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Re: Asking for raise
Old 01-13-2007, 06:05 AM   #61
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Re: Asking for raise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisyphus
Maggie,

My two pesos: I don't know your exact situation (obviously), but I would encourage you to show them the results and bottom line impact you've had. Just showing them your job description and comparing it to a list of what you actually do might not set the best "tone." Most people do things that are a lot different than their job description.

You can't argue with results, however. If there are projects you've led or solutions you implemented that resulted in big $ savings or improved processes, focus on that. Then, directly mention that you're hoping your pay might be adjusted in line with that performance.

IMO, I'd focus on getting your resume up to speed and getting it out there. If your skills are as valuable as you think, there should be no problem finding another great opportunity. After 6 years of status quo, you're probably typecast and it would take a counteroffer and holding them over a barrel to get a serious raise. Although that works, it permanently changes things, and is often temporary.

Best of luck.
thanks. I wil do that. My ex-boss (who had a clue about computers) promised to read my memo before I submit it.
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Re: Asking for raise
Old 01-13-2007, 06:07 AM   #62
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Re: Asking for raise

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Originally Posted by Spanky
Ditto. Get what you deserve elsewhere and don't bother with any possible counteroffer.
I am going to take some classes so I can imrove my resume, and send it out after that
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Re: Asking for raise
Old 01-13-2007, 06:08 AM   #63
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Re: Asking for raise

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Originally Posted by Nords
Sounds like great guaranteed lifetime employment. Are you sure you want to risk jeopardizing it over a raise?
yes, guaranteed lifetime employment, except that I work for peaunuts.
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Re: Asking for raise
Old 01-13-2007, 09:47 AM   #64
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Re: Asking for raise

Depending on the dynamics of your organization and relationship with your manager should depend on your approach. In my experience, everytime I asked for a raise it was basically a closed-door discussion.

I would walk into my manager's office, and pretty much let him know that I wanted to talk about my compensation. The first time, my entire team got automatic 6% raises to cover performance plus cost of living.

The second time, I ended up walking out with "promotion without pay." More responsibility and no pay. The next time, I came in and my manager told me that his manager's didn't feel I was performing (which was BS, just the CEO didn't like me because I came in after 9am), and then the time after that he called me in and told me they were giving me a 11% raise.

Some time after, there was a merger and I changed departments and positions. Again, I was underpaid so after I had the job and worked it for a little while, I asked my manager when my compensation would be adjusted. He talked to HR, and then the following fiscal quarter I got a 15% equity raise. Shortly thereafter, I also got a 3% performance raise (my company currently is not giving out COLA).

In previous jobs, I also just outright asked my managers for raises. Usually I had at least a decent enough rapport to be able to talk candidly with my managers.

This also gave me the opportunity to be personable and real with my managers, which then made the request less threatening.

Remember: Managers expect to get paid more as they do more, and they understand when employees do the same.

So my advice would be to prepare all of your information about what you do, and also as others have said, if there are projects where you saved the company money then do your best to quantify that, then lowball the number a little so you have some wiggle room in case they doubt your statement.

Then memorize/ingrain all this information into your brain so that when you have that candid conversation, instead of spouting off a list, you can work it into the conversation.

Managers are people too, so the more you can respect and honor them as such (instead of simply sending a memo of "I want a raise") the more likely you are to have a working relationship that gets you what you want.

Then after the meeting, if you didn't feel that you got the resolution you needed, send him an email / memo basically saying "thank you for talking with me today" and then also reiterate the tasks you do.

I always prefer to handle personnel issues in person and use written followup, rather than the other way around. Email / memos have helped people become more disconnected, but the fact of the matter is you're working with *people* so finding ways to connect with them will take you much further.

You also may consider asking your boss if the two of you can go out to a lunch to discuss some business/work items and talk about it there. Sometimes a more casual environment can be conducive to getting your manager's guard down a little bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maggieddd
yes, guaranteed lifetime employment, except that I work for peaunuts.
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Re: Asking for raise
Old 01-13-2007, 12:55 PM   #65
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Re: Asking for raise

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Originally Posted by Peaceful_Warrior
You also may consider asking your boss if the two of you can go out to a lunch to discuss some business/work items and talk about it there. Sometimes a more casual environment can be conducive to getting your manager's guard down a little bit.
Wow. Great idea.

Maggie, I am in the same position as you, though not as long a tenure. Reiterating what was already said, I think the key is to (in no particular order or importance)
  • 1. Show results - show how your work improves/benefits the company and how it increased since your original pay salary.
  • 2. Show improvement - show how something was improved. Did you integrate the new server system so now there is 30% more efficiency in the email system because you learned a new technology?
  • 3. Don't compare yourself to other employees within the company as a point. I think this is bad and knowing their salaries and using it as an argument. This might be against company policy. It might be beneficial for you to know for evaluating the salary environment, but usually is bad. (also, what if someone else was padding their salary just to look better, and they give you inaccurate information?)
  • 4. Treat your manager's as people. They aren't necessarily out to get you and profit all they can from you. It is business but they won't squeeze you on purpose. Perhaps, as you said, they don't understand the value you bring. This is where you should help them understand and relate between your technical work and their business world. They are not the enemies and if you make them as such, they will not help you. The idea about bringing them out of the environment is a really good one and this can help the relationship you have with them.
  • 5. When comparing other jobs, don't just look at salary but overall "compensation" including healthcare, days off, vacation, flexibility, etc... It seems like you have a GREAT benefits, which might be worth the $xx less than other jobs. (though this doesn't help with your progression you want within the same company).
  • 6. Be personal. In person is good, because an email/memo they can have a different perception of what you are trying to say and can make up tons of stories in their head which can be untrue. In person, you can tell them what you really mean and they can tell you their story. If there is any confusion, you are both RIGHT THERE to clear up anything and have clarification.

