Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-18-2005, 07:52 PM   #21
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 123
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

If you choose this path be prepared for a lot of frustration. I work for big Fortune 500, one of the biggest, and have been able to live way below my means for a long time. I reached executive level at age 40, but since achieving that I have noticed that I enjoy my job much less.

However, I've saved a bunch of money over the years and it will allow me to FIRE anytime now (having trouble with pulling the cord with some outstanding bonuses coming due this year).

However, I just don't "fit in" with the other exec...not interested in all the materialistic stuff that they are driven for, etc. The one upmanship and backstabbing are getting tiresome. I stay out of that crap, but it was easier to do on the way up. People enjoyed working for me and would work hard for me because I was different than most of the corporate climbers.

At age 45 I'm pretty burned out. If I was doing something else I may not be retiring early, but I may not have the means to retire early either. It worked for me, but my sense is that my company is really tightening up on the raises and bonuses. I think the opportunities to make good money (enough to FIRE) are drying up.

If I were to give advice I would say be known as a person who can power through projects and get things done. Have lots of clear accomplishments (like TH said, don't get on a multi year project). You need a sponsor to really make it big. Don't be a brown noser, people see through that. You can be nice and disagree with folks if you are smart about it.

Good luck.
__________________

__________________
You can either take action, or you can wait for a miracle. Miracles are<br />great, but they are so unpredictable.<br />(Peter Drucker)
kayelem is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-18-2005, 07:57 PM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

The 'start your own business' idea sounds good until you look at the failure rate of small businesses, and the costs a failed business leaves behind.

Not saying its not a good option, if you have the skills to run your own biz, a good idea and reasonable financing options. But if you dont know how to do it, dont have a super product/idea and/or you're going to finance this with a heloc or your credit cards...good luck!
__________________

__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-18-2005, 08:07 PM   #23
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 123
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

TH - agree. Starting a business was not an option for me. When I had the ideas, no money. When I had the money, no great ideas and not willing to risk the money when FIRE is right around the courner.

If you have "a dream" do it, but if you think being an entrepreneur is just a means to FIRE fuhgedaboudit.
__________________
You can either take action, or you can wait for a miracle. Miracles are<br />great, but they are so unpredictable.<br />(Peter Drucker)
kayelem is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-18-2005, 08:26 PM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
retire@40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,670
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by th
The 'start your own business' idea sounds good until you look at the failure rate of small businesses, and the costs a failed business leaves behind.
The failure rate is not as high as the stats may lead you to believe.* The stats include people who decide today to open a business today and then close down in a few days or weeks.* Many of these people have a hard time holding a regular job to begin with.

If you take those people out, you will find many people succeed in starting their own business WHEN THEY PUT IN THE TIME TO MAKE IT WORK.* Yes, it's very hard work in the beginning for most successful businesses.* Most successful business owners have some experience in the field they are entering and are not lazy to get done what has to get done to make it all work out.* They study what they need to do, get a business plan in place, hire a lawyer and a CPA, and make a long-term commitment (at least a year or two) to the business.
__________________
No man is free who is not master of himself. --- Epictetus
Enjoy Yourself (It's Later Than You Think). --- Guy Lombardo
retire@40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-18-2005, 08:56 PM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

Heres what I think are some good stats.

Roughly 50% of businesses that have employees that are more than the owner and his/her family fail within the first 5 years. About 65% within 10 years. Sure, there are plenty of single owner small businesses that are and arent successful, but the data on them is impossible to collect because...well...people lie Very few people step up and say "I tried it, and I sucked!".

During that 5-10 year operating cycle, of the businesses that remain open, a little more than a third are profitable, about a third break even, and about a third lose money.

This data was compiled by the National Federation of Independent Businesses, a small business supporter, so it may be a little better than reality, but I couldnt find a lot of fault with their methodology.'

"The millionaire next door" does point out that most well-to-do people got there by either starting their own business, living below their means, or both.

