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The Prodigal Son
Old 04-26-2016, 12:06 PM   #21
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The Prodigal Son

You might want to check out The Number: A Completely Different Way to Think About the Rest of Your Life (2006). Although not a particularly useful book, it's an entertaining read and tries to consider the question you've asked.

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Are you an only child If so, tell your Mom, you need some $$$ from your Dad's money. Retire now, and enjoy life.
It's Mom's money now, and maybe she has other plans for it. It's rarely wise to count on an inheritance.

Could be wrong but I don't have the sense from the OP's posts that he's interested in financing early retirement at his mother's expense.

Personally I would consider it rather presumptuous, selfish and, frankly, tacky to ask for a cash advance prior to Mom's death (unless the money was necessary to help cope with a medical emergency or similar crisis situation, which is obviously not the case here). Just my opinion.
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Old 04-26-2016, 07:14 PM   #22
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I am now/will likely be in a somewhat similar position to you at your age as well.

I can't give solid advice but I have had many similar thoughts that you have had. I am 27 with a NW ($310k) and income ($85K) much lower than yours, but I suspect by 35 I will have around the same NW as you (and hopefully the same income! ). My parents are also affluent with a NW of about $5m but they live fairly frugally for their NW (only spending $100-110k/year). I spend about $4k a month max (likely less) in after tax money, so would also need about a $2m portfolio to support a 3% SWR.

I have thought my future plans countlessly over and over again given my situation. Given my current portfolio and annual savings rate, I might not reach $2m (in today's dollars) until my ate 40's, assuming my pay only increases with inflation each year. However I am confident I will be promoted and will be due for some sizable promotions which will increase my savings, but I don't factor that into my modeling.

At any rate, I basically have come up with three scenarios for me, which may apply to you too:

1) Work until I can support a 3% SWR (basically until 45-50).
2) Work until I have enough assets to withdraw 5-10% a year with the idea that I would inherit more funds later in life. Obvious there are inherent risks/tough decisions involved with this one.
3) Do #2 above, but find part time work so that I am essentially only withdrawing 3% a year.

Of course, there are pros and cons to all of the above. #1 is the least risky but #2 and #3 provide more freedom. #2 and #3 would also involve some family estate/inheritance conversations with your mom which might not be welcomed - it all depends on how close you are with your mom and what you think her plans would be for the money. The conversation may be very welcomed and well received by her. Or, it may be very unwelcome. I haven't had any inheritance talks with my folks, but I will say that they are very impressed with my disciplined savings and the fact that I haven't frivolously blown through my trust fund that they gave me. Another thing to keep in mind is that you have 5 siblings, so that $3m won't go nearly as far divided 5 or 6 ways.

#2 and #3 above also would give you freedom to spend more time with your mom in her old age (think, spending a winter in FL with her), which would be invaluable, of course, and something you could never replace.
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Old 04-27-2016, 10:13 AM   #23
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It's a stretch for you to unplug now without more $. If the j*b is fun and pays well, by all means keep going, there is no more enjoyable way to secure your retirement. Reevaluate when the w*rkplace becomes a drag, which it will eventually.
Very much agree. Trying to be proactive and plan now for the inevitability of the workplace becoming a drag. Always better to plan when times are good and your head is clear, versus in bad times when you're stressed.
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Old 04-27-2016, 10:19 AM   #24
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I actually forgot to mention that about Dad.. he has a significant pension (which my mother now gets) on top of it. He really should have stopped 10 years earlier.

Another data point, we did lunch with than an older coworker (similar job to mine) with a successful career that pulled the plug in his late 50's, and he does not regret leaving at all.

So part of the way I'm thinking about that early 40's - 50's timeframe. I place a lot value on that, because (hopefully!) I'll still be young enough to explore activities that require physical fitness/endurance, which may be harder to do at 50+. Counterbalanced with those being "peak earning years" and not wanting to ever stress about money. Not an easy call.

