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Old 06-30-2009, 08:32 AM   #21
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People who retire with adequate $ resources and no other plan for 'what to do' all day are risking disappointment
as I get close I have been trying out various things. I got involved in the neighbourhood association and dabbled in national politics (well, our little corner of it). Found the same politics and BS as at work, but wasn't getting paid for it. I think I am done with the volunteering thing.

then, just when my numbers start to make sense to leave, I get the best boss in the universe (3000 miles away) and actually meaningful work that is effortless for me to do. Nice problem to have though.
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Old 06-30-2009, 08:35 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by growing_older View Post
wasting my time in a maze of cubicles following directions from clueless and mean spirited managers,.
for those still in the system, I think boss shopping is far more important than the type of work.
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Old 06-30-2009, 08:39 AM   #23
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for those still in the system, I think boss shopping is far more important than the type of work.
I was given this book by a co-w*rker many years ago when I was in a negative boss situation after a reorganization.
Reading it really gave me some tools to deal with...well, you know.
Amazon.com: How to Work for a Jerk: Your Success is the Best Revenge: Robert M. Hochheiser: Books
I passed it on to a very deserving friend when I FIREd.
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boss problems!
Old 06-30-2009, 09:11 AM   #24
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boss problems!

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I was given this book by a co-w*rker many years ago when I was in a negative boss situation after a reorganization.
Reading it really gave me some tools to deal with...well, you know.
Amazon.com: How to Work for a Jerk: Your Success is the Best Revenge: Robert M. Hochheiser: Books
I passed it on to a very deserving friend when I FIREd.
I used to have a "negative boss situation" too (love the phrase! so I borrowed it). A co-worker transferred to a different section two or three years ago to get away from the negative boss situation, and I had the opportunity to do so as well. I turned it down because I would have had to start over from scratch over there and really wasn't suited to that job opening, but it was a tough decision.

But, that horrid boss of mine got promoted to a job in another part of the organization, and NOW I have the best boss I have ever even heard of, much less had. Life is a bowl of cherries.

The relatively nice boss of the transferred co-worker retired, and now she is working for the Devil himself - - the worst, most psychologically abusive boss imaginable.

So, I think boss shopping isn't necessarily helpful. Outlasting a negative boss situation is a very satisfying experience, though.
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Old 06-30-2009, 09:23 AM   #25
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yes, I have witnessed that...fleeing a negative boss situation, only to have the negative boss transfer into your area or to be your boss

the fellow in question had formally grieved a promotion competition that the boss had mangled, and made an enemy for life. that guy ended up having to leave town to finally get away

my other tips are:
- try to work for bosses that match your profile as closely as possible, ie. if you are a female latino, find a female latino boss - leverage bias and prejudice in your favour
- try to work for bosses at least 2 pay grades above yours, so that they have room to promote you within the group
- try have lunch or a coffee with a prospective boss. If they cannot pull off an hour of human conversation with an underling, forget it. Remember that many open positions are positions that the locals won't fill because of the boss. Then again, if you have a very strong stomach, some people get ahead by specializing in such situations.
- try to find a boss who is not looking to get promoted.
- avoid bosses younger, shorter (men), less attractive (women) than you are, that might be threatened or jealous of you
- avoid bosses with no personal life, who love overtime panics at the office, or who get too close to their staff.
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:45 AM   #26
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So, I think boss shopping isn't necessarily helpful. Outlasting a negative boss situation is a very satisfying experience, though.
I won't bother with the details, but my 32 year career has seen very good and very bad bosses. Though the bad ones were tough to take during their tenure and I polished up my resume, I never really took steps to leave keeping my focus on my long term, knowing they wouldn't be around forever. My approach has paid off handsomely, and some of the bad ones are no longer employed. It takes longer than I'd like, but more often than not in my experience someone catches up with the bad ones eventually. Sometimes you have to leave a bad situation, but it's not always the best direction. Sometimes waiting them out is best for numero uno, as gruesome as it can be in the shorter term. And ironically I learned useful things from everyone of them, even if it was 'what NOT to do' from some of them.
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Old 06-30-2009, 11:25 AM   #27
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Doing nothing is an art form. Bunch of no good #$#@@! I'm an artist!
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Old 06-30-2009, 11:35 AM   #28
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Doing nothing is an art form. Bunch of no good #$#@@! I'm an artist!
After 4.5 years, I believe I have mastered the art.

