Any luck pushing back?

[Animorph]

My DW has successfully avoided business travel for most of her career. Her bosses always knew she would strongly prefer not to travel, and they worked with her. Every few years she does end up in Malaysia, China, or Finland or all three for a week or two, but most of the time she just works by phone. You never know until you ask. So far it sounds like your boss hasn't had any reason not to ask you to travel.

 

[Nords]

Ironically, despite my moniker, I hated business travel.

I thought your poster name meant "Travel is over!"

Brewer, I think you are entering a similar phase of dissatisfaction and hostility that was manifest during your last job. I see a pattern here. You are very hard to please. Ask nicely before jumping to conclusions and burning bridges. It must be challenging to be your boss.

For those commenting on Brewer's choice of occupation, he's generally not at liberty to discuss the specifics of his employer or his customers. I've met him in his previous work environment (near NYC) and we've corresponded extensively over the years. I think if you walked a mile in his financial occupations then you'd be inclined to lighten up on him a little... while also running away screaming from his employment environment.

Let's just say that he went from a "Masters of the Universe" group of hyperoverworking guys whose work/life ratio trended toward infinity, to a better match for his skill set where coworkers avoided any exertion of effort if at all possible, to an even better match for his skill set where the boss appears to be out of touch. Literally and metaphorically.

I can understand being trained to uphold a professional set of standards, and then being repeatedly disappointed by the [-]chain of command[/-] people I work with/for. It's possible to love what you do while at the same time being disgusted by the bosses and the co-workers with whom you do it. Even today it still annoys the heck out of me to seek a roomful of experts-- only to realize a year or two later that most of them have been at best misled, or at worst are faking it.

I think that one of the things that brings us to this forum is a general dissatisfaction over a lack of autonomy in our workplaces, let alone fulfillment. That dissatisfaction chafes ever more severely when you're "this close!" to FI.

 

[brewer12345]

I think that one of the things that brings us to this forum is a general dissatisfaction over a lack of autonomy in our workplaces, let alone fulfillment. That dissatisfaction chafes ever more severely when you're "this close!" to FI.

That is a very nice summation of what I suspect is the motivation for many, and definitely myself.

I don't expect to be thrilled to work any job; it isn't in my make-up. I have achieved the relative nirvana of lowered expectations and now all I want to do is minimize the pain until I can check out. So I will never be thrilled, but I like to think I am a diligent, hard-working, motivated person who generally delivers more to my various paymasters than I was paid for. It is what it is, I guess.

 

[ShortInSeattle]

I don't plan on delivering an ultimatum, as I have no reason to do so. That said, I can and will walk if they will not play ball. I have small children who miss me when I am away, so this is more important than dollars and cents.

My HR lady perspective is that ultimatums are bad, but an honest talk about consequences are good. I'd suggest getting clear about specifics. What is your goal?

"I want to travel no more than 1 week per month."

The next step is to set a timeline. If the timeline isn't met, you walk. "I want this to happen within six months."

Lastly, decide how/if you want to communicate this to your employer.

You might treat it as a request with no "teeth." "I'm having a very hard time with the travel..."

You might take a hard line and say "I truly love this job and my company, but if my travel requirements stay the same I need to start looking for another position. I don't say this to be disloyal, but I have to be honest. Is the company willing to downshift my travel? Is that even possible?

You might take the middle road and say "I'm getting worried about my travel schedule. I'm not seeing my kids enough, and I can't keep this pace up for another two years. What are my options? I want to make my career here."

Don't hint at leaving if you are bluffing. If you suspect they'll fire you for your honesty, look for another gig quietly. But if there is openness and a good relationship with your manager, being tactfully honest about your intentions may create change. Especially if you are a star.

As always, your mileage may vary.

SIS

 

[brewer12345]

Thanks, SIS. I am not intending to hint just yet that I would leave over this. I would keep that option in reserve in case they don't respond to my initial overture. But I think being concrete about what I want is a really good idea and will give some thought to exactly what I want to say before the discussion happens.

 

[Midpack]

Your posts seem to mix between confrontational and not, so you can understand why some of the responses. In general:

• Obviously leading off with a confrontational approach is never the most effective. Even if you win the battle, you'll probably lose the war. And if your concerns come to your manager as a surprise, that's your fault. Attempting to lay out your concerns and asking to work them out as others have suggested is the best place to start, even if 'hat in hand' is not your style as I suspect. If it doesn't work out, then you can get more aggressive, but that should be the last card you play, not the first or even second. Telling your employer they need you and you can walk can't end well even if it works now/short term. If I was your manager and you approached me like that over issues you'd never even surfaced before, I'd do my best to let you walk. If you're that unhappy, you're better off walking.
• I always liked to maintain as much leverage as possible when negotiating with my employers. If there are pay and/or benefits that vest at year end that you want, I'd really try to avoid getting at all aggressive before then. Not saying you shouldn't act now, but I'd try to avoid getting aggressive before the bennies vest. Shame on you if you give them leverage, why?
• You won't be at your best if you act too soon after an emotional event like your child crying on the phone, though we all understand how painful that would be. Nevertheless, you have to wait until you can be objective again to come to an amenable agreement with your employer. You may already be there.
• With all due respect, while some are certainly harder to replace than others, no one is irreplaceable (yes, I saw Nords post). I've known dozens of people who thought the company would suffer when they left, every one of them were mistaken. Might have been a short term setback, if that. The company did OK before you got there, and they will do OK if you leave no matter how talented/experienced you are.
• Other thoughts come to mind, but earlier posts covered them.
• Having read your posts for years, you know all the above, you just need to reflect and compose yourself to work this out. Unless you want to leave anyway, you may well be able to sort this out to the satisfaction of all concerned. Honey works better than vinegar...no matter what you think of the bees.

