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Old 07-05-2009, 07:55 AM   #41
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I have encountered a number of cases where achieving the power to walk out gave the person more power to control thier work environment.

One thing I learned a long time ago, rewards come from relative power, not merit, and that negotiating power comes from having more alternatives than the other side of the table.

This can be misplayed however. If you let it get out that you can walk away any time, astute managers will avoid you, knowing that you won't say how high, when asked to jump.

Has there been previous discussion of the Die Broke approach here? This includes the philosophy that one should find job you actually like, even if it pays less, and you do it until they take you out feet first.
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Old 07-05-2009, 08:03 AM   #42
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Has there been previous discussion of the Die Broke approach here? This includes the philosophy that one should find job you actually like, even if it pays less, and you do it until they take you out feet first.
I'm pretty sure if you use the search button to look through the 569,000 posts on the forum that you'll find the subject has been thoroughly vetted a number of times. Of course much of the discussion could be sour grapes from those of us who weren't fortunate enough to find such a job.
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Old 07-05-2009, 08:08 AM   #43
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This can be misplayed however. If you let it get out that you can walk away any time, astute managers will avoid you, knowing that you won't say how high, when asked to jump.
Which could hurt you in trying to find a new j*b. If hiring managers don't think you'll have a sense of urgency about the j*b -- that you won't care because you don't have to (like the phone company!), that you won't be motivated by fear, that sort of thing -- they may be more likely to pass on you in favor of someone they can exert more control and leverage over.

Of course, if you become FI on the job and you demonstrate your value, it's also more likely that you can parlay that into a more enjoyable work experience, as my father did once he turned 55 and became pension-eligible. It's at the point when you are FI and when your bosses don't want you to retire that brings the unusual point in time, the worker, not the employer, has the stronger hand.

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I'm pretty sure if you use the search button to look through the 569,000 posts on the forum that you'll find the subject has been thoroughly vetted a number of times. Of course much of the discussion could be sour grapes from those of us who weren't fortunate enough to find such a job.
True that. I am a bit envious of people who truly love their j*b to the point where they don't see a need to retire from it. And increasingly, I've been more thinking "second career" than pure FIRE recently. I think I'd rather do the rat race thing until age 50 and then find something lower-paying I'd enjoy more until 60 than stay with the rat race until 55. How it actually plays out partially depends on how my wife's new gig eventually plays out.
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Old 07-05-2009, 08:36 AM   #44
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True that. I am a bit envious of people who truly love their j*b to the point where they don't see a need to retire from it. And increasingly, I've been more thinking "second career" than pure FIRE recently. I think I'd rather do the rat race thing until age 50 and then find something lower-paying I'd enjoy more until 60 than stay with the rat race until 55. How it actually plays out partially depends on how my wife's new gig eventually plays out.
Me too, although at different ages than you chose. We're already FI, unfortunately health care (I have good coverage now) may cause us to hesitate. I expect my situation will play out; stay with the current work (not bad, just boring after all these years) until I just can't stand it anymore, and then move on to something I'd like to do regardless of the pay. I am one of those people who would rather learn/work at something than relax.

I am actually thinking of staying with MegaCorp, but pursuing a Sales job after 32 years in manufacturing - just for the challenge and change in scenery. If I'm not as successful, at least I'll never wonder what it might have been like.
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Old 07-05-2009, 09:16 AM   #45
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Which could hurt you in trying to find a new j*b. If hiring managers don't think you'll have a sense of urgency about the j*b -- that you won't care because you don't have to (like the phone company!), that you won't be motivated by fear, that sort of thing -- they may be more likely to pass on you in favor of someone they can exert more control and leverage over.
My now retired CFO used to tell me "its always better to hire a young thirty-something with a non-working spouse, two kids and a mortgage...they work harder and last longer".

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Old 07-05-2009, 09:16 PM   #46
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I've been more thinking "second career" than pure FIRE recently..
apologies to those who have already tread this well worn path

I wonder if it is about achieving play and dignity.

Once you are at the point of financial independence, life expands to all these choices.

a job you can walk away from, a job where you can tell anyone who is making you uncomfortable to F-off, including "the boss", is not really a "job", but is more a past-time, so it is FIRE "in spirit".
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Old 07-06-2009, 12:51 PM   #47
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apologies to those who have already tread this well worn path

I wonder if it is about achieving play and dignity.

Once you are at the point of financial independence, life expands to all these choices.

a job you can walk away from, a job where you can tell anyone who is making you uncomfortable to F-off, including "the boss", is not really a "job", but is more a past-time, so it is FIRE "in spirit".
Ah, that explains what I was doing that last 10 years of 'work.'

My former mini-corp was bought by a MegaCorp, and there were several times following the merger that I was driven to tell persons to... um... do that thing. Things got better once mini-corps management took over MegaCorp (which led to "Who bought whom?" questions everywhere), but yeah, it was more of an interesting hobby than a job, I suppose.

I did leave in early 2008 to full FIREdom, mostly because the tasks I had left weren't particularly interesting. Hobbies aren't supposed to be boring, right?
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Old 07-06-2009, 12:54 PM   #48
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I did leave in early 2008 to full FIREdom, mostly because the tasks I had left weren't particularly interesting. Hobbies aren't supposed to be boring, right?
Even when you're FI, I guess if a j*b isn't stressful and unbearable, one could ask their self: If I wasn't doing this boring j*b, would I be doing something more interesting and fulfilling with my time? If not, you might as well keep w*rking and making the bucks (and perhaps the bennies) until you can answer "yes".
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