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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 10-31-2006, 06:40 PM   #21
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Re: Advice from physicians...

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
An umbrella would be a good idea, but the bigger risk is from malpractice lawsuits (for which OP is undoubtedly insured).

Az, believe it or not, it is far more likely that an adult will be disabled than die in the time between ages 21 and 65. Yet many more people have life insurance than disability insurance. I think DI for O and his spouse is more about protecting the value of their human capital than protecting their standard of living.
The malpractice insurance went without saying. No doctor goes without that. Heck, i doubt any hospital would let them work there without it. But, i presume both the hospital as well as the individual has "policies".

Now you're confusing my original point; of course he's more likely to be disabled than to die. Again, if he were the only breadwinner, i'd highly recommend he (or his spouse, depending on who was working) have disability. But i'm hardly sympathetic about a situation where they would only have one medical doctor bringing in income in the event that one became disabled.

Sure, they both have tremendous "human capitol" but the policy for preserving that much higher level of capitol naturally will cost comparably more so it basically nullifies out that point. Does that make sense? Said another way, the price for a disability policy for me to preserve what i make cost considerably less than what his would cost to preserve his, so the added cost offsets the added risk. The essential decision is unaffected by that factor.

It wouldnt be a horrible decision to buy an expensive disability policy, but i guess i just dont like betting against myself, especially when it isnt necessary (two breadwinners, either of which could fully, and comfortably support a family). These normally aren't thought of as being expensive, but (without checking), i'm going to assume that a policy that could pump out a quarter of a million per year (or whatever they make each) for life is going to cost quite a bit.
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 10-31-2006, 07:50 PM   #22
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Re: Advice from physicians...

Simple. Live within your means. Socking away 200k a year you a simple set. Take it easy dont think you need the most expensive things in the world and enjoy life. Thats the all the advice you need.
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 10-31-2006, 08:07 PM   #23
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Re: Advice from physicians...

I don't really have anything to add but feel obligated to respond.

My wife is also a doc (pediatrician) but our financial situation has not compared with yours. We made less money, had children, and may have had a relatively higher initial debt load. We don't live extravagantly (compared to peers) but until the last few years our savings were limited to maximizing pre-tax accounts and paying off debt. We're unlikely to face malpractice suits. We expect to 'retire' within 2 years, late fifties. We're not sure if this will be permanent retirement or a sabbatical.

My only advice is a general echo of much that you've already heard here. Try to maximize your enjoyment of life. Live for today, plan for tomorrow. An ER doc knows better than most about what can happen to the best laid plans...
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 06:56 AM   #24
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Re: Advice from physicians...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azanon
Now you're confusing my original point; of course he's more likely to be disabled than to die. Again, if he were the only breadwinner, i'd highly recommend he (or his spouse, depending on who was working) have disability. But i'm hardly sympathetic about a situation where they would only have one medical doctor bringing in income in the event that one became disabled.

Sure, they both have tremendous "human capitol" but the policy for preserving that much higher level of capitol naturally will cost comparably more so it basically nullifies out that point. Does that make sense? Said another way, the price for a disability policy for me to preserve what i make cost considerably less than what his would cost to preserve his, so the added cost offsets the added risk. The essential decision is unaffected by that factor.
Let me try this another way. Why do most of us have auto and homeowners' insurance property coverage? Because the potential loss of a large assset would be too costly for us to bear. Now imagine an asset that took you most of a decade and upwards of $200k to acquire. Wanna take that risk? Not me.
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 07:13 AM   #25
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Re: Advice from physicians...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Let me try this another way. Why do most of us have auto and homeowners' insurance property coverage? Because the potential loss of a large assset would be too costly for us to bear. Now imagine an asset that took you most of a decade and upwards of $200k to acquire. Wanna take that risk? Not me.
I totally agree... a disability policy is 'cheap'... I have one that would pay $70k a year and cost about $35 per month... so say a bit more than $100 to $120 a month for him... peanuts considering his salary...

And if you do not have the policy and one gets disabled... then it puts a huge strain on the other mostly because the costs of care will be high and they will not be able to save... so THEIR life is now ruined also... they will have to work until they die etc.... all to save a few bucks Doesn't add up to me..
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 07:28 AM   #26
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Re: Advice from physicians...

