate their work life with their personal life. I don't. For me they are separate worlds. One world I love, the other I don't.

-- I really dislike living my life on a schedule. If I'm interested in something, I'll stay up until 4 AM. I just happen to live close to three of my coworkers. Their lights are always out by 11. They seem to like a routine. I don't.

-- I am very selective about people I want to spend time with. There are very, very few. My coworkers tend to be happy flitting from one person to the next.

These are a few things that come to mind. I think those of us hell-bent on ER are different than most, probably in different ways. I'm a left-handed INTJ, but I suspect there's far more to it than that.

[Hyperborea]

Yankee pier, they have a web site. www.yankeepier.com

Its on Santana Row off of Stevens Creek Blvd in the south bay, and in Larkspur. *I think they were planning a 3rd place.

Thanks for the info. *I'll give them a try. *I'm surprised though that Santana Row, that gaudy temple to consumerism, actually has any good food. *It'll be tough to park the car there what with all the Hummers spilling over into the adjacent parking spots. *

Most of my favourite Bay Area eateries are little hole in wall places.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Along those lines, when I was working I was quite certain that given a period of time with nothing to do, that I'd go batty in short order.

My company demonstrated poor judgement in giving me a 3 month paid sabbatical after my first seven years of employment. I had never taken more than 2 weeks off from working since I was 14. And I only took two weeks once.

A month into it, I was firmly reminded of school summer vacations. Timewise, I turned into a human entropy machine. I started grinding my coffee beans every morning. I spent 2 hours sitting on the lawn with a beer pulling weeds instead of telling the lawn man to spray it the next time he came by. Four hours in a lawn chair at the lake with my feel in the water and a book in my hand. Whoops, the day is gone. Cant wait until tomorrow.

My next year at work, I never really got into it. The politics, the tomfoolery, the stress and wasted motion. It all seemed foolish to me.

The decision was tough, but I figured "I can always go back to work...".

A place where everyone is early retired and lots of things to do are organized...sort of a Sun City for a wide variety of ages? Summer camp for the able bodied and underemployed? I might consider moving to such a place, but I'd bet you'd only need a couple of them. Set them up in inexpensive areas, set up systems to reduce costs through mass influence and purchasing, pooled investment research and advice...perhaps even pooled investing to reduce risks?

Possibly more fun than we should be allowed to have...

[Hyperborea]

A place where everyone is early retired and lots of things to do are organized...sort of a Sun City for a wide variety of ages? *Summer camp for the able bodied and underemployed?

I don't think that most of those who retire really early (i.e. sub-50) would be interested. Most of them likely have no need of someone else to impose order on their lives. One of the big reasons to FIRE is to get out and have the time to order one's own life. I think that the big attraction of these types of communities is for the forcibly retired who need a "manager" to tell them what to do and when.

[renferme]

Bob Smith,
I , too, am left handed and I couldn't have said it any better than you just did !
Being in the world of IT, my non-work life is extremely inhibited by being on-call 24X7X365, constantly carrying a pager and cell phone and fixing problems in the middle of the night. After about 35 years of working, I've had enough.
About 12 years ago, it seemed that our jobs here were not as 'guaranteed' as they had been before. That was a wake up call to begin pumping as much money as possible into the 401k and other investments. I was able to do that dispite an awful divorce. Fortunately the kids were out of college. The divorce forced me to downsize my life and that gave the opportunity to save/invest more.
There are so many people that wonder what I'm going to do when my retirement hits in about a month.
I'll be golfing, house and yard work, relaxing, and reducing stress while they continue with the grind of work.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I don't think that most of those who retire really early (i.e. sub-50) would be interested. Most of them likely have no need of someone else to impose order on their lives. One of the big reasons to FIRE is to get out and have the time to order one's own life. I think that the big attraction of these types of communities is for the forcibly retired who need a "manager" to tell them what to do and when.

I wasnt thinking of a structured situation, more of an opportunity one. Ever been to a club med? You can walk around to sailing, diving, archery, painting, pottery, etc locations...just do it or get instruction from a waiting expert if you dont know how. Or just sit on the beach. Even the sun city setup isnt a managed one. You go to the club house, theres a couple of pools, an exercise room, a billiards room, library, big screen tv room, and about 30 "classes" in everything from dance to art to computers going on. *I* almost wanted to live there...

[Workwayless]

Few are capable of the very early retirements of under 50 (or under 40) that get discussed - John Greany, the Terhorsts, hopefully Hyperborea, etc.

As someone who did it I can tell you that very early retireement is not an urban legand. Yes, it's true that not everyone can make this choice however there are plenty of people who can especially if they are childless, healthy and either have a job that provides an early pension and/or pays a good wage. It's just a matter of when you find out about ER and whether or not you decide to make it a priority.

[BigMoneyJim]

So then I started thinking that maybe this dryer sheet flag is a good thing. Everyone who is ER'ed should make an official ER flag and fly it proudly in front of their home. That way, we could see how many people in our neighborhoods are ERs.

If we all flew the same flag we'd probably get noticed and then be labeled as a terrorist cell attacking the American way of life (consumption & debt for many).

I think it was intercst who observed that the reason INTJ's and INTP's aren't a large percentage of the population is that they end up in jail in other countries for refusing to conform.

I suspect that ER-minded people tend to naturally find each other through frugality, travel and search of ER-appropriate investments.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Who said you have to go to another country?

[unclemick]

Worst yet I think some states(Florida?) are looking at ways to creatively tax retirement portfolios. Retirement property tax anyone?

Hey Big Money Jim! I have rarely conformed to anyone's
rules in my whole life (60 years). In fact, as I've grown older, I've gotten farther outside of the "norm" and
am quite happy to be here. Has this gotten me in trouble? You bet, but..............I wouldn't change a thing.