 

[brewer12345]

Your posts seem to mix between confrontational and not, so you can understand why some of the responses. In general:

• Obviously leading off with a confrontational approach is never the most effective. Even if you win the battle, you'll probably lose the war. And if your concerns come to your manager as a surprise, that's your fault. Attempting to lay out your concerns and asking to work them out as others have suggested is the best place to start, even if 'hat in hand' is not your style as I suspect. If it doesn't work out, then you can get more aggressive, but that should be the last card you play, not the first or even second. Telling your employer they need you and you can walk can't end well even if it works now/short term. If I was your manager and you approached me like that over issues you'd never even surfaced before, I'd do my best to let you walk. If you're that unhappy, you're better off walking.
• I always liked to maintain as much leverage as possible when negotiating with my employers. If there are pay and/or benefits that vest at year end that you want, I'd really try to avoid getting at all aggressive before then. Not saying you shouldn't act now, but I'd try to avoid getting aggressive before the bennies vest. Shame on you if you give them leverage, why?
• You won't be at your best if you act too soon after an emotional event like your child crying on the phone, though we all understand how painful that would be. Nevertheless, you have to wait until you can be objective again to come to an amenable agreement with your employer. You may already be there.
• With all due respect, while some are certainly harder to replace than others, no one is irreplaceable (yes, I saw Nords post). I've known dozens of people who thought the company would suffer when they left, every one of them were mistaken. Might have been a short term setback, if that. The company did OK before you got there, and they will do OK if you leave no matter how talented/experienced you are.
• Other thoughts come to mind, but earlier posts covered them.
• Having read your posts for years, you know all the above, you just need to reflect and compose yourself to work this out. Unless you want to leave anyway, you may well be able to sort this out to the satisfaction of all concerned. Honey works better than vinegar...no matter what you think of the bees.

Part of the reason I posted initially was to work through some of the frustration and get focused on message/be less confrontational when I talk to my manager. So if I come off as hostile/aggressive, it is because it is relatively safe to do so here ahead of time. I know full well not to go in guns blazing, but I have to be ready to push hard if the initial effort does not work.

Yep, they will find a way to get along without me if it comes to that. As a career-long mercenary I know that full well. That said, they could not replace me and they know it. So I have some leverage if need be.

 

[Midpack]

Part of the reason I posted initially was to work through some of the frustration and get focused on message/be less confrontational when I talk to my manager. So if I come off as hostile/aggressive, it is because it is relatively safe to do so here ahead of time. I know full well not to go in guns blazing, but I have to be ready to push hard if the initial effort does not work.

Yep, they will find a way to get along without me if it comes to that. As a career-long mercenary I know that full well. That said, they could not replace me and they know it. So I have some leverage if need be.

BTW, I meant to close with wishing you the best of luck. I hope the situation will improve for you and family, while keeping your options open with your present employer as long as you hope to. Not an easy situation at all, we can understand how painful missing family can be.

 

[brewer12345]

BTW, I meant to close with wishing you the best of luck. I hope the situation will improve for you and family, while keeping your options open with your present employer as long as you hope to. Not an easy situation at all, we can understand how painful missing family can be.

Thanks. I think that this is a solvable problem, but if not I have no problems walking. Don't think it will come to thatr, at least not in the hsort to medium term.

 

[Purron]

My prior job was very much a "do as you're told" culture. The top people were married to the job and had little interest in employee's families and work/life balance.

I found it best not to try to get them to understand or have sympathy for my needs. Never worked. Rather, I'd focus on what would benefit them.

In your case, it would benefit them to keep you around as you're clearly skilled and get the job done. Present the problem and your proposed solution such as how your job can be done more efficiently and in a less expensive way by traveling less. There are so many alternatives to travel these days. Focus on how less travel will make you more productive and capable of adding more value to the company. Then add how important it is to spend more time with your children. Present yourself as an asset to the company first and a good family man second.

 

[Meadbh]

My prior job was very much a "do as you're told" culture. The top people were married to the job and had little interest in employee's families and work/life balance.

I found it best not to try to get them to understand or have sympathy for my needs. Never worked. Rather, I'd focus on what would benefit them.

