Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-12-2012, 06:14 PM   #21
Moderator
bssc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,925
I agree with the do what you love and second that sometimes it will require multiple attempts to find out what that is. And sometimes people are happy doing those jobs that the rest of us would not.
__________________

__________________
Angels danced on the day that you were born.
bssc is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-12-2012, 07:30 PM   #22
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUEGO View Post
In all seriousness, I don't sugar coat the fact that jobs mostly suck and prevent you from doing more awesome stuff that you would actually prefer to do. But jobs are how you get money to do awesome stuff, buy awesome stuff and live a comfortable life that includes things like a roof over your head, a car with gas in the tank, and food on the table.
I got to do plenty of awesome stuff in the Navy, most of which I wanted to do but which would have been illegal without government sponsorship.

I was able to follow my passion for nearly 15 years, but then my daughter was born and my priorities changed. Hence my advice about the ambiguity.
__________________

__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 08:45 PM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by retire@40 View Post
My son asked me for my advice on how he should make money during his life. Do I tell him to be a doctor, lawyer, etc? Or, do I advise him...

Subjective and personal, but I would not 'advise'/'tell' him/her of anything (and I haven't with my own children).

What I would do, is to try to fill them in as much as I can on the pros/cons, explain that is just from my perspective and experience, and then it is up to them. It is their life.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy View Post
Tell him to follow his passion. He'll be most successful doing something he loves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
+1
Quote:
Originally Posted by bssc View Post
I agree with the do what you love and second that sometimes it will require multiple attempts to find out what that is. And sometimes people are happy doing those jobs that the rest of us would not.
I guess I'll throw in a minus 3 then. What I would have loved would have been to be a rock star (funny timing, I just dragged out a little keyboard and played along with 'Do what you like' from Blind Faith - it came up on my random playlist, and I remembered the chords from a song I had not played in 40 years - Am-Bm7 - forgot the bridge, I think there's an F#m7th in there, gotta work on that now. But 'Do What You Like' in this context? What serendipity?). But I can assure you that the "Rock Star" thing would not have worked out for me. I ain't no Keith Emerson.


Quote:
Engineering Manager: $140,210

Dang, I was under-paid for ALL of my career. Oh well, it's all good.


-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 09:44 PM   #24
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50

Subjective and personal, but I would not 'advise'/'tell' him/her of anything (and I haven't with my own children).

What I would do, is to try to fill them in as much as I can on the pros/cons, explain that is just from my perspective and experience, and then it is up to them. It is their life.

I guess I'll throw in a minus 3 then. What I would have loved would have been to be a rock star (funny timing, I just dragged out a little keyboard and played along with 'Do what you like' from Blind Faith - it came up on my random playlist, and I remembered the chords from a song I had not played in 40 years - Am-Bm7 - forgot the bridge, I think there's an F#m7th in there, gotta work on that now. But 'Do What You Like' in this context? What serendipity?). But I can assure you that the "Rock Star" thing would not have worked out for me. I ain't no Keith Emerson.

Dang, I was under-paid for ALL of my career. Oh well, it's all good.

-ERD50
I have settled into this area. Making sure they are aware of the ramifications of their decision, but it is their life. Two years ago, I was worried about my daughter because she wouldn't get a part time job, and learn to appreciate the value of a dollar. She simply rather did without extras so she wouldn't have to work and was not willing to do fast food. Since I did FF for 4 years, it kind of perturbed me, but she doesn't live with me except on the weekends, so I wasn't going to ruin that time arguing about it. Fast forward a year later, the lucky little turkey got her a cushy 20 hour a week gig at the JUCO she is attending. And she is saving every penny and guarding it like a hawk. She listened to me more than I thought! She appears to be drifting toward a lower paying career,so that is fine since she is a saver and not a spender.
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 11:13 PM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Katsmeow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,395
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I guess I'll throw in a minus 3 then. What I would have loved would have been to be a rock star (funny timing, I just dragged out a little keyboard and played along with 'Do what you like' from Blind Faith - it came up on my random playlist, and I remembered the chords from a song I had not played in 40 years - Am-Bm7 - forgot the bridge, I think there's an F#m7th in there, gotta work on that now. But 'Do What You Like' in this context? What serendipity?). But I can assure you that the "Rock Star" thing would not have worked out for me. I ain't no Keith Emerson.
-ERD50
I guess, like a lot of things, I see this in shades of gray. Or, it is a balance between what you like, what you are capable of, and what will make enough money for the lifestyle you are willing to live.

