Americans need to work longer...

Like marshac, I assume I am getting nothing but the shaft from SS. It amazes me to think that so many others believe otherwise.
 
Actually most economists very familar with the coming crunch, believe that SS will endure. Pretty much the same for those over 50 today. It probably will have modifications in the future for those under 40.  Those that are 40-50 years old today could go either way.

The real problem is medicare as far as Social Services. This is a much bigger nut to crack. The U.S. needs to attack this problem. Clinton tried it in 1994, but the Insurance companies masterfly put together a campaign to get us where we at today. (i.e. Record profits for them)
 
I suspect that we will not see a solution to the Medicare problem unless we find a solution to the healthcare problem.
 
Like marshac, I assume I am getting nothing but the shaft from SS.  It amazes me to think that so many others believe otherwise.
I used to think so too, but then it dawned on me that future retirees will probably be even more dependent on social security than current retirees (many of whom have pensions).

So, it's a safe bet that you'll get a nice chunk of social security when you're eligible. Which means it's also a safe bet that they'll have to fix the underfunding problem. Which probably means that your taxes will go up and your eligibility age will go up.
 
I suspect that we will not see a solution to the Medicare problem unless we find a solution to the healthcare problem.

The problem is that we need to make healthcare cheaper. Cheaper procedures (such as outpatient surgery), cheaper drugs, cheaper treatments.

Everyone is suffering from the healthcare costs crunch, not just the US but also Canada, Europe and Japan, especially as populations age.

Rough prediction is that we'll see a huge emphasis on reducing the costs of health care.


Back to SS: it's going to be means tested, so most of us won't see a penny. I'm not even counting it in my retirement plans, otherwise I'd be retiring a few years earlier.
 
Personally, I don't even factor SS into my retirement planning... I know many people here do, but if SS went away (or the full benefit age was raise to 72), how would this affect your ER goals?

If the pols decide to make up any shortfall by raising taxes then it could indirectly affect your ER by leaving you with less in your pocket. I too ignore SS from the benefit side. The contribution side is what could really cause problems.

Robert
 
I used to think so too, but then it dawned on me that future retirees will probably be even more dependent on social security than current retirees (many of whom have pensions).

So, it's a safe bet that you'll get a nice chunk of social security when you're eligible.   Which means it's also a safe bet that they'll have to fix the underfunding problem.    Which probably means that your taxes will go up and your eligibility age will go up.

Like I said, we will be getting the shaft. Instead of what I am currently supposed to be entitled to for the taxes I currently pay, I will be offered benefits of vastly reduced value for a significant increase in taxes. Sounds like a great deal! (Not)
 
Like I said, we will be getting the shaft.  Instead of what I am currently supposed to be entitled to for the taxes I currently pay, I will be offered benefits of vastly reduced value for a significant increase in taxes.  Sounds like a great deal! (Not)


Look at what is happening today. We borrowed the money for the Iraq War and also had a Tax Cut with the majority of it going to the very top of the income brackets.

Who do you think is going to have to pay that debt off? If we don't start paying as we go, the government will print money and your nest egg will shrink because of inflation. So this way, elected officials can keep the promise of "We will not raise taxes" and "We'll even give you a Tax Cut". These are great deals also, right!

As long as the American people keep believing in the Easter Bunny, there will be a politician there with a magic act.
 
Look at what is happening today. We borrowed the money for the Iraq War and also had a Tax Cut with the majority of it going to the very top of the income brackets.

Who do you think is going to have to pay that debt off? If we don't start paying as we go, the government will print money and your nest egg will shrink because of inflation. So this way, elected officials can keep the promise of "We will not raise taxes" and "We'll even give you a Tax Cut". These are great deals also, right!

As long as the American people keep believing in the Easter Bunny, there will be a politician there with a magic act.

Agreed, but what can one do about it? Politicians are like elephants. My economics professor always said that elephants are what they are: they tear up the jungle, uproot trees, etc. That doesn't make them bad, just elephants. I guess I'd rather see poaching of politicians rather than elephants, though.
 
I know so many people my age (30s, even 40s) who still believe that Social Security will be there for them and will provide them with a comfortable existence.
 
Maybe Americans need to die earlier!

Many of today's spending programs, tax deductions, & govt investments have been indexed to inflation. It may not be very accurate and it's certainly subject to manipulation but it's better than nothing.

Imagine if Social Security benefits were indexed to the American lifespan. You wouldn't start drawing benefits until you reached an age with the same mortality that age 65 meant in 1935. For me (approaching age 44 today) that might mean I wouldn't start drawing SS until I was 72. Of course there'd be regional differences, many volunteers would be asked to "die early" to lower their demographic's numbers, and I'm sure enterprising criminals would try to manipulate the system. But it'd sure encourage workers to start saving their own money and to stop counting on SS to save them!