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My story is very similar. My dad was diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer at age 77, just two years after he retired. His assets were far less than your father's.

Now I'm 38, my dad died last year at 81. Our total NW is similar, though I have about 1/4th of that in home equity. Investable assets have grown quite a bit, and I'll have a significant pension starting in 3.5 years.

I fully understand the "that won't be me" mind set. I'm in it.

Still, at 35, things can change so much over the course of the rest of your life. For me, even with a pension estimated worth of about $2.5MM, I'm aiming for $1.5M+ before I even consider pulling the plug, and will probably work past that. I could retire as soon as 42, but chances are I'll work till 50 or so. That'll give plenty of buffer, allow me to explore another career path more in line with something I love, and still give me time with wife and kids while we're all still young.

Bottom line: I am resisting the urge to err excessively in the other direction from what my parents did, but going for a still very early retirement, but with an adequate level of security to where I don't need to worry about our standard of living.

Indeed, time > money, but I'd prefer that time to be as stress-free and comfortable as possible. Use your big head start to your advantage, but resist the urge to go overboard.

My $0.02.
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Old 04-27-2016, 10:25 AM   #25
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You might want to check out The Number: A Completely Different Way to Think About the Rest of Your Life (2006). Although not a particularly useful book, it's an entertaining read and tries to consider the question you've asked.

It's Mom's money now, and maybe she has other plans for it. It's rarely wise to count on an inheritance.

Could be wrong but I don't have the sense from the OP's posts that he's interested in financing early retirement at his mother's expense.

Personally I would consider it rather presumptuous, selfish and, frankly, tacky to ask for a cash advance prior to Mom's death (unless the money was necessary to help cope with a medical emergency or similar crisis situation, which is obviously not the case here). Just my opinion.
You're spot on. Zero interest in any of that money now, or really ever. I'm heartbroken my parents didn't enjoy it together, and I hope I'm long since set on my own by the time I'd inherit any of it.
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Old 04-27-2016, 10:38 AM   #26
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You sound similar to me - I was right around you were at that age. My income increased significantly in the last 5 years and I've moved into the management ranks. At 27, don't hesitate to invest in yourself if that will help (be that an MBA, advanced degree, or other means.)

As far as Mom, I'm effectively her financial advisor. She fully plans/wants to give all of this money to us, so we're doing it in a tax efficient manner (read: slowly.) Short on that, as you said, dividing it by 5 means less of a windfall, and I don't factor this in at all.

I'm hoping to be retired well in advance of any inheritance I would get.

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Originally Posted by younginvestor2013 View Post
I am now/will likely be in a somewhat similar position to you at your age as well.

I can't give solid advice but I have had many similar thoughts that you have had. I am 27 with a NW ($310k) and income ($85K) much lower than yours, but I suspect by 35 I will have around the same NW as you (and hopefully the same income! ). My parents are also affluent with a NW of about $5m but they live fairly frugally for their NW (only spending $100-110k/year). I spend about $4k a month max (likely less) in after tax money, so would also need about a $2m portfolio to support a 3% SWR.

I have thought my future plans countlessly over and over again given my situation. Given my current portfolio and annual savings rate, I might not reach $2m (in today's dollars) until my ate 40's, assuming my pay only increases with inflation each year. However I am confident I will be promoted and will be due for some sizable promotions which will increase my savings, but I don't factor that into my modeling.

At any rate, I basically have come up with three scenarios for me, which may apply to you too:

1) Work until I can support a 3% SWR (basically until 45-50).
2) Work until I have enough assets to withdraw 5-10% a year with the idea that I would inherit more funds later in life. Obvious there are inherent risks/tough decisions involved with this one.
3) Do #2 above, but find part time work so that I am essentially only withdrawing 3% a year.