So often I see people advising based upon one of these factors. But they are all important. A potentially lucrative career is no good if you hate it and aren't good at it. Even if you are capable, it is no good if you would hate your work every day because you don't like it. And, if you don't like work, it is hard to do consistently for years what you might need to do to earn enough money.

And, even if you love doing something I wouldn't recommend it for a career if you aren't good at it and/or can't earn a living at it. There are lots of things I love doing that I'm not very good at and it probably wouldn't be a good idea for me to pick them as a career. Sometimes, they might make good hobbies (perhaps a hobby of watching -- it is probably best that I watch baseball games rather than attempting to play).

So, yes, do what you love doesn't work if you aren't good at it and can't earn a living with it. But, doing what you hate just because it pays well also doesn't work very well.
__________________
Katsmeow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 01:35 AM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: North of Montana
Posts: 2,753
I'm with the "do what you love" bunch. In my youth (starting at about 16) I worked at a gravel pit, took over the family farm, worked in a medical lab and a few others.

A couple of these inspired me a bit. When I went off to the U, I enrolled in pre-med, inspired by the lab job. After 1 year, I didn't get accepted to med school and fell into computers (circa 1970). Loved it but got a degree in chemistry anyway.

Took a computer job. Lucked out as salaries where high, got a management job with mega-corp (including stock options). Lucked out again as meg-corp shares went through the roof and retired 5 years ago. The key is: I loved my job for >35 of the 40 years I worked. While I didn't hate it for the last few years, it wasn't the same. Liking what you do, wanting to go to work, makes working (and life) a lot more bearable fun. If you have to work, at least enjoy it.

As for the actual advice I've given my kids? It was follow your heart, your wallet will handle it.
- DD went through all the training to join the RCMP. She could be making about $75K today. At the last minute, she decided it wasn't for her and became a probation officer for about $55K.
- DS got a CS degree and a $60 K offer from my former mega-corp. Decided he'd rather dp inbedded code for a small local company for $45K.

DD will never get a financial reward for her choice although she thinks she gets a phsycological one. DS may get a financial reward (all employees get stock options and apparently Cisco is interested in the company). Both will get some satisfaction out of wanting to go to work in the morning.
__________________
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate conclusions from insufficient data and ..
kumquat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 05:16 AM   #27
Recycles dryer sheets
l2ridehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PWC VA
Posts: 126
I am on the board of fairly large college and get to speak to lots of college students. This is a very common question and I believe there are two correct answers.

First answer is to follow your heart, do what you love so work becomes fun.

Second answer, and if you really want to make money, learn Spanish and Mandarin and be fluent in both, and get a Master degree in International Business. As the world gets smaller, the demand for this skill set will continue to grow. The financial rewards have almost no upward limit. And you get to travel the world on an expense account.
__________________
l2ridehd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 09:10 AM   #28
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 166
Great responses here, I'm contemplating sharing this with our college age kids. We have done many of the things suggested, one other thing we did was to offer them aptitude testing. It can help them understand what they are good at and what jobs those skills might apply to. It costs a few hundred dollars and is only another input, but it was very helpful for two out of the three. The other one is very bright and had no particular attribute that suggested he should look for a career with a particular skill or without it.
Of course you then get successful people who are contrarians - appear to be ill-suited but excel.
__________________
nil illegitimus carborundum
F M All is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 09:33 AM   #29
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 3,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by l2ridehd View Post
And you get to travel the world on an expense account.
Funny; that's the life I lived for many years and the primary reason I retired before "normal age" (whatever that is).

