Zelinski a Hypocrite???

[ERhoosier]

OK, OK.....Before grabbing your torches & pitchforks, please hear me out.
As I get closer to ER I finally got around to buying 2 of Ernie's books (TJONW & HTRHWF). Read TJONW & drank in this liberating 'leisure philosophy'. Very interesting & entertaining book. But then the back cover info "About the Author" hit me like a swift kick to the gut. Somehow authoring 15 books with 80+ global distribution contracts, granting 100's of press interviews, and doing professional speaking engagements seems more like a "real job" than a leisure lifestyle to me. Did Ernie the engineer not retire but just start a new career as successful author?
Not that there's anything wrong with that

[unclemick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERhoosier OK, OK.....Before grabbing your torches & pitchforks, please hear me out. As I get closer to ER I finally got around to buying 2 of Ernie's books (TJONW & HTRHWF). Read TJONW & drank in this liberating 'leisure philosophy'. Very interesting & entertaining book. But then the back cover info "About the Author" hit me like a swift kick to the gut. Somehow authoring 15 books with 80+ global distribution contracts, granting 100's of press interviews, and doing professional speaking engagements seems more like a "real job" than a leisure lifestyle to me. Did Ernie the engineer not retire but just start a new career as successful author? Not that there's anything wrong with that

Hmmm - Right! Better him than me.

heh heh heh - One needs to be very very careful about stamping out success when it rears it's ugly head. Maintaining Slacker status is tough but somebody has to do it. .

[Midpack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERhoosier OK, OK.....Before grabbing your torches & pitchforks, please hear me out. As I get closer to ER I finally got around to buying 2 of Ernie's books (TJONW & HTRHWF). Read TJONW & drank in this liberating 'leisure philosophy'. Very interesting & entertaining book. But then the back cover info "About the Author" hit me like a swift kick to the gut. Somehow authoring 15 books with 80+ global distribution contracts, granting 100's of press interviews, and doing professional speaking engagements seems more like a "real job" than a leisure lifestyle to me. Did Ernie the engineer not retire but just start a new career as successful author? Not that there's anything wrong with that

Not discounting your POV, but “Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life.” Confucious (?)

I'm retired, but if I found a job that I actually loved, I'd probably not consider it work either. While it's rare, it's not unheard of. YMMV

[HFWR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclemick Hmmm - Right! Better him than me. heh heh heh - One needs to be very very careful about stamping out success when it rears it's ugly head. Maintaining Slacker status is tough but somebody has to do it. .

+1

[ER Eddie]

Well, in Ernie's defense, he gives plenty of space to discussing the subject of working in retirement -- not so much at "jobs" but at things you enjoy doing (which may or may not pay money). He also talks a lot about his career as a writer. Personally I love those bits, find them very encouraging.

[heeyy_joe]

The first part of a work addiction is denial...

[ERhoosier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by heeyy_joe The first part of a work addiction is denial...

'Zactly!

After TJONW, Ernie had me ready for a life layin' in the sun sippin' margaritas and watchin' the world go by. Then I read his bio & started fretting over how I needed to get busy on a second career.

unclemick- I hear ya. As a teenager, when asked about my occupational goal I used to joke about becoming a bum. Maybe THAT's my second career

[H2ODude]

In my early months of retirement I read a lot of books, including Z's. I was struck by how many prescribed feeding your creativity, and invariably that included ... writing. I have NO desire to write for fun or profit. So I pretty much decided that books on retirement were written by people who ... liked to write BOOKS!

I've enjoyed doing some volunteer construction, and am in middle of complete master bath remodel. Heck of lot more fun than writing or doing what I did for a career! I think I'd seriously get into this as a part time business except that at 62 I'm afraid it wouldn't last long! Like schlepping over 1500 lbs of debris downstairs (that's what the landfill weighed!) and a like amount back up.

Point is, for me the preaching about total leisure isn't that pleasurable. I'd rather be doing something. I think others have it right ... if you enjoy it working (even long hours) is just fine. OTOH I suspect Z is somewhat addicted to the money rush. No basis to say that, just my guess. To each his/her own.

[Midpack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2ODude Point is, for me the preaching about total leisure isn't that pleasurable. I'd rather be doing something. I think others have it right ... if you enjoy it working (even long hours) is just fine. OTOH I suspect Z is somewhat addicted to the money rush. No basis to say that, just my guess. To each his/her own.

+1. Me too.

[ER Eddie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2ODude In my early months of retirement I read a lot of books, including Z's. I was struck by how many prescribed feeding your creativity, and invariably that included ... writing. I have NO desire to write for fun or profit. So I pretty much decided that books on retirement were written by people who ... liked to write BOOKS!

I've noticed that, too. They talk about how 80% of people want to write a book (I made that stat up, but it's in the ballpark), how they are surrounded by people who want to write, how the internet is 90% would-be writers, etc. I sure hope that's not the case (because I have interest in the subject myself but don't want to face all that competition). I have a sense that it's a biased sample, based on the company they happen to keep or attract. If you're a successful writer, you're probably going to be surrounded by people who are interested in writing or want to know how to get into the biz, etc.