This morning I sipped tea and felt the cool breeze, and watched the birds and squirrels on the lawn for ~20 minutes. I didn't do anything, I didn't think about anything; I just was.
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Old 06-30-2009, 07:28 PM   #29
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When I tell people I no longer work, the next question they usually ask is "what do you do all day?"
Well, I look at them with an exhausted smile and answer, "I'm soooo busy doing nothing all day, I just don't have time to do anything else"
Hey, you're back, so did you end up in the Southwest? If so, how's the cycling? Are you finding that you do more cycling now than you did before retirement? Are you burning out on all the cycling, or is that still holding your interest?
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Old 06-30-2009, 07:42 PM   #30
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I'll take my crappy golf, peanut butter sandwiches, and gall bladder talk any day over work. What's not to like?
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Old 06-30-2009, 08:31 PM   #31
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I have heard of people who quite their jobs and was dissatisfied with all of these activities: cycling, reading, watching TV, chilling out at the beer garden, going shopping, or going for a walk. At the time I was 27 or 28, and I was shocked. What could be more fun than having all the time world to train, race, and recover like a professional bike rider and still have time left to watch TV and read books?
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:11 PM   #32
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Hey, you're back, so did you end up in the Southwest? If so, how's the cycling? Are you finding that you do more cycling now than you did before retirement? Are you burning out on all the cycling, or is that still holding your interest?
Hi BGF. I am still in Chiang Mai Thailand. I haven't been back to the U.S. since late 2007. For me, the bicycle has always been more like owning a stock horse. It still is my main mode of local transportation. It keeps me fit and I enjoy wonderful rides around the surrounding country so unless I am physical unable to ride, it will remain an intregal part of my lifestyle. I love the idea that I am not poluting the air and not spending money on gas. That's why I love Chiang Mai. It is so easy for me to cycle here. Of course, I am used to dealing with city traffic. Cycling in CM is a piece of cake compared to NYC, Bangkok or worse, Saigon, cities I have spend time cycling about.
I've been having some minor knee issues (no pain yet) that have curtailed my serious bi-weekly mountain climbing rides as well as any serious cycling trips for now. I am going to take it easy for another 6 months and see if the knee improves. It did 6 years ago.
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Old 07-01-2009, 11:45 AM   #33
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I think someone needs to take this guy's crack pipe away. All these years I've dreamed of playing crappy golf and was even willing to settle for a municipal course. Now he's trying to ruin it for me. If only I could find a way to raise enough money to join the country club.

Oh, wait, I know... I can sell my gall bladder.
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:35 PM   #34
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Obviously the author never read Nord's the fog of work.
I think Marshall Goldsmith is a good writer, but he essentially lives out of airplanes and frequent-flyer lounges in between doing standup for thousands of people and getting to tell execs how to fix their screwed-up behavior. Why would anyone want to retire from that?

He won't retire until he's dead the flight attendants notice that he didn't return his seat to the full upright position.

And in his defense, I don't have to write on deadline...
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:53 PM   #35
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retire-and-be-happy: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

Dead is the new retirement. OK, that doesn't sound appealing, but working till you drop is a heck of a lot better than playing crappy golf at the country club, eating chicken salad sandwiches for lunch, and complaining about your gall bladder.
At least, it is if you can find a job in retirement that brings meaning and happiness. So says Marshall Goldsmith, whose blog entry "Brett Favre and the Difficult Art of Retiring Successfully" appeared last August on the Harvard Business Review's Web site...

A shot across FIRE's bow.
I think the article says something to Marshall Goldsmith's (who is "a consultant to executives") clients. I don't know if it says anything to most of us.

Generally, people who love their jobs should continue working. Lots of executives love their jobs (or, at least could love a job along the same lines as what they do). They have power, prestige, and perks. Why end a deal like that just because you can afford to?

If they want to continue working, but at a slightly different job, they might take advice from a consultant who provides a 7-point, action-orientd, to-do list. Sounds like a good executive approach to me.
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:32 PM   #36
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Let's dissect this. If someone doesn't like chicken salad sandwiches, they shouldn't eat them for lunch whether they are retired or working. If I want to complain about my gall bladder (which was removed 15 years ago), I would do so at work if I am at work.

That would reduce the argument to "working till you drop is a heck of a lot better than playing crappy golf at the country club".

I would suggest that we all should have the opportunity to pursue our dreams sometime before we die, and retirement is a good time to pursue them. Who is to say that golf is an unworthy dream?

Work involves doing what you must do to earn a living, whether you happen to feel like it or not. If someone prefers work to pursuing their dreams, then maybe they need to do some more introspection and self questioning about what their priorities really are.

If someone's work and their dreams coincide, more power to them. But I think that is not generally the case and when it isn't, retirement is not only justified - - it is something that we owe to ourselves.
Fabulous post Want2Retire!! You've got it down, and you're not even retired yet!

It always seems to me that folks who think retirement is nothing more than a life sentence of dull, meaningless and unfulfilling activity are really exhibiting a shocking lack of imagination.

Audrey
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:29 PM   #37
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That would reduce the argument to "working till you drop is a heck of a lot better than playing crappy golf at the country club".
I'm thinking even fans of golf would have a hard time disagreeing with this one...
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Old 07-04-2009, 07:05 PM   #38
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If someone's work and their dreams coincide, more power to them. But I think that is not generally the case and when it isn't, retirement is not only justified - - it is something that we owe to ourselves.
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Fabulous post Want2Retire!! You've got it down, and you're not even retired yet!

It always seems to me that folks who think retirement is nothing more than a life sentence of dull, meaningless and unfulfilling activity are really exhibiting a shocking lack of imagination.

Audrey
...never mind, we (Audrey & I) already had this (heated) discussion. We're not 180 apart, but we're not on the same plane...
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Old 07-04-2009, 07:14 PM   #39
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...never mind, we (Audrey & I) already had this (heated) discussion. We're not 180 apart, but we're not on the same plane...
Sorry if I stirred something (heated) up! It was not my intention at all. My intent was just to express some "Rah! Rah! Retirement!" sentiment.
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Old 07-04-2009, 07:53 PM   #40
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Sorry if I stirred something (heated) up! It was not my intention at all. My intent was just to express some "Rah! Rah! Retirement!" sentiment.
In any event, I hope we can all agree that whether or not we believe "early retirement" is the Holy Grail, achieving financial independence to the degree that allows one to retire is a very good thing whether we want to retire or not...
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