Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-06