Sometimes a benefit (or too much of it) is not an advantage at all ...
__________________
rescueme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 09:41 AM   #30
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by rescueme View Post
Funny; that's the life I lived for many years and the primary reason I retired before "normal age" (whatever that is).

Sometimes a benefit (or too much of it) is not an advantage at all ...
I hated doing that as well, more than I can possibly articulate.

I think this is one of those "different strokes for different folks" cases, since some people seem absolutely rabid for travel. But who knows if any one individual kid wants to travel or not, or even knows yet how he/she feels about it?
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 11:13 AM   #31
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Jay_Gatsby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,719
Do whatever you want, but always have a plan that leads to success. A bonus would be having a plan that makes sense to other people, just in case you need to get a *job*.
__________________
Jay_Gatsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 11:59 AM   #32
Full time employment: Posting here.
ShortInSeattle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by l2ridehd
First answer is to follow your heart, do what you love so work becomes fun.
.
I got that advice from my father and it's served me well. I do love my job. I do think it's good to add in a conversation about lifestyle and the financial consequences of various choices.

I have a cousin who got a private college education in Creative Writing (what she loves) and ended up going back to her supermarket job with 80k in debt. She "pursued her dreams" pretty blindly IMO.
I have a sibling who quit a high paying job to live a modest lifestyle as a stay at home Mom, and she is pleased with her choice despite the big drop in household income. She made her choice with open eyes.

In short, I think there is nothing wrong with choosing a low paying career that you love, so long as you know what it means in dollar and lifestyle terms. Informed choices come from looking at all the angles. I've always wanted both - good pay and a job I love. I've done just one or the other and it didn't cut it.

"Do what you love AND be prepared to accept the income/lifestyle your choice will produce."

SIS
__________________
ShortInSeattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 12:14 PM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Onward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,664
If he's starting early, and his main priority is financial independence, it's easy. Get a degree that gets him into a well-paying field. LBYM, and save and invest a big chunk of each check. Retire early a multi-millionaire, and flip Kyosaki the bird!

If he has an entrepeneurial bent, he can go that route too, and possibly hit it really big, though only a minority of people truly have that bent.

A couple of things about "following your passion," which is how I, somewhat regretfully, played the game: the experience of studying a subject in school has nothing to do with the real-life, day-to-day experience of w*rking in the analogous field.

Also, your passion at age 25 is almost never your passion at 40.
__________________
And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know.
Onward is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 05:09 PM   #34
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,435
This "do what you love" nonsense is way overplayed. I blame it on the baby boomer zeitgeist. Maybe your kid will be in the small % of people that actually make a living from something they love, but most people I know do not "love" what they do, so I think the odds are against that. Personally, I would rather keep the things that I love as hobbies, and not work, because even fun things can become tiresome if you have to do them all the time.

More realistic advice is to tell your kid to find the intersection of these elements:

1. What are you good at?
2. What do you like to do?
3. What will people pay you to do?

For me, this process involved part-time work in HS, part-time work in college, and internships every summer until I graduated.
__________________
soupcxan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 05:23 PM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupcxan View Post
This "do what you love" nonsense is way overplayed. I blame it on the baby boomer zeitgeist. Maybe your kid will be in the small % of people that actually make a living from something they love, but most people I know do not "love" what they do, so I think the odds are against that. Personally, I would rather keep the things that I love as hobbies, and not work, because even fun things can become tiresome if you have to do them all the time.