John Galt

[unclemick]

Left handed, INTJ, ER, - some things are best when flown before below the radar. For instance clothes lines can be spotted by satelite but recyled dryer sheets are much harder to detect.

[Hyperborea]

I wasnt thinking of a structured situation, more of an opportunity one. *Ever been to a club med? *You can walk around to sailing, diving, archery, painting, pottery, etc locations...just do it or get instruction from a waiting expert if you dont know how. *Or just sit on the beach.

It might be a good situation for some. I've actually never been to Club Med (or any of the clones). I much prefer to travel my own way and figure things out - explore things and make my own discoveries. Again, I wonder if most FIREees aren't too independent to want a situation like that. I could maybe stand a week of it but much more than that would drive me buggy.

The cost would also be something that would severely limit the number of potential residents. The pool of very early retirees is already small enough and then you would need those with maybe $2M plus to afford to live in the Club Med retirement home for the middle aged.

[Hyperborea]

As someone who did it I can tell you that very early retireement is not an urban legand. Yes, it's true that not everyone can make this choice however there are plenty of people who can especially if they are childless, healthy and either have a job that provides an early pension and/or pays a good wage. *It's just a matter of when you find out about ER and whether or not you decide to make it a priority.

Yeah, I'm not doubting that it can be done only that few ever do it. I'm going to be able to get there by maybe 46 if things work out at our low end estimate (though it's not the lowest doom and gloom estimate). I could make it sooner if I was willing to head off with a lower bag of loot but it would mean scaling back retirement to a point that wouldn't be as much fun. To do so would shave off up to 3 years but I'm reasonably positive that I can both hold on to my job and sanity for that extra 3 years.

As you say, the other biggie is when did I really start planning for FIRE. It wasn't as early as some - mid-30's. What's made it possible to happen so quickly from that point is the fact that I do make a good income and I was saving at a reasonable default level before that point (max 401k + wife's IRA + ESPP). Since then we've ramped up the after tax investments a lot. In my case it's more a savings exercise than an investment exercise. I'm planning on very low rates of return from now until FIRE. If I get better it will likely only shave off one to two years. The average 'joe' is going to require a longer period of time since they have a smaller amount of disposable income and their FIRE plan is more of an investment exercise.

[ESRBob]

As someone who did it I can tell you that very early retireement is not an urban legand. Yes, it's true that not everyone can make this choice however there are plenty of people who can especially if they are childless, healthy and either have a job that provides an early pension and/or pays a good wage. *It's just a matter of when you find out about ER and whether or not you decide to make it a priority. Yeah, I'm not doubting that it can be done only that few ever do it. *

I went ER at 42, (4 years ago) but had been planning it since I read Terhorst in 1988, which would be for about 13 years. The biggest things we did differently from our peers were: 1) save like crazy (we were expats in Japan when everybody spent all their money and we lived off my wife's income and saved 100% of mine) and 2) as soon as the pieces lined up, I started my own companies, consciously taking on lots of sweat and risk to make the $ come in faster, albeit with more risk- something Terhorst recommends.

Come to think of it, I got mentally started even sooner -- in my 20's, because I saved proportionally a lot then after reading all the IRA propaganda telling you how much greater the value of savings compounded if you started in your 20's, so I had the idea that I had to hustle really hard early in my career and then Terhorst came along when I was about 30 to tell me how I wouldn't have to keep doing that forever-- which was a huge relief.

We have kids so it can be done, but generous grandparents help when it comes to their college savings!

I do think the Meyers Briggs "I" is the most important factor -- being internally motivated means you figure stuff out for yourself and build a system that keeps you going a long time on your own agenda, as opposed to letting too many outside temptations pull you around. It really takes a lot of years of focus and planning to get a real early ER (unless you inherit a whole bunch of $!).
Both my brothers are essentially ER, too-- one in his late 30s rehabbed SF real estate and then moved to the woods to home-school their kids and live cheap while engineering new technologies in his shop (like building an electric-powered VW bug) -- the other a commercial pilot who stays on call and flies once a month to Tokyo.

So maybe there is something in the engineering mentality that lends itself to ER, and maybe it is in the way your parents raise you -- to think independently, not buy too many expensive status symbols, and save $. Our dad was also self-employed which might be a factor -- we never grew up with "Company Man" values in our house.

My advice to younger people on this board contemplating ER is save like crazy, take prudent private company investment risks to build your capital (either as an involved investor or as a company founder, or maybe as a part-time real estate rehabber if you like that sort of thing), and stick with the vision. Also, I still do some part-time consulting work to help make ends meet which is a nice compromise financially and helps me keep my brain fresh.

[ESRBob]

We currently live near Seattle, and are planning our ER. *We would like to find somewhere with better weather and a lower cost of living, especially real estate. *We also would like to find a spot where there are plenty of younger retirees. *We are not nearly ready for the "active adult" communities.

Does anyone have any proven strategies for identifying such a place?

Thanks.

I think you won't get a proven strategy, and as for where to live, I think ER's are so independent you'll find them anywhere, and you should just look for someplace you like. probably rural if you need to keep your expenses down or like country, and probably coastal since you are in Seattle now and would probably want the more liberal 'creative class' environment you take for granted now. good schools are key if you are going to have a family, and that tends to keep people from moving into really cheap areas, so that is a dilemma until the kids are grown or unless you homeshchool (my brother and his wife ER'd in their late 30's in Mt Shasta, CA and homeschool). Community matters a lot in ER since you have so much time to get involved, and you should find a community you like. for that reason, depending on statistics too heavily isn't going to work -- how can you statistically describe the redwood forests or the local coffee shop where you are going to feel community. but you'll know it as soon as you feel it. just go on a long vacation and drive to all these places while evolving a sense of what you