That having been said, a capable person in a corporate environment thats doing the right things (as noted extensively above) can easily make 80-100k a year in total compensation (salary, bonuses, stock options). Fill up your pre-tax retirement options, live well but dont go nuts, and put some money away. If after 20-25 years of that you dont have enough put away to quit or at least go part time or change to that lower paying but more rewarding job...well...somethings wrong.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-18-2005, 09:11 PM   #26
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 43,361
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by th
If after 20-25 years of that you dont have enough put away to quit or at least go part time or change to that lower paying but more rewarding job...well...somethings wrong.
Didn't you really intend to say "After 20-25 years of that...you've had enough to be put away...."

REW
__________________
Numbers is hard

Although rare, it is possible to read something on this forum you don't agree with and simply move on with your life

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-18-2005, 09:36 PM   #27
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
retire@40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,670
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by th

Roughly 50% of businesses that have employees that are more than the owner and his/her family fail within the first 5 years.* About 65% within 10 years.
The problem with those stats is that they include "selling the business" in the failed category.* Just because a business owner gets out of the business doesn't necessarily mean that he failed.* Many people I know have a 5 or 10 year plan to start a business, build it up and make as much money as they can while they are in it, and then sell it at a profit.

In fact, many entrepreneurs actually get bored running a small business.* The thrill with them is to start businesses.* After a few years when the business is up an running, they sell out to start another one.

I recommend anyone starting a business to read "E-Myth" as a good primer.
__________________
No man is free who is not master of himself. --- Epictetus
Enjoy Yourself (It's Later Than You Think). --- Guy Lombardo
retire@40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-19-2005, 10:37 AM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by retire@40
The problem with those stats is that they include "selling the business" in the failed category.
True, but the stat gatherers also noted what they felt was a 'substantial under-reporting of business stops'. Note that this is the stat outfit that banks use to entice people to start businesses (and take out loans to do it). That pushes my gut-button in the direction of believing these stats are probably better than reality. Considering the stats from the people who want you to believe its not so good suggest a sub 20% rate of successful profitability from a business start, the truth probably lay somewhere in the middle.

I cant really say for sure, having no direct experience with this. All I have is a couple of well financed, well employed, successful startups from the 80's and a lot of small business investment activity I engaged as part of my last job.

By the way, what I can say is there is a LOT of dysfunction in small businesses once they get past the handful of employees phase. I actually saw LESS tomfoolery and what a lot of people would call 'politics' in the 50k employee company I joined in 1992 than the 12 employee company I was with just prior. A lot of the small businesses that I oversaw investing in were pretty dang off the wall too.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-19-2005, 10:50 AM   #29
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,238
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by th


I cant really say for sure, having no direct experience with this. All I have is a couple of well financed, well employed, successful startups from the 80's and a lot of small business investment activity I engaged as part of my last job.
Is that all? Knowing a lot less than that about a subject has not stopped a lot of us from commenting profusely anyway.

I've had several friends start small businesses, and I could tell quite easily who would succeed and who wouldn't without hearing anything about their business model. There are personality types who will suceed at this, and ones that won't. One guy had 4 false starts before getting a winner up and running, and a lot of his acquired knowledge and purchases were able to roll over from one to the next. I think statistics are only so useful in this category.
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-19-2005, 11:03 AM   #30
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,636
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by laurencewill
There are personality types who will suceed at this, and ones that won't.* One guy had 4 false starts before getting a winner up and running, and a lot of his acquired knowledge and purchases were able to roll over from one to the next.* I think statistics are only so useful in this category.
I think it's misguided to pick a career by its FIRE opportunities. I sure didn't.

"Do what you love" is probably a trite cliche, but you have to pursue a personal interest if you're going to succeed at life, let alone financially. And you may have to pursue it through more than one bankruptcy if you're interested in owning your own business. That's just tuition payments at the School of Experience.

I think every career has FIRE potential if it's pursued in a profitable manner. What one person might see as a waste of a liberal-arts education might enable another to start a career of non-profit charity service while a third grows rich exploiting an overlooked profit niche. Forbes & Fortune are full of those stories.