More realistic advice is to tell your kid to find the intersection of these elements:

1. What are you good at?
2. What do you like to do?
3. What will people pay you to do?

For me, this process involved part-time work in HS, part-time work in college, and internships every summer until I graduated.
I like the three questions approach. But i would add:

If you choose a path that involves sitting in a cube all day, have a plan for escape after a decade.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 05:32 PM   #36
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupcxan View Post
...
2. What do you like to do?....
Sometimes getting paid to do what you like to do (or majoring in it in college) turns it into an obligation/responsibility/deadline-oriented task, and it becomes something you won't like to do anymore.
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 06:16 PM   #37
Recycles dryer sheets
Retch The Grate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Mountain View
Posts: 252
I definitely went the do what I love route, rather than revenue maximizing route in my career. Seems perfectly viable to me, I'm not rich, but I love going to work each day, my challenges are interesting, I get to dress how I like, dye my hair the colors I enjoy, and I'm on track to be FI nice and early.

Anecdotal, sure, but in general in my industry people are here because they love making games, not because it was the revenue maximizing career choice for them.
__________________
Retch The Grate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 08:29 PM   #38
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,137
It is intimidating trying to pick just one course for your life when you are still a teenager. I think one of the key messages you can give your son is that he doesn't have to do that -- life is long and he can try many different things. I have been a naval officer, a nuclear engineer and a lawyer. I've enjoyed all of them and found things to hate about all of them. Mostly, I'm glad I tried to follow my bliss where it seemed to lead.

In order to do something like this, however, he'll need to LBYM from the very start, so that he won't be locked into any job and can afford to make a change when it seems right, go back to school, etc. He should make educational choices that keep the most number of options open (as, for instance, when a music performance major is also advised to get a teaching certificate). But most importantly, whatever he does, he should throw himself into it and do it as well as he possibly can. A half-hearted attempt will not provide him with clear feedback as to whether he should stick with it or try something new.

As far as money goes, it has been my experience that there is a tipping point. If you make less than that, you are unhappy because you can't really afford your life. Once you cross that line, however, making more doesn't make you any happier.
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 08:57 PM   #39
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Marco island
Posts: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by retire@40
My son asked me for my advice on how he should make money during his life. Do I tell him to be a doctor, lawyer, etc? Or, do I advise him to take a chance and start a business?

I know it's ultimately something he has to decide for himself and enjoy, but as his most trusted advisor, what should I recommend?

I think the easy way out for me would be to direct him toward the path of least risk and highest benefit such as becoming an MD. Yet part of me wants him to take a calculated risk and start a business or find a way of making money without having to depend on getting paid an hourly rate, thus limiting his earning capacity.

Most of the successful people I know have become rich from their own business or investing on real estate. Yet I also know many people that have tried this and failed miserably.

I think the goal is to find something to earn money that does not depend on your own work hours. In a way I'm thinking of what I would do if I could be a teen again knowing what I know now.
Typically, about a third of all incoming freshmen are premed. A classmate of mine is dean of admissions at the University of Florida College of Dentistry. She received 15 thousand applications for 85 spots last year. Medical, Dental, and Vet schools are extremely competitive. If your son is bright enough and motivated enough to get into med school, I wouldn't worry about him.
__________________
Gatordoc50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 07:18 AM   #40
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
It is intimidating trying to pick just one course for your life when you are still a teenager. I think one of the key messages you can give your son is that he doesn't have to do that -- life is long and he can try many different things.
It is hard. I still remember graduating from HS and not having clear direction to go in. I was thinking about law enforcement, but not sure about that, and thinking about enlisting in either Navy or Air Force but thought perhaps college would be better.

So I unloaded trucks for the first fall after HS while I thought about it, and decided to go to the community college first and if I didn't like it I could enlist but that didn't work the other way around.

One of the neat things about law enforcement careers is the wide variety of jobs within it. I know some guys who kept the same employer and had a half a dozen different jobs.

I was a patrol officer, financial fraud investigator, and computer forensic examiner. Other possibilities are media relations (the one you see on TV after some event) school liaisons, aircraft pilots, evidence technicians, grant researchers and statistical analysis.

And of course almost any large organization is going to have the same variety of opportunities.
__________________

__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:53 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.