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Old 11-12-2008, 07:19 PM   #21
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I think you need to be 50 for an early out package, and I'm only 42. I can do MRA+10 at age 56, or full retirement at age 60. I'm FERS.
I think fed early outs typically require you to be age 50 with 20 years service or any age with at least 25 years service.
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Old 11-12-2008, 07:24 PM   #22
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see page 4 here
https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdfimage/ri90-11.pdf
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:05 PM   #23
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I was looking through this thread, and until I saw MSN I hadn't seen a single acronym I could understand. I think the foreign language forum is at a different location. It's like wandering into one of Nords' military benefits threads.
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:28 AM   #24
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I'm FERS with 12(d). I get to leave with 20 years and still be young enough to be considered late early retirement. Much better than the not retiring until 66 that was expected.

12(d) is FERS version of the CSRS 6(c) explained by Texarkandy.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:16 AM   #25
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david1961

hi david, congrats u're doing so great for your age. you could be my role model. do you mind sharing with us what is your secret of success with a fed job and such an achievement in your nw? did you started at a very high grade or did you switching tsp around or saved every single dime? thanks

enuff
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:39 PM   #26
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Transation:

FERS is the Federal Employee Retirement System. It is similar to private industry with Social Security, a savings program like a 401(k), and a very very modest retirement annuity that is indexed a smidge (much less than SS). The conditions under which an employee can retire early are limited.

CSRS is the old Civil Service Retirement System, it was replaced by FERS above many years ago. There is still a portion of the workforce in CSRS, long time employees who didn't opt for FERS. CSRS employees are not a part of the Social Security system however they can receive a reduced SS only if they have substantial number of covered quarters with other employers. The CSRS is actually an annuity that is indexed like SS. Employees who retire early are subject to an actuarial reduction in their pension.

FEHB is the Federal Employee Health Benefits program which offers health insurance to both employees and annuitants. Annuitants can access that program only if they had participated for x years (5 if I recall accurately) before retiring and if they cease participation they loose access (subject to very limited exceptions).

I hope that helps.
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Old 11-15-2008, 07:21 AM   #27
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Here's the link to the New York State Governer. Reduce NY Spending: Budget News - 11.03.2008
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Defer Salary Payments by NYS?
Old 11-15-2008, 07:25 AM   #28
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Defer Salary Payments by NYS?

Reduce NY Spending: Governor Paterson’s Plan - November Special Session Proposals - State Workforce
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Old 11-15-2008, 02:16 PM   #29
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"dirrectio9n of offering incentives to the city workers (slaves)"

Um...yeah. I see how hard these "slaves" work. I see an enormous waste of my tax dollars paying two people to do the work of one. I know several people who've taken city jobs, and "slaves" is not how I would describe them. Remember that someone is paying your pension and health benefits for the next 30-40 years of your retirement, and its not you. If you have children you should apologize to them for making them pay far more for your retirement than for their own.
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Old 11-15-2008, 08:18 PM   #30
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"dirrectio9n of offering incentives to the city workers (slaves)"

Um...yeah. I see how hard these "slaves" work. I see an enormous waste of my tax dollars paying two people to do the work of one. I know several people who've taken city jobs, and "slaves" is not how I would describe them. Remember that someone is paying your pension and health benefits for the next 30-40 years of your retirement, and its not you. If you have children you should apologize to them for making them pay far more for your retirement than for their own.
My guess is the OP started this thread for FERS workers & retirees to perhaps discuss issues of particular interest to FERS retirement.

If you have have an issue with public sector retirement packages and would like to lambast, argue, discusss it, perhaps you should start a new thread on it.
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Old 11-15-2008, 08:24 PM   #31
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"dirrectio9n of offering incentives to the city workers (slaves)"

Um...yeah. I see how hard these "slaves" work. I see an enormous waste of my tax dollars paying two people to do the work of one. I know several people who've taken city jobs, and "slaves" is not how I would describe them. Remember that someone is paying your pension and health benefits for the next 30-40 years of your retirement, and its not you. If you have children you should apologize to them for making them pay far more for your retirement than for their own.
My guess is the OP started this thread for FERS workers & retirees to perhaps discuss issues of particular interest to FERS retirement.