Of course, there are pros and cons to all of the above. #1 is the least risky but #2 and #3 provide more freedom. #2 and #3 would also involve some family estate/inheritance conversations with your mom which might not be welcomed - it all depends on how close you are with your mom and what you think her plans would be for the money. The conversation may be very welcomed and well received by her. Or, it may be very unwelcome. I haven't had any inheritance talks with my folks, but I will say that they are very impressed with my disciplined savings and the fact that I haven't frivolously blown through my trust fund that they gave me. Another thing to keep in mind is that you have 5 siblings, so that $3m won't go nearly as far divided 5 or 6 ways.

#2 and #3 above also would give you freedom to spend more time with your mom in her old age (think, spending a winter in FL with her), which would be invaluable, of course, and something you could never replace.
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Old 04-27-2016, 10:58 AM   #27
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So part of the way I'm thinking about that early 40's - 50's timeframe. I place a lot value on that, because (hopefully!) I'll still be young enough to explore activities that require physical fitness/endurance, which may be harder to do at 50+. Counterbalanced with those being "peak earning years" and not wanting to ever stress about money. Not an easy call.
This is pretty much the balance I'm going for. Given ten more years of earning and saving, I'd still get out at 48 or so, but with plenty of money to live very comfortably, even with a few luxuries, and have plenty of time with the fam. Seems like a good balance. Getting out really, really early appeals to some parts of me, but I think that's a largely emotional side, and I think - more and more - that I'd like to try something else as a bridge, more along the lines of what interests me, not just what pays me.
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Old 04-27-2016, 12:54 PM   #28
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Cfisher, your situation reminds me a lot of my own when I was just a little older than you. I had a very high-paying job in engineering which I generally didn't mind, but soon after I turned 40 some things started shifting around in my thinking about life and my career. It felt sort of like I was waking up from a long dream, a dream where I was this robotic being walking on a treadmill with no conscious thought being given to what I was really "doing" with my life. Anyway, after several years of soul-searching and number crunching (and browsing this forum!), I decided to leave my lucrative job at the ripe old age of 45, once I had amassed what seemed like a safe number to fund my fairly modest lifestyle. Like you, I'm not married and have no kids, so that made the calculation easier.

I think if you work until you're, say, 42 or 44, and build up your finances to the point you're completely good to go with a 3% WR, then the money part is all set. The things you'll need to focus on then will be the psychological aspects, such as how will you continue to stay engaged socially with the world and what will you do to provide yourself with a continued sense of accomplishment and meaning, etc. Retiring in your mid-40s comes with some notable challenges, but if you can anticipate those types of things and plan for them, you'll likely be very satisfied with the outcome. If you don't, you may find yourself feeling somewhat adrift and a bit empty inside, especially if you were very engaged in your career for many years prior. It can be a tough transition, so definitely give some serious thought to the "what will I do all day" question well in advance of your last day in the office. Good luck!
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Old 04-27-2016, 01:14 PM   #29
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Your situation sounds extremely similar, and good advice all the way.

Let me ask then - how happy are you with your decision? What do you do all day?

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Cfisher, your situation reminds me a lot of my own when I was just a little older than you. I had a very high-paying job in engineering which I generally didn't mind, but soon after I turned 40 some things started shifting around in my thinking about life and my career. It felt sort of like I was waking up from a long dream, a dream where I was this robotic being walking on a treadmill with no conscious thought being given to what I was really "doing" with my life. Anyway, after several years of soul-searching and number crunching (and browsing this forum!), I decided to leave my lucrative job at the ripe old age of 45, once I had amassed what seemed like a safe number to fund my fairly modest lifestyle. Like you, I'm not married and have no kids, so that made the calculation easier.

I think if you work until you're, say, 42 or 44, and build up your finances to the point you're completely good to go with a 3% WR, then the money part is all set. The things you'll need to focus on then will be the psychological aspects, such as how will you continue to stay engaged socially with the world and what will you do to provide yourself with a continued sense of accomplishment and meaning, etc. Retiring in your mid-40s comes with some notable challenges, but if you can anticipate those types of things and plan for them, you'll likely be very satisfied with the outcome. If you don't, you may find yourself feeling somewhat adrift and a bit empty inside, especially if you were very engaged in your career for many years prior. It can be a tough transition, so definitely give some serious thought to the "what will I do all day" question well in advance of your last day in the office. Good luck!
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Old 04-27-2016, 01:18 PM   #30
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Seems like a good balance to me.