The key is LBYM. You can't easily raise your salary, but just about everyone can raise their savings.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-19-2005, 11:13 AM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by laurencewill
Is that all? Knowing a lot less than that about a subject has not stopped a lot of us from commenting profusely anyway.
Indeed, the less one knows about something, the further one can opine and in far more non-salient directions...the opportunity to form completely ridiculous assertions is unlimited!
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-21-2005, 10:39 PM   #32
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 90
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat
Makes me wonder what people make that get to ER fast...any takers?
In my opinion, you must must must only accept work where your superiors make a lot more money than you (i.e. multiples of), and/or where bonuses are substantial (50-100% of salary min.), or where the budget for contractors and the amount of billable hours is open-ended.

I have a ways to go but the path for me so far has been through IT contracting (specialist areas only), and Wall St style IT roles. A lot depends on what you're studying?

Also years of corporate work can burn you out too, you need to work hard in the years where pay is good, and not be afraid of sabbaticals to recharge for the other times.

I've made many mistakes along the way, too many many times in my 20's pay was repeatedly capped at 60-100k no matter how hard I worked. I went into self employed IT consulting but it proved tricky, decent projects always went to the Accenture type outfits, who then often subcontract the work to specialist independents like me anyhow. At least the pay though was in large chunks (as with bonuses), easier to bank these away.

I think you asked for an example. My last job was as ordinary Wall St analyst, Gross pay was 200-250k/yr (plus options). The work was based in the Midwest, so costs were low (always a critical aspect).
__________________
1.Convert Euro assets to US$ now or not?<br />2.Tax haven work, anyone ventured?<br />3.ER income from Real-Estate or Equities?<br />4.ER to Canada or US?<br />5.Lifesavings secure in Funds after Worldcon/Enrot/Equitable Life?<br />6.House price correction risk as rates go up?<br />7.Prop arbitrage i.e. CA &gt; 20% IL&lt;8%?
ER@40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-22-2005, 09:36 AM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,125
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

Here is an interesting article on "A PRACTICAL GUIDE TO LIFE, Advice I'd Give My Adult Child" by Marty Nemko http://www.martynemko.com/pub/articl...idetolife.shtm

A few words from that article:

Other status seekers prostitute themselves to climb the corporate ladder. They kiss up to their bosses and work 60+-hour workweeks, smilingly willing to uproot themselves and their families for a few years in Dubuque, Tuscaloosa, or any goddamn place the Company wants to dump them. They endure years of theoretical crap in an MBA program so they can put those three letters, MBA, on their resume. And for what? So they can get a title of vice president, and after their 12-hour cover-their-butt workday, collapse on their sofa, get blitzed, and stare at their oversized living room in their oversized neighborhood wondering, “Is that all there is?”


He has other articles on career development.

Spanky
__________________
May we live in peace and harmony and be free from all human sufferings.
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-22-2005, 02:18 PM   #34
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
retire@40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,670
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky
Other status seekers prostitute themselves to climb the corporate ladder. They kiss up to their bosses and work 60+-hour workweeks, smilingly willing to uproot themselves and their families for a few years in Dubuque, Tuscaloosa, or any goddamn place the Company wants to dump them. They endure years of theoretical crap in an MBA program so they can put those three letters, MBA, on their resume. And for what? So they can get a title of vice president, and after their 12-hour cover-their-butt workday, collapse on their sofa, get blitzed, and stare at their oversized living room in their oversized neighborhood wondering, “Is that all there is?” [/i]
This is a great definition for "Living Hell."
__________________
No man is free who is not master of himself. --- Epictetus
Enjoy Yourself (It's Later Than You Think). --- Guy Lombardo
retire@40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-22-2005, 02:38 PM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wildcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lou-evil
Posts: 2,025
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

Quote:
I think you asked for an example. My last job was as ordinary Wall St analyst, Gross pay was 200-250k/yr (plus options)
Sounds great but even after I finish grad school I doubt I will ever touch that range. I just have a hard time thinking people make that much but I get I asked what it took to get to ER fast.





__________________
"These walls are kind of funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, gets so you depend on them"
wildcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-22-2005, 02:53 PM   #36
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,125
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

I think you have to graduate (top of your class) with an MBA in finance from Wharton and recruited by Wall Street. Here is a breakdown of a financial analyst: $40,000 (bottom), $81,000 (medium), $321,000 (top). For 2004, merger specialists expect to receive total compensation on average of $900,000, while commodities traders in oil and gas can expect to earn $1.3 million or more.