I should be following my own advice, but I don't have the leverage that you have. Also one think my manager/mentor is trying to teach me is things take time and be patient... So once they hear your story and agree to work with you, give them time and let them do it. Don't keep checking in aggressively all the time (but do see if they are in the right direction)

I'd love to talk/chat... PM me if you like.
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Re: Asking for raise
Old 01-19-2007, 05:17 AM   #66
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Re: Asking for raise

Here is my update.
My boss just announced that he is retiring next month.
So, I don't know if I should run to him before he leaves and ask for the raise or if it is too late and I should just let it go. I guess sending him a list of things I did every week was for nothing after all.
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Re: Asking for raise
Old 01-19-2007, 10:22 AM   #67
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Re: Asking for raise

I don't see the harm of exploring that now. The Manager may want to write a glowing review to support your request. On the other hand if the Manager is reluctant in any way back off. You don't want a request on record that your soon to be Manager isn't enthusiastic about.
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Re: Asking for raise
Old 01-19-2007, 01:34 PM   #68
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Re: Asking for raise

Go for it anyway. As a side-note, find out who his replacement will be and if you haven't already, begin building a rapport with that person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maggieddd
Here is my update.
My boss just announced that he is retiring next month.
So, I don't know if I should run to him before he leaves and ask for the raise or if it is too late and I should just let it go. I guess sending him a list of things I did every week was for nothing after all.
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Re: Asking for raise
Old 01-19-2007, 04:04 PM   #69
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Re: Asking for raise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peaceful_Warrior
Go for it anyway. As a side-note, find out who his replacement will be and if you haven't already, begin building a rapport with that person.
Or apply for the job.
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Re: Asking for raise
Old 01-19-2007, 04:37 PM   #70
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Re: Asking for raise

Seems like a lot of process wrapped around justifying the raise.

In my experience as a manager, you were either on my radar screen as a positive, valuable contributor or you werent. If you were on the screen and when we were having a chat happened to mention that you'd like to see a little something extra in the paycheck as you'd been doing your danged best stuff lately, I'd do something about it. I might ask the employee to whack together a first draft of the justification to cut into the amount of work I'd have to do on it, but thats all.

All the lists, accomplishments and other stuff wouldnt make any difference to me if I didnt already think you were doing a good job.

On the other hand, there are probably plenty of clueless managers who dont even know the names of the people working for them.

As far as applying for the managers job...you probably dont want it! People will just keep giving you lists of their accomplishments and asking you for more money.

But seriously, DO apply for that job if you're reasonably qualified as it'll put you on the next layer of managements radar and give you some time to talk with them when you're interviewing. Be advised that if you dont get the job, the person who does might consider you a threat...or a good #1 to have on staff.

There is also a great advantage to having your managers peer managers know who you are and for them to have a positive impression of you. Always try to help out other groups and other group managers and be as courteous as possible. Its quite plausible that your manager may propose your raise or an increase in what raise you were going to get in a staff meeting or in the company of their peer managers. Having one or two of them pipe up and say "yeah, he's a great guy, really helps out a lot" will sink it for you.

Having one or more of them thinking you're a flaming a-hole will probably end the effort pretty quick.

Your second line manager should also have some knowledge of who you are and a positive image of you.

So in short, just ask for it. Make sure all year long that you've got a good network of people willing to go to bat for you. Make sure that people know who you are and that the image is a positive one. If you have an invisible job or invisible tasks...change that.
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Re: Asking for raise
Old 01-19-2007, 07:57 PM   #71
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Re: Asking for raise

I am not going to apply for this job. The guy was an Associate Commissioner for Finace and Management. I am a computer person there. I am interested in computers not finance, so I don't want that job even if they told me I could have it. I shouldn't even be under this guy but since my boss left and they never replaced him they put me under this guy who has no clue about the work I do. They don't have a replacement for him.
How can I have a postivie impression on the guy if I was hired to do networking/web stuff/desktop support etc. and he is telling me that I haven't accomplished anything because I haven't learned anything about finance. Unreal. I was given extra responsibilities after 2 other people retired and I haven't received any compensation for it. That's the reason I wanted to ask for a raise, not out of the blue because I think I do a good job. So I think I will just go and ask next week, he is leaving so perhaps he will want to leave a good impression and get me the raise or if not I have nothing to loose, he is leaving anyway.
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Re: Asking for raise
Old 01-21-2007, 03:44 AM   #72
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Re: Asking for raise

you won't get unless you ask - good luck.
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Re: Asking for raise
Old 01-22-2007, 04:55 PM   #73
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Re: Asking for raise

So, I went and asked today

I was told to write a memo outlining everything extra I do and to send it to the commissioner. So, I am going to write it in the next few days.
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Re: Asking for raise
Old 01-22-2007, 06:31 PM   #74
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Re: Asking for raise

Perfect!

Quote:
Originally Posted by maggieddd
So, I went and asked today

I was told to write a memo outlining everything extra I do and to send it to the commissioner. So, I am going to write it in the next few days.
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Re: Asking for raise
Old 01-22-2007, 09:52 PM   #75
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Re: Asking for raise

Awesome...

When I had sales training, we used the technique of features and benefits.

Feature --> Benefit.
what is it --> and how does it affect me.

In your memo this might be an effective approach for all your duties and the additonal ones you do out of "scope"... You shouldn't get raise for doing extra work out of scope, but also for continuing to do a good job at what you do.

ex.
Updated and implemented security patches throughout system --> Kept system uptime at 99% without loss of continuity.
Implemented sales tracking system --> ability to manage and track more sales with accuracy and minimizing accounting work needed.

A well thought out and written memo is good... follow up later with a personal phone call to check in and to clarify anything if needed is also good.

good luck!
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