I'm good to stay while the going is good. I'm not rushing for the exits, but I want flexibility that if things go bad in my early 40's, that I had the option of calling it a day with the corporate career.

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This is pretty much the balance I'm going for. Given ten more years of earning and saving, I'd still get out at 48 or so, but with plenty of money to live very comfortably, even with a few luxuries, and have plenty of time with the fam. Seems like a good balance. Getting out really, really early appeals to some parts of me, but I think that's a largely emotional side, and I think - more and more - that I'd like to try something else as a bridge, more along the lines of what interests me, not just what pays me.
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Old 04-27-2016, 01:45 PM   #31
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OMY means another 250K to spend in retirement. Set your lowest retirement amount and once there work only if you don't hate working. Consider a second career or other goals in life. If you retired at 40 in good health with enough money hobbies aren't really enough. If you don't have goals other people will expect to use your time. This can be your goal if you like. Helping your mom for example in 10 years she will be 74 and might want you to help mow the lawn or repair things. My brother is like that in retirement he took care of our mom, his kids houses remodeling, whatever his wife wanted, babysitting a granddaughter occasionally, vacationing. He enjoys projects so when I retired he came a painted some rooms for me. As a young retiree you could own rental houses if you enjoyed projects but since a house tied you down think twice about that.
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Old 04-27-2016, 04:07 PM   #32
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Your situation sounds extremely similar, and good advice all the way.

Let me ask then - how happy are you with your decision? What do you do all day?
Well... although I'd say I'm fairly happy, it isn't the sort of blissful nirvana that many others on this board seem to have attained. I still haven't quite found my groove, but I am working on it, and that in itself is an interesting project. I still do some part-time consulting work for several companies, so that provides me with a bit of structure and keeps me connected to various people and projects. I also have discovered the world of "meetups" recently and am enjoying getting out and meeting new people quite a bit. Even with all that, though, consistently filling my days with meaningful activities is an ongoing challenge.

Check out this thread that I started last year for a more in-depth discussion of these kinds of issues. Coping with excessive solitude

Even with its challenges and its imperfections, though, there is one thing that is completely, undeniably, and perpetually awesome about being FIREd: sleeping as late as I want every morning and staying up as late as I want every night and having nearly complete control over my time and my comings-and-goings. I honestly don't feel like I could ever go back to the old 9-to-5, 5 days/week corporate life, having experienced and gotten used to this luxurious freedom for the past few years.
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Old 04-27-2016, 06:16 PM   #33
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I'm not planning on making a move anytime soon. 40 would be the earliest and that would only be if something happened that made work unbearable and I really did not want to start over at another company. 42 might be a great goal, with 45 being more realistic because of all of uncertainty in a 40+ year retirement. My biggest concern is health care costs for 40 years, coupled with a lower interest rate/expected returns investing world.

While it's been accurately pointed out that this is a very personal choice, I'm still interested in others perspective. $2M by 40 enough? $2.5M by 43? $3M by 45-46?

The MMM thing is every bit as crazy to me as multi millionaries that don't enjoy work but continue with it.
I retired at 43 with an admittedly sizable nestegg. Best decision of my life. I have several serious hobbies the keep me engaged and after several years of decompression, have started doing very light consulting in my old industry (right now about 10 hours a week) but I'll drop that if it starts to feel like a career again.

I haven't heard anything about a significant other or children but if either is a future possibility, they could greatly impact your need for more income.