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Originally Posted by Texas Proud
And if you do not have the policy and one gets disabled... then it puts a huge strain on the other mostly because the costs of care will be high and they will not be able to save... so THEIR life is now ruined also... they will have to work until they die etc.... all to save a few bucks Doesn't add up to me..
I bet the policy would cost a touch more than that, given how often DI insurers have ben burned insuring physicians. But its not likely to be a crippling or even noticeable amount.

Its simple, Tex: you don't live in Az-land. It all makes sense there.
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 08:19 AM   #27
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Re: Advice from physicians...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Let me try this another way. Why do most of us have auto and homeowners' insurance property coverage? Because the potential loss of a large assset would be too costly for us to bear. Now imagine an asset that took you most of a decade and upwards of $200k to acquire. Wanna take that risk? Not me.
Speak for yourself. I have a auto and homeowner's policy because i have no choice in the matter. In the state of Arkansas, it is illegal not to carry at least liability, and i usually drop full coverage by the 3rd or 4th year of the car's life (from brand new). I have a homeowner's policy because my bank is one of those weird ones..... you know, like every other bank, that requires you to have a homeowner's policy to protect their house because it isn't paid for yet.

Ive already answered whether or not id have the disability if both my spouse and i were doctors, so i see no point in going in circles. I see that you'd have the policy anyway. I wouldn't. Most likely (dang, used up my understatement already), i'd come out better.
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 08:22 AM   #28
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Re: Advice from physicians...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
I totally agree... a disability policy is 'cheap'... I have one that would pay $70k a year and cost about $35 per month... so say a bit more than $100 to $120 a month for him... peanuts considering his salary...

And if you do not have the policy and one gets disabled... then it puts a huge strain on the other mostly because the costs of care will be high and they will not be able to save... so THEIR life is now ruined also... they will have to work until they die etc.... all to save a few bucks Doesn't add up to me..
> So only 100-120 wasted per month.
> I see someone's never heard of health insurance. You think 2 medical doctors dont carry a solid health insurance policy? What an entertaining comment.
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 08:24 AM   #29
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Re: Advice from physicians...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
I bet the policy would cost a touch more than that, given how often DI insurers have ben burned insuring physicians. But its not likely to be a crippling or even noticeable amount.

Its simple, Tex: you don't live in Az-land. It all makes sense there.
You sided with someone who assumed the doctors didn't have health insurance. I like how, all by yourself, you tell on yourself.

Only nutcases and poor people dont carry health insurance. *

* If this insults someone i'm sorry. I'm just being truthful, you know.. like Kerry was yesterday. The two exceptions I listed cant help the sitation, and i'm not being unsympathetic. But if you 1. dont have health insurance and 2. you're not a nutcase/not poor - then consider my comment a wakeup call and get health insurance ASAP
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 08:53 AM   #30
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Re: Advice from physicians...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azanon
> So only 100-120 wasted per month.
> I see someone's never heard of health insurance. You think 2 medical doctors dont carry a solid health insurance policy? What an entertaining comment.
He said "the costs of care" would be onerous. Little hint just for you: outside of Az-land (where everything is perfect and nobody gets disabled or dies prematurely), disabled people often have very long term care requirements that aren't covered by health insurance.
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 09:03 AM   #31
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Re: Advice from physicians...

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
He said "the costs of care" would be onerous. Little hint just for you: outside of Az-land (where everything is perfect and nobody gets disabled or dies prematurely), disabled people often have very long term care requirements that aren't covered by health insurance.
Maybe not by your policy. My Fed blue policy would cover pretty much every major health issue indefinitely. In Brewer-land, you have substandard health insurance.

I see you continue to generalize the disability argument (comments about no one getting disabled) as if to suggest their situation isnt a "special case". You'll be naive until the day you are pushing up daisies, i presume.
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 09:10 AM   #32
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Re: Advice from physicians...

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Originally Posted by Azanon
You'll be naive until the day you are pushing up daisies, i presume.
I imagine I will leave the "naive" part to others to judge. But at least my wife and kids won't be picking out a new daddy just to make ends meet when I shuffle off this mortal coil.
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 09:20 AM   #33
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Re: Advice from physicians...

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I imagine I will leave the "naive" part to others to judge. But at least my wife and kids won't be picking out a new daddy just to make ends meet when I shuffle off this mortal coil.
Huh? Little bits about me; I have a generous dad worth over 3 mil now that loves my wife and child. My net worth just passed a quarter mil at just 35 (and growing rapidly; on track for one mil by 45). My wife has an LCSW and is working. And, i have life insurance. Who the hell do you think you're talking to?