If you have have an "issue" with public sector retirement packages and would like to lambast/argue/discusss, perhaps you should start your own thread on it rather than hijacking this one? (I suggest in the Soapbox section)
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Old 11-16-2008, 07:35 AM   #32
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Sorry If I offended

It was not my intension to upset people. I was only trying to make a point and look for information about early retirement. I know that there are civil servants that sit on there butts all day. Buy you do not see the ones that give it there all because of their proper work ethics. I think I am one of them. The next time you or some one you know is in jail and they need to be transported to court, hospital or a point of release. You can thank the mechanics that repair and serviced that fleet. But I want to thank you for the abuse. I have given 24 years so far of my life to civil service. 17 of them as an Vocational Automotive instructor and I am sure that the thousands of students that I have taught over those years do not feel the way you do. And some of my union brothers that work on a section of the New York City Fleet are part of a game question.
In Trivial Persuit, What is the largest non-millitary fleet in the world? New York City Department of Sanitation Woodside Queens.
For those that I offended I am sory and I will not be contributing to this forum or any forum in this site.
Good Bye and Good Luck
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:03 AM   #33
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Few Federal civil servants are represented by unions. Those that are do not negotiate retirement programs or wages.

I will not deny that unions for city, state, and county workers have gone to un-sustainable levels with pension demands. This current investment shakeout will have consequences for everyone.

The power dynamics of New York City's public sector are unique, IMHO. I would not want to be a taxpayer in that enviornment, which is why I left in my 20s.
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Old 11-16-2008, 03:47 PM   #34
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"The power dynamics of New York City's public sector are unique, IMHO. I would not want to be a taxpayer in that enviornment, which is why I left in my 20s."

Only those who have had to pay for those in this particular environment can really intelligently appreciate hwo big of a problem it is. And anyone who has had to deal with NY union "brothers" can attest to the waste and sense of entitlement. I was responding to someone on the public payroll - presumably by his own choice - who referred to himself and others like him as "slaves". If this were slavery I doubt there would a a line out the door to enter such slavery.

Public pensions are what they are - something at this time unparalleled in the private sector. While I envy the benefits, I fear for their sustainability, especially given the disparity between what a mechanic working for the NYC correctional department and the privately employed mechanic in Queens whose taxes pay for the pension of these "slaves".

In my not inconsiderable experience, NY's union civil servants spend more time complaining about how bad they have it than any other working group.
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Old 11-18-2008, 04:21 PM   #35
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I went to both NYCRES & the New York Civil Service Retired Employees Assoc. Both agree that the times are right for an incentive. Most incentives involve adding one month toward your pension for each year of service. Since I am 52 and as of next January have completed 24 years of service they say I'm a perfect candidate to bail out. Lets all keep our fingers crossed.
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Old 11-18-2008, 04:44 PM   #36
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I went to both NYCRES & the New York Civil Service Retired Employees Assoc. Both agree that the times are right for an incentive. Most incentives involve adding one month toward your pension for each year of service. Since I am 52 and as of next January have completed 24 years of service they say I'm a perfect candidate to bail out. Lets all keep our fingers crossed.
nice incentive program.
it's always interesting to compare different layers of civil service - federal, state, city, township, etc. as a former fed, i always thought that was the holy grail. but i am discovering that state employees have a wonderful benefits package.
the fed is slowly undergoing a change in the monetary only incentive area. the old system of General Schedule (GS) has been attacked by several agencies as too restrictive to award high performers. yeah.
there was a project at China Lake (Navy i think?) in the 90s that introduced the concept of incentive bonuses and performance based pay vs scheduled step increases and inflexible grade levels. it was actually used where i w*rked.
the problem with incentives is the good ol' boy thing (sorry guys). if you are golden, your pockets get lined. if you are not golden , you get minimal incentive or zero. i saw a lot of dedicated folks get cheated cuz their lips were not in the proper position.
it looked good on a powerpoint slide, i'm sure, however it amounted to letting the fox loose in the henhouse with the farmer in the lower forty.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:13 PM   #37
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I think a recurring misconception is that somehow public pensions are "earned". A public servant who works for 25 years and receives a defined benefit pension for 25 or more years did not earn that pension. Presumably most people on this site are well versed in humble arithmetic. The db system which federal, state, and local governments subscribe actually pays many people longer in retirement than in their working lives. As I previously alluded, in NY (home of patronage and feeding at the public trough - Long Island has hundreds (yes hundreds) of traxing entities, each with paid officials on the state retirement system) it is not uncommon for someone to "retire" from their state job and go back to work the next day - drawing both their salary and db pension.