[ChocoKitty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ER Eddie I've noticed that, too. They talk about how 80% of people want to write a book (I made that stat up, but it's in the ballpark), how they are surrounded by people who want to write, how the internet is 90% would-be writers, etc. I sure hope that's not the case (because I have interest in the subject myself but don't want to face all that competition). I have a sense that it's a biased sample, based on the company they happen to keep or attract. If you're a successful writer, you're probably going to be surrounded by people who are interested in writing or want to know how to get into the biz, etc.

I'm not concerned. There's a huge difference between wanting to write a book and actually writing one. Most people won't write a book because it's too much work.

[ER Eddie]

Yeah, that's true. I'd guess 90 to 95% of people who say they want to write a book never actually do it. Seems like e-books have made it a lot easier, though, if you count those as books. Seems like people can bang those out in a few weeks.

[ERhoosier]

Not too concerned with writing books or whatever. Just that sometimes "leisure" seems to have way too much of a productivity requirement

[ChocoKitty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ER Eddie Yeah, that's true. I'd guess 90 to 95% of people who say they want to write a book never actually do it. Seems like e-books have made it a lot easier, though, if you count those as books. Seems like people can bang those out in a few weeks.

Eh, only if they don't care about quality. The writing is the hard part, from my experience. It's about the content, not the format.

[ziggy29]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ER Eddie Well, in Ernie's defense, he gives plenty of space to discussing the subject of working in retirement -- not so much at "jobs" but at things you enjoy doing (which may or may not pay money). He also talks a lot about his career as a writer. Personally I love those bits, find them very encouraging.

In that sense, he's really preaching the gospel of FI, not necessarily retirement -- in other words, get your financial ducks in a row in such a way that enables you to retire if you *want* to. And then, if you choose to work, it will be entirely because you want to, not because you have to, secure in the knowledge that you can walk away at any time if they start filling the BS bucket.

[ER Eddie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChocoKitty Eh, only if they don't care about quality. The writing is the hard part, from my experience. It's about the content, not the format.

Well, the format makes it a lot easier to "write a book," if that's your goal. Some of these e-books aren't much longer than a book chapter, there is no real quality control, and you can easily self-publish.

But I know what you're saying. I wouldn't want to bother with writing a book I wasn't proud of.

[ER Eddie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggy29 In that sense, he's really preaching the gospel of FI, not necessarily retirement -- in other words, get your financial ducks in a row in such a way that enables you to retire if you *want* to.

Yes, although he doesn't spend much time talking about finances. He focuses more on the general themes of independence from the normal, corporate world and living an active, stimulating life on your own terms. He's not a retirement guy per se, especially for those who define retirement as not working at all.

I enjoy reading him because his spirit is infectious. Most retirement books are pretty dry.

[AnIntentionalRoad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERhoosier After TJONW, Ernie had me ready for a life layin' in the sun sippin' margaritas and watchin' the world go by. Then I read his bio & started fretting over how I needed to get busy on a second career.

If it works for him, more power to him.

Likewise, for each of us, sip margaritas or find an avocation we love and pursue it. The beauty of this FIRE stuff is that we each get to decide for ourselves every morning.

[Milton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERhoosier Somehow authoring 15 books with 80+ global distribution contracts, granting 100's of press interviews, and doing professional speaking engagements seems more like a "real job" than a leisure lifestyle to me. Did Ernie the engineer not retire but just start a new career as successful author?

You are correct about his career change, but the hypocrisy charge doesn't really stick. Although HTRHWF is about retirement, as far as I know (?) Zelinski hasn't claimed to be retired himself (he does say that he takes entire summers off, and only works part-time in the remaining eight months: but I have no reason to disbelieve that claim).

If you want to point the hypocrisy finger at a Canadian ER author, I'd suggest that Derek Foster (Stop Working: Here's How You Can! and various other titles) is a much better target.

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2ODude Point is, for me the preaching about total leisure isn't that pleasurable. I'd rather be doing something.

Fair enough: lazing poolside is fun in small doses, but not terribly fulfilling in the long term. But Zelinski doesn't really advocate "total leisure", does he? It's been quite a while since I read TJONW, but I seem to recall that most of it was about finding satisfying ways to stay mentally, emotionally and physically active and engaged.

[ER Eddie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milton You are correct about his career change, but the hypocrisy charge doesn't really stick. Although HTRHWF is about retirement, as far as I know (?) Zelinski hasn't claimed to be retired himself (he does say that he takes entire summers off, and only works part-time in the remaining eight months: but I have no reason to disbelieve that claim).

Yeah, I've just started reading The Joy of Not Working, and he is very clear in the first few chapters that he works. He talks about it repeatedly. Like Milton said, it's part time work that he enjoys, and he only works on months with an "R" in them, but he's not an anti-work guy. I seem him more as an anti-corporate, anti-"stuck in a normal job I don't like" guy.