SPanky
__________________
May we live in peace and harmony and be free from all human sufferings.
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-22-2005, 05:16 PM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wildcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lou-evil
Posts: 2,025
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

Quote:
I think you have to graduate (top of your class) with an MBA in finance from Wharton and recruited by Wall Street
Quote:
For 2004, merger specialists expect to receive total compensation on average of $900,000, while commodities traders in oil and gas can expect to earn $1.3 million or more.
I wish. I also wish I was 7 feet tall with a wicked hook.
__________________
"These walls are kind of funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, gets so you depend on them"
wildcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-22-2005, 07:51 PM   #38
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Eagle43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,908
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky
Here is an interesting article on "A PRACTICAL GUIDE TO LIFE, Advice I'd Give My Adult Child" by Marty Nemko http://www.martynemko.com/pub/articl...idetolife.shtm

A few words from that article:

Other status seekers prostitute themselves to climb the corporate ladder. They kiss up to their bosses and work 60+-hour workweeks, smilingly willing to uproot themselves and their families for a few years in Dubuque, Tuscaloosa, or any goddamn place the Company wants to dump them. They endure years of theoretical crap in an MBA program so they can put those three letters, MBA, on their resume. And for what? So they can get a title of vice president, and after their 12-hour cover-their-butt workday, collapse on their sofa, get blitzed, and stare at their oversized living room in their oversized neighborhood wondering, “Is that all there is?”


He has other articles on career development.

Spanky
Great article Spanky. He even recommends Vanguard. How can this guy be wrong?? His comments concerning health and Do what you love and you'll probably starve, are right on.
__________________
Resist much. Obey Little. . . . Ed Abbey

Disclaimer: My Posts are for my amusement only.
Eagle43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-23-2005, 06:33 AM   #39
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 92
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

Here are the "7 habits" for a successful manager in Corporate America:

Develop a superhuman tolerance for stupidity.

Be prepared to enforce company policy that conflicts with your personal ethics.

Learn to speak out of both sides of your mouth at the same time.

Be prepared to tout the long term "strategy" or "vision" your upper management rolls out. Accordingly, be prepared to rapidly discard it and to embrace the new long term "strategy" or "vision" that comes along six months later.

Accept the fact that you will have to give 60 to 70 hours of your life to the corporation every week.

Think of employees as "resources" instead of human beings.

Learn to embrace, love, and spew bullshit.


__________________
John L. White, author of: My JOB SUCKS and I Can't Take it Anymore! HELP !http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...indebove40w-20
johnlw is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?
Old 05-23-2005, 06:40 AM   #40
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,875
Re: Any tips for corporate climbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlw
Here are the "7 habits" for a successful manager in Corporate America:

Develop a superhuman tolerance for stupidity.

Be prepared to enforce company policy that conflicts with your personal ethics.

Learn to speak out of both sides of your mouth at the same time.

Be prepared to tout the long term "strategy" or "vision" your upper management rolls out. Accordingly, be prepared to rapidly discard it and to embrace the new* long term "strategy" or "vision" that comes along six months later.

Accept the fact that you will have to give 60 to 70 hours of your life to the corporation every week.

Think of employees as "resources" instead of human beings.

Learn to embrace, love, and spew bull****.


Without comment on the validity of this list, I do admit that I still
practice Habit No. 7

JG
__________________

MRGALT2U is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Income from TIPS? Gearhead Jim FIRE and Money 6 04-05-2007 02:52 PM
TIPS vs. Vanguard TIPS Fund Cut-Throat FIRE and Money 16 08-15-2006 05:32 AM
TIPS funds: FIREcalc inputs, withdrawal strategy.. Cb FIRE and Money 2 09-28-2004 01:13 PM
SWR, terminal values, TIPS, I-bnds & comm paper sgeeeee FIRE and Money 144 02-25-2004 03:35 PM
TIPS vs. Mutual Fund with TIPS? Telly FIRE and Money 12 07-16-2003 11:21 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:07 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.