I can't remember-- are Congressional salaries subject to SS/Medicare tax?
 
Re: Maybe Americans need to die earlier!

. . .
I can't remember-- are Congressional salaries subject to SS/Medicare tax?

The answer I have heard to this question is, "no". They have their own (well-funded) system that allows them to opt out of social security entirely.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. :)
 
Re: Maybe Americans need to die earlier!

The answer I have heard to this question is, "no".  They have their own (well-funded) system that allows them to opt out of social security entirely.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.   :)

That screed about politicians and SS usually comes in the form of an email along with other political ranting usually from the far right side. It is as usual wrong. Have a look at this for the debunking.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.asp
 
Like marshac, I assume I am getting nothing but the shaft from SS.  It amazes me to think that so many others believe otherwise.

It's hard for me to imagine a scenario where social security will go away entirely.

- According to government statistics nearly half of all Americans over the age of 65 would be below the poverty level without social security benefits.

- Information I've read about savings rates of most of the work force today indicates that these people are not any better prepared to support themselves in retirement than their parents and grandparents.

- Politicians seem too gutless to even address the problem today although solutions that involve relatively minor changes in benefits and taxes are available.

So for social security to be dropped, we are going to have to suddenly elect some new breed of politician that is willing to pass legislation that will put millions of retirees (one of the most likely groups to go vote) below the poverty level.

It may happen, but I'm guessing it is far more likely that they will reduce benefits and raise taxes. :)
 
This is probably an unpopular view for improving SS, but I'd like to see the SS retirement age tied to life expectancy. We are living considerably longer than folks did when SS was instituted.

On a similar topic in this thread, here is an interesting article about escalating medical costs. In part these costs are going up because the care is getting better. Interesting.

http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/sto...745-4DB2-A41F-E92BD0C40863}&garden=&minisite=

Cheers,

Chris
 
- Politicians seem too gutless to even address the problem today although solutions that involve relatively minor changes in benefits and taxes are available.

The ones with guts would never get elected, so you cannot blame the politicans. It's the people that vote them into office.
 
Re: Maybe Americans need to die earlier!

That screed about politicians and SS usually comes in the form of an email along with other political ranting usually from the far right side.  It is as usual wrong.  Have a look at this for the debunking.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.asp

Thanks for the correction and the link. Although far from the right politically, I did receive one of these messages several years ago. As I read the debunking page you linked to, I recognized the note. :)
 
The ones with guts would never get elected, so you cannot blame the politicans. It's the people that vote them into office.

Hi cut-throat,

That's a good point. I certainly agree with you that voters are responsible for this mess, too.

I do believe there are reasons why politicians share extra responsibility for this problem. I don't really expect every voter in this country to be able go through national spending and budget numbers, analyze them, and draw the appropriate conclusions about taxing and spending of social security benefits. It might be nice if they were capable and willing to do that, but it's not realistic to believe that it ever will. Part of the responsibility of our elected representatives is to elevate issues and educate their constituents on critical aspects of government that need to be improved. When elected officials almost universally ignore social security funding, it leads a large number of voters to believe that the problem must not be that bad. To me, this is just as irrisponsible as when a politician exagerates or makes up an issue in order to get votes. :)
 
Re: Maybe Americans need to die earlier!

Thanks for the correction and the link.   Although far from the right politically, I did receive one of these messages several years ago.  As I read the debunking page you linked to, I recognized the note. :)

Not my intention to suggest that you were "far right politically" but that most of these email screeds tend to be slanted that way. In the case of those SS ones they were often coupled with some mention of the Clintons and blaming them for that situation. I have yet to see them firing around similar ones lambasting Bush for the same imagined situation.

Snopes is a pretty good source for debunking (or verifying sometimes) these generally fantastical claims.
 
I keep going back to the SS projections:

"In 2017, we'll begin paying more in benefits than we collect in taxes. By 2041, the trust fund will be exhausted and the payroll taxes collected will be enough to pay only about 73% of benefits owed."

So 37 years from now we get a cut of 27%. By then many of us will be dead. I'd rather take my chances on a 27% cut in 37 years, when I'm 89, than see the pols slash the benefits I'm banking on in 10 years.

Cut-Throat, where did you get the information about those over 50 being spared the benefits of any new "reforms". I sure hope you're right.
 
The real problem is medicare as far as Social Services. This is a much bigger nut to crack. The U.S. needs to attack this problem. Clinton tried it in 1994, but the Insurance companies masterfly put together a campaign to get us where we at today. (i.e. Record profits for them)

Here's an interesting perspective:

America's Failing Health
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: August 27, 2004

Working Americans have two great concerns: the growing difficulty of getting health insurance, and the continuing difficulty they have in finding jobs. These concerns may have a common cause: soaring insurance premiums.