In your case, it would benefit them to keep you around as you're clearly skilled and get the job done. Present the problem and your proposed solution such as how your job can be done more efficiently and in a less expensive way by traveling less. There are so many alternatives to travel these days. Focus on how less travel will make you more productive and capable of adding more value to the company. Then add how important it is to spend more time with your children. Present yourself as an asset to the company first and a good family man second.

You nailed it, Purron!

 

[brewer12345]

My prior job was very much a "do as you're told" culture. The top people were married to the job and had little interest in employee's families and work/life balance.

I found it best not to try to get them to understand or have sympathy for my needs. Never worked. Rather, I'd focus on what would benefit them.

In your case, it would benefit them to keep you around as you're clearly skilled and get the job done. Present the problem and your proposed solution such as how your job can be done more efficiently and in a less expensive way by traveling less. There are so many alternatives to travel these days. Focus on how less travel will make you more productive and capable of adding more value to the company. Then add how important it is to spend more time with your children. Present yourself as an asset to the company first and a good family man second.

I generally agree. The awkward twist is that this is an organization that gives a huge amount of lip service to work/life balance.

 

[Purron]

I generally agree. The awkward twist is that this is an organization that gives a huge amount of lip service to work/life balance.

My former employer also gave a lot of lip service to being "family friendly". The reality was far from the pretty facade they put on. So I suggest using your need for work/life balance but keep it less prominent than your desire to get the job done. Ask youself what they want and figure out a way to give it to them while getting what you want.

 

[pb4uski]

Good luck brewer. I found that I only got what I insisted on, and as long as what I insisted on showed a balance between both my personal needs and my employer's business needs I tended to be able to get what I wanted.

 

[brewer12345]

I had a casual conversation with my immediate boss and got my immediate goal, which was a break from the bulk of the travel for the rest of the year. I decided not to pursue the travel schedule for next year as a topic of conversation.

 

[donheff]

I had a casual conversation with my immediate boss and got my immediate goal, which was a break from the bulk of the travel for the rest of the year. I decided not to pursue the travel schedule for next year as a topic of conversation.

Wise decision to leave next year's sleeping dogs lie. Getting things resolved - even if initially just for now - with a casual conversation is ideal.

 

[pb4uski]

I had a casual conversation with my immediate boss and got my immediate goal, which was a break from the bulk of the travel for the rest of the year. I decided not to pursue the travel schedule for next year as a topic of conversation.

Bravo!!! Congratulations. A great first step and you'll have time to ease into the rest of the conversation over time. Good luck.

 

[MichaelB]

Bravo!!! Congratulations. A great first step and you'll have time to ease into the rest of the conversation over time. Good luck.

+1

A good omen for the next conversation.

 

[brewer12345]

Wise decision to leave next year's sleeping dogs lie. Getting things resolved - even if initially just for now - with a casual conversation is ideal.

My buddy I work hand in hand with is seriously thinking about moving on, so I might have a lot more leverage if that comes to pass. Might as well wait until they are in a panic to keep me.

 

[Gone4Good]

I had a casual conversation with my immediate boss and got my immediate goal, which was a break from the bulk of the travel for the rest of the year. I decided not to pursue the travel schedule for next year as a topic of conversation.

Congrats.

After scanning your comments in this thread I'm left to wonder whether you've possibly arrived at a more permanent solution than you realize. I get the impression that your workload up to this point is at least partly due to your willingness to quietly "take one for the team" - a situation that has now been corrected.

When faced with managing a group of workers, some of whom b!tch about everything and others who get the job done without complaint, the natural tendency is to load up the competent non-complainers. Partly that is due to the manager's desire to limit his own pain. But it's also due to the fact that the manager doesn't know you're being worked too hard unless you tell him.

Sometimes all it takes is a little communication to fix such problems.

 

[rescueme]

Two "turning points" in my life resulted in the statement "you have two options - the front door, or the back door".

In both cases (the latter, pertaining to much travel over many years) I made the decision to take either door.

I feel that I'm responsible for my happiness in life - no one (or no organization) is.

You can either accept what is offered, or reject it and go on (through a door); that option is up to you.

BTW, both "exits" in my case resulted in a much better outcome, in the long run.

Just my simple POV on the subject of the thread...

 

[Meadbh]

Congratulations Brewer. The problem has been temporarily addressed and if there is to be an increase in your travel later it will have to be with your agreement.

 

[Brat]

Assuming you have negotiated the travel issue to your satisfaction there is no need to look elsewhere. However, always keep your exit options viable.

 

[brewer12345]

Assuming you have negotiated the travel issue to your satisfaction there is no need to look elsewhere. However, always keep your exit options viable.

That has always been my watchword and countersign. I never understood the motivations of employees who did not maintain their potential mobility and make sure their employer recognized it.

 

[Midpack]

Outstanding. You kept your options open and got the reduction in travel you were after. Now you can let your bennies vest and see the family more in the meantime. Happy to hear the outcome was good for both parties for now at least. Well done!