Another example of this unsustainability is my own case. I spent 8 years in the Navy. At some point before retirement I intend to take a federal job for a year or two. I can "buy back" my years in the Navy for about $6-7,000. Upon reaching 62, I can then have a pension of about $6-7000 for life, plus healthcare benefits. In other words, I can contribute $7,000 to receive about $150,000. I know that this is unsustainable, but I will selfishly do it anyway.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:59 PM   #38
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nice incentive program.
it's always interesting to compare different layers of civil service - federal, state, city, township, etc. as a former fed, i always thought that was the holy grail. but i am discovering that state employees have a wonderful benefits package.
the fed is slowly undergoing a change in the monetary only incentive area. the old system of General Schedule (GS) has been attacked by several agencies as too restrictive to award high performers. yeah.
there was a project at China Lake (Navy i think?) in the 90s that introduced the concept of incentive bonuses and performance based pay vs scheduled step increases and inflexible grade levels. it was actually used where i w*rked.
the problem with incentives is the good ol' boy thing (sorry guys). if you are golden, your pockets get lined. if you are not golden , you get minimal incentive or zero. i saw a lot of dedicated folks get cheated cuz their lips were not in the proper position.
it looked good on a powerpoint slide, i'm sure, however it amounted to letting the fox loose in the henhouse with the farmer in the lower forty.
And it's real fun when your boss is some dinosaur who doesn't think women should be at work unless they are secretaries and can flirt (I never did learn the 'giggle and hair flip'). But that's all right, we'll contract out all the work to our buddies.
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Old 11-18-2008, 06:03 PM   #39
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I think a recurring misconception is that somehow public pensions are "earned". A public servant who works for 25 years and receives a defined benefit pension for 25 or more years did not earn that pension. Presumably most people on this site are well versed in humble arithmetic. The db system which federal, state, and local governments subscribe actually pays many people longer in retirement than in their working lives. As I previously alluded, in NY (home of patronage and feeding at the public trough - Long Island has hundreds (yes hundreds) of traxing entities, each with paid officials on the state retirement system) it is not uncommon for someone to "retire" from their state job and go back to work the next day - drawing both their salary and db pension.

Another example of this unsustainability is my own case. I spent 8 years in the Navy. At some point before retirement I intend to take a federal job for a year or two. I can "buy back" my years in the Navy for about $6-7,000. Upon reaching 62, I can then have a pension of about $6-7000 for life, plus healthcare benefits. In other words, I can contribute $7,000 to receive about $150,000. I know that this is unsustainable, but I will selfishly do it anyway.
So you are going to do what you condemn others for doing?
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Old 11-18-2008, 07:06 PM   #40
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....
Another example of this unsustainability is my own case. I spent 8 years in the Navy. At some point before retirement I intend to take a federal job for a year or two. I can "buy back" my years in the Navy for about $6-7,000. Upon reaching 62, I can then have a pension of about $6-7000 for life, plus healthcare benefits. In other words, I can contribute $7,000 to receive about $150,000. I know that this is unsustainable, but I will selfishly do it anyway.
......
Well, let's say you take that federal job for 2 years. (not that you'll have to qualify, compete, move, or anything - they're just gonna hand it to you there in your hometown). Now I don't know what your particular area of expertise is, but let's for the sake of argument you average 50k per year those two years. Don't know how old you are right now, but when you buy that military time back it's going to cost 3% of your military basic pay for those 8 years + interest for however many years between when you last served & when you buy it back. It's still a good deal though & I recommend you do it when you take that fed job. Here's a calculator that might help you figure it out: http://www.fedcalc.com/servlet/com.q...0f4fc203c73357

So you you'll get 10% of 50k per year for your FERS annuity. That's 5k per year (less 10% of that if you want a 50% survivor benefit). That'll about cover your FEHB health insurance premium with a little leftover after taxes. But the good thing is it'll be COLA'd at the CPI minus 1% every year. Of course the health premium will continue to go up at about the same rate as everybody elses.

Oh, & forget about the health insurance if you're only gonna work a year or two, you have to have been a fed employee for 5 years & been signed up for the health insurance for the 5 years immediately preceding your retirement. Better plan on starting that job at 57.

(or you could go back in the Navy for another 12)
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