In most advanced countries, the government provides everyone with health insurance. In America, however, the government offers insurance only if you're elderly (Medicare) or poor (Medicaid). Otherwise, you're expected to get private health insurance, usually through your job. But insurance premiums are exploding, and the system of employment-linked insurance is falling apart.

Some employers have dropped their health plans. Others have maintained benefits for current workers, but are finding ways to avoid paying benefits to new hires - for example, by using temporary workers. And some businesses, while continuing to provide health benefits, are refusing to hire more workers.

In other words, rising health care costs aren't just causing a rapid rise in the ranks of the uninsured (confirmed by yesterday's Census Bureau report); they're also, because of their link to employment, a major reason why this economic recovery has generated fewer jobs than any previous economic expansion.

Clearly, health care reform is an urgent social and economic issue. But who has the right answer?

The 2004 Economic Report of the President told us what George Bush's economists think, though we're unlikely to hear anything as blunt at next week's convention. According to the report, health costs are too high because people have too much insurance and purchase too much medical care. What we need, then, are policies, like tax-advantaged health savings accounts tied to plans with high deductibles, that induce people to pay more of their medical expenses out of pocket. (Cynics would say that this is just a rationale for yet another tax shelter for the wealthy, but the economists who wrote the report are probably sincere.)

John Kerry's economic advisers have a very different analysis: they believe that health costs are too high because private insurance companies have excessive overhead, mainly because they are trying to avoid covering high-risk patients. What we need, according to this view, is for the government to assume more of the risk, for example by picking up catastrophic health costs, thereby reducing the incentive for socially wasteful spending, and making employment-based insurance easier to get.

A smart economist can come up with theoretical justifications for either argument. The evidence suggests, however, that the Kerry position is much closer to the truth.

The fact is that the mainly private U.S. health care system spends far more than the mainly public health care systems of other advanced countries, but gets worse results. In 2001, we spent $4,887 on health care per capita, compared with $2,792 in Canada and $2,561 in France. Yet the U.S. does worse than either country by any measure of health care success you care to name - life expectancy, infant mortality, whatever. (At its best, U.S. health care is the best in the world. But the ranks of Americans who can't afford the best, and may have no insurance at all, are large and growing.)

And the U.S. system does have very high overhead: private insurers and H.M.O.'s spend much more on administrative expenses, as opposed to actual medical treatment, than public agencies at home or abroad.

Does this mean that the American way is wrong, and that we should switch to a Canadian-style single-payer system? Well, yes. Put it this way: in Canada, respectable business executives are ardent defenders of "socialized medicine." Two years ago the Conference Board of Canada - a who's who of the nation's corporate elite - issued a report urging fellow Canadians to bear in mind not just the "symbolic value" of universal health care, but its "economic contribution to the competitiveness of Canadian businesses."

My health-economist friends say that it's unrealistic to call for a single-payer system here: the interest groups are too powerful, and the antigovernment propaganda of the right has become too well established in public opinion. All that we can hope for right now is a modest step in the right direction, like the one Mr. Kerry is proposing. I bow to their political wisdom. But let's not ignore the growing evidence that our dysfunctional medical system is bad not just for our health, but for our economy.
 
All the social security administration needs to do is equip 10% of the benefit checks with an explosive device.
:eek:
 
Cut-Throat, where did you get the information about those over 50 being spared the benefits of any new "reforms". I sure hope you're right.

It's not exactly specific information as it is economists musing about how this change will come about.

On almost every article that I have read on this topic, I see economists predicting how we'll reign this problem in. Most all of them agree for any politician to start meddling with Baby Boomers SS will be political suicide. Too big a voting Block and they are all paying attention to SS by this time. Also since a majority of folks are not saving any money these days, the government will have to deal with the problem. Be it, SS, welfare, crime & prisons, panhandling. The problem is coming. Even Berstein acknowledges that the government will be stuck with problem of people not saving enough for retirement. Wabmester elduded to this in one of his posts. It's cheaper for the goverment to hand out checks and let people take care of themselves, than to take care of the problems caused by not handing out checks. Many people have said that a Harvard education is much cheaper than a Stay at a Maximum security prision.

The economists think that what the politicans probably will do is start messing with benefits for the very young, probably the unborn. Most voters being told 'that to protect their SS, we will have to screw the unborn, and very young.' People, being who they are will vote to screw the generations that cannot vote. - It's almost guarenteed! ;)
 
For a great article that talks about the SS problem in a rational, calm, manner get a copy of the special Retirement Planning issue of Kiplinger's on the newstands for a little while longer. (The other parts of the magazine are good also)
 
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