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Old 04-28-2016, 06:37 AM   #34
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I haven't heard anything about a significant other or children but if either is a future possibility, they could greatly impact your need for more income.
Posts 10 and 11?
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Old 04-28-2016, 07:12 AM   #35
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Well... although I'd say I'm fairly happy, it isn't the sort of blissful nirvana that many others on this board seem to have attained. I still haven't quite found my groove, but I am working on it, and that in itself is an interesting project. I still do some part-time consulting work for several companies, so that provides me with a bit of structure and keeps me connected to various people and projects. I also have discovered the world of "meetups" recently and am enjoying getting out and meeting new people quite a bit. Even with all that, though, consistently filling my days with meaningful activities is an ongoing challenge.

Check out this thread that I started last year for a more in-depth discussion of these kinds of issues. Coping with excessive solitude
Here's a short list of books that you might find useful:
  1. Anthony Storr, Solitude: a return to the self (1988);
  2. Tom Hodgkinson, How to be Idle (2005);
  3. Ernie J. Zelinski, The Joy of Not Working: A Book for the Retired, Unemployed and Overworked - 21st Century Edition (2003);
  4. Sara Maitland, How to be Alone (2014);
  5. Eva Hoffman, How to be Bored (2016);
  6. Philippa Perry, How to Stay Sane (2012).

You should be able to find all or most of these titles at your local library.

Hope it helps, Milton
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Old 04-28-2016, 07:16 AM   #36
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Trying to be proactive and plan now for the inevitability of the workplace becoming a drag. Always better to plan when times are good and your head is clear, versus in bad times when you're stressed.
Absolutely!
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Old 04-28-2016, 08:05 AM   #37
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Posts 10 and 11?
Ah, thanks!
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Old 05-03-2016, 11:56 PM   #38
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As a suggestion... Try to take 3-6 months off... I mean really off... not "working from home" but rather, not checking email, etc and see how it FEELS.

I think that will tell you a lot about yourself (I'm testing this out).

My situation is different... married and two young kids... but also a few years older (early 40s).

My current situations puts my financial worry at the "worried about apocalypse" level so I'm focusing on the other part.

Personal advice: if/when you find a spouse make sure you are well aligned on money. I mean really... not the fake dating aligned. I'm not sure HOW to do this, but because my DW and I built our lives up together it wasn't that big of a deal... we just align really well financially (And in other ways too) but I've seen how this can go wrong when there are big differences in these areas and obviously you don't want to be in a divorce a few years after doubling your savings :P
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:09 AM   #39
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Your advice is for me to give up the career/high level position I've worked 14 years to attain to test out not working? I don't think that's very wise or practical.

Very much agree on the personal advice. Actually, I'm not sure at this point if marriage is worth the risk because of divorce.

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As a suggestion... Try to take 3-6 months off... I mean really off... not "working from home" but rather, not checking email, etc and see how it FEELS.

I think that will tell you a lot about yourself (I'm testing this out).

My situation is different... married and two young kids... but also a few years older (early 40s).

My current situations puts my financial worry at the "worried about apocalypse" level so I'm focusing on the other part.

Personal advice: if/when you find a spouse make sure you are well aligned on money. I mean really... not the fake dating aligned. I'm not sure HOW to do this, but because my DW and I built our lives up together it wasn't that big of a deal... we just align really well financially (And in other ways too) but I've seen how this can go wrong when there are big differences in these areas and obviously you don't want to be in a divorce a few years after doubling your savings :P
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:11 AM   #40
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I retired at 43 with an admittedly sizable nestegg. Best decision of my life. I have several serious hobbies the keep me engaged and after several years of decompression, have started doing very light consulting in my old industry (right now about 10 hours a week) but I'll drop that if it starts to feel like a career again.

I haven't heard anything about a significant other or children but if either is a future possibility, they could greatly impact your need for more income.

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I think (hope!) I will be in a similar situation at a similar age. I really don't think boredom is going to be a problem. I also have lots of hobbies and would probably join a country club to golf/hang out. I'm more of a type A personality and make new friends quickly.
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