I'd want her to remarry anyway. You want your wife to be lonely after you leave? Damn, you're cruel.
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 09:23 AM   #34
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Re: Advice from physicians...

Can't we all just get along?
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 09:25 AM   #35
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Re: Advice from physicians...

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Can't we all just get along?
Maybe if someone takes his meds. Don't hold your breath.
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 10:15 AM   #36
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Re: Advice from physicians...

You guys crack me up...........

Hey if Azanon wants to self-insure, why not? Just keep in mind Murphy's Law strikes everyone.

Maybe if I had $10,000,000 and lived on $30,000 a year, I'd self-insure............

Nah, for about $3000 a year, I have full coverage on 2 vehicles, a $5 million umbrella, replacement cost on my house and posessions, $2 million in life insurance, and a supplemental DI polic for DW and I.

$250 a month..........the HORROR!!!!!!!
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 10:59 AM   #37
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Re: Advice from physicians...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azanon
Maybe not by your policy. My Fed blue policy would cover pretty much every major health issue indefinitely. In Brewer-land, you have substandard health insurance.

I see you continue to generalize the disability argument (comments about no one getting disabled) as if to suggest their situation isnt a "special case". You'll be naive until the day you are pushing up daisies, i presume.
1. Most health policies DO NOT cover many of the aspects of disability such as home care

2. I have a friend who is an ER doc. Here in Chicago he makes $120/hour. Assuming the OP makes about the same that means he is making (2 Docs X 12 shifts x 11 hours x $120 x 12 months = $380,160 P/Y an individual non-cancellable DI policy on both of you is a total no brainer.

AZ the total cost both explicit and opportunity cost is probably around $500K for each of them (for the education part). The capitalized value of their potential incomes is probably around $6,000,000 or more. You're telling me you wouldn't spend $5-7K a year to insure that? Talk about foolish.

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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 11:00 AM   #38
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Re: Advice from physicians...

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Talk about foolish.

Not in Az-land. The purple unicorns won't let anyone become disabled, so DI is a waste.
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 11:09 AM   #39
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Re: Advice from physicians...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azanon
Maybe not by your policy. My Fed blue policy would cover pretty much every major health issue indefinitely. In Brewer-land, you have substandard health insurance.
Az - you better check the terms more carefully. I have a Fed Blue policy and I sprung for the Fed LTC insurance. BC/BS does not adequately cover long term care issues. It may not matter to you now but you will begin to tune in later. There is a whole nother argument about whether to buy LTC insurance or cover your own costs but that does not negate the fact that the issue applies to you.
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Re: Advice from physicians...
Old 11-01-2006, 11:14 AM   #40
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Re: Advice from physicians...

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Originally Posted by FinanceDude
You guys crack me up...........

Hey if Azanon wants to self-insure, why not? Just keep in mind Murphy's Law strikes everyone.

Maybe if I had $10,000,000 and lived on $30,000 a year, I'd self-insure............

Nah, for about $3000 a year, I have full coverage on 2 vehicles, a $5 million umbrella, replacement cost on my house and posessions, $2 million in life insurance, and a supplemental DI polic for DW and I.

$250 a month..........the HORROR!!!!!!!
Where did i say i self-insurse anything of significance? I have health, life, home, auto, and disability. I've got Murphy covered from every angle.

I have full coverage now on both vehicles (cause they're a near new 04' VW, and new 07' fit). I only drop full coverage after the FMV drops low enough that it minus my 1K dollar deductable is something i can cover in the worst case. Wanna guess how many "at-fault" accidents in a car i've had since i've been alive? (I'll give you a hint; think "goose-egg")

I assume your net worth is at least 5 million, if you have a 5 million dollar umbrella policy. if not, keep that to yourself cause you'd look pretty foolish.

2 million in life? You wife must not be a "9" like mine is or have a masters degree and working. I could (hehe, and probably would) be replaced by any number of men that would be more than willing to take on that hard job. (of course she's a 10 to me cause i love her, but just being strictly unbiased and going on physical alone - she's a 9. Semantics really since a hot babe is a hot babe)

Sure all that's only 250 a month? Just my family health insurance alone is 180 a month, and that's with the federal government paying 75% of it. I'm guessing your "math challenged". And that's a little scary given that i recall you're a financial advisor


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