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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 11:10 AM   #21
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

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I assume that once you have kids, FIRE is probably put on the mental back burner.
Bad assumption! Dropping the kid off at Grandma's house for daycare every morning and picking her up after dark every night makes me want to FIRE even more. We only get to see our little one for a few hours a night during the week.
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 11:17 AM   #22
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

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Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby
Are you factoring kids or a spendthrift spouse into the marriage equation?* Both will definitely delay FIRE by a few years.
You got that one right!!!

I could have been ER by now if not for the 15 years of high debt and no savings.

You don't have to be single; you just need a cooperative marrige partner and a goal you both believe in. My second marriage was just that way. It made all the difference in the world. Kids are really only a small factor unless you spoil them with cars, expensive toys, and fund a Harvard education.

It all comes down to what you want to do in life and how much you want it.
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 11:36 AM   #23
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

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Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby
As I think any guy would under those circumstances.* But, marriage and kids are things (experiences?) many men and women want (or think they want).* I assume that once you have kids, FIRE is probably put on the mental back burner.
I never said that I was unhappy about the trade-off; quite the contrary. However, it is unlikely that marriage is a big boost to the ability to fire unless we are talking about a very frugal DINK couple.

Kids make me want to retire even more.
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 12:04 PM   #24
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

I think marriage can definitely be a factor in the ER equation. If two people are totally committed to FIRE, it can be done much earlier...but if one is committed and the other is not, it can have the reverse affect.

In my own case, it is kind of neutral but leaning against FIRE. Since we make plenty, DW spends pretty freely. We save quite a bit, but we could save much more. Kids are also pretty much of a bottomless pit where money is concerned.

If I were single, I'd RE today (on about $40K per year) but as it is, I'll work a few more years.
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 01:45 PM   #25
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

You may need to add "limit children" to Skylark's list (0-1 seems to be a popular range here). Or maybe that's under "live frugally." I don't follow that advice myself, BTW. Like Brewer, if I was on my own I wouldn't need my job today, but as it stands I'll be there for a good while.
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 01:47 PM   #26
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

I agree that marriage can affect FIRE either way. I think that kids definitely slow things down, but do not make it impossible to do in 20 years. I seem to remember some surveys that reported couples without kids were financially wealthier than those with kids. I figure my kids put RE back about 5 years (but worth it!).

Also - I like the stories from people who have/are doing FIRE without taking large risks. It makes me more confidence that my 'blanket' statement might be closer to truth than I thought.

My new motto: 20 and Out!

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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 03:09 PM   #27
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

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I agree that marriage can affect FIRE either way.* I think that kids definitely slow things down, but do not make it impossible to do in 20 years.* I seem to remember some surveys that reported couples without kids were financially wealthier than those with kids.* I figure my kids put RE back about 5 years (but worth it!).

Also - I like the stories from people who have/are doing FIRE without taking large risks.* It makes me more confidence that my 'blanket' statement might be closer to truth than I thought.

My new motto: 20 and Out!*
I think it would be great to FIRE at 41 or so (i.e. 20 years after graduating college at 21). You would still have some youth left to go on crazy adventures (on the cheap, of course) and won't be worried about your retirement. Plus, if you have the right background, you can always go back to work after taking a few years off to satisfy your wanderlust.

Unfortunately, doing so isn't the fate of most people, or even most people on this board. The kind of sacrifices required to make FIRE in 20 years are more than 99% of us are willing to make.
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 03:36 PM   #28
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

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Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby
I think it would be great to FIRE at 41 or so (i.e. 20 years after graduating college at 21).* You would still have some youth left to go on crazy adventures (on the cheap, of course) and won't be worried about your retirement.* Plus, if you have the right background, you can always go back to work after taking a few years off to satisfy your wanderlust.

Unfortunately, doing so isn't the fate of most people, or even most people on this board.* The kind of sacrifices required to make FIRE in 20 years are more than 99% of us are willing to make.
If $1 mil is enough on which to retire, then it takes about $2K savings a month for 20 years, assuming a 7% return.

If people can only save $1K a month, then the next best thing would be to semi-retire.

If you can't save $1K a month, you may be doing something wrong, unless you have a large family or are sick.
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 04:09 PM   #29
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

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If $1 mil is enough on which to retire, then it takes about $2K savings a month for 20 years, assuming a 7% return.

If people can only save $1K a month, then the next best thing would be to semi-retire.

If you can't save $1K a month, you may be doing something wrong, unless you have a large family or are sick.
I think it would be difficult for a fresh out of college 21-year old to save $2k a month on a starting salary of $25k-30k. This is why it would likely take more than 20 years to FIRE, even if a person started at 21 years old. With that said, I think it would be a safe assumption that a 21-year old could save at least enough in a 401(k) account to get an employer match, along with a $4k Roth IRA contribution. The problem is that neither of those accounts will be available for withdrawal for another 40 years. Mind you, the amounts deposited in such accounts will grow like crazy in the intervening period, but that's cold comfort to someone looking to FIRE in 20 years.
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 05:16 PM   #30
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

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Originally Posted by retire@40
If $1 mil is enough on which to retire, then it takes about $2K savings a month for 20 years, assuming a 7% return.

If people can only save $1K a month, then the next best thing would be to semi-retire.

If you can't save $1K a month, you may be doing something wrong, unless you have a large family or are sick.
I didn't even make $2k a month until I was almost 30.
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 05:29 PM   #31
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Re: 20 years working is all you need


Why not start work around 30-35 then retire at 50-55? You get a decade to goof off and take advantage of better early retirement deals that happen in your 50's.
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 06:28 PM   #32
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

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I

If you can't save $1K a month, you may be doing something wrong, unless you have a large family or are sick.
Or make what a good portion of the population makes.
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 09:03 PM   #33
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

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Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby
I think it would be difficult for a fresh out of college 21-year old to save $2k a month on a starting salary of $25k-30k.* This is why it would likely take more than 20 years to FIRE, even if a person started at 21 years old.* With that said, I think it would be a safe assumption that a 21-year old could save at least enough in a 401(k) account to get an employer match, along with a $4k Roth IRA contribution.* The problem is that neither of those accounts will be available for withdrawal for another 40 years.* Mind you, the amounts deposited in such accounts will grow like crazy in the intervening period, but that's cold comfort to someone looking to FIRE in 20 years.
Regarding the difficulties of saving $2K a month for a 21-year old, it may be harder, but not impossible, depending on the profession.* For example, starting salaries for pharmacists are in the $80K range last I checked.* Also, even if you could only save $1K a month for a portion of the 20 years, most likely you can catch up by adding more than $2K a month for the remaining portion as your income increases and you don't use that increase to buy fancy cars and McMansions.

Regarding the retirement funds not being available for 40 years, not true.* SEPP from a rolled over 401(k) and/or take out your Roth IRA contributions whenever you want.
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 09:07 PM   #34
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

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I didn't even make $2k a month until I was almost 30.* *
Then you were not thinking ER when you stayed at the job making under $2K a month or at least didn't make ER a priority.

I also was making under $2K a month at my first job out of college, but after a few months, I knew it wasn't going to get me where I wanted to be, so I quit and did something where I could earn more money.
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 09:08 PM   #35
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

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Why not start work around 30-35 then retire at 50-55?* You get a decade to goof off and take advantage of better early retirement deals that happen in your 50's.
One word: COMPOUNDING
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 09:10 PM   #36
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

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Or make what a good portion of the population makes.*
The problem isn't what the general population makes, it's what the general population spends.
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 10:01 PM   #37
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

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One word: COMPOUNDING
Good point, although I bet that I had more fun than you did in that decade!
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 10:22 PM   #38
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

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Good point, although I bet that I had more fun than you did in that decade!
I guess it depends on your definition of fun.

If it's goofing around like you say, then maybe you did have more fun.

I traveled within the USA, Europe, Canada, went on cruises to the Caribbean, fell in love, got married, had a kid, and started a successful business during my 20s and still managed to save some money, so my decade wasn't too shabby and I certainly don't have any regrets.
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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 10:47 PM   #39
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Re: 20 years working is all you need

Sounds like you had a great time and made some great memories. I know I sure did during that decade. I never started a business, it always seemed like too much work. This discussion makes me want to do my 20's all over again. Be harder this time, I would probably have to cut down on some of the mountain and rock climbing, but I bet I could do the rest of it.

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Re: 20 years working is all you need
Old 01-09-2006, 10:57 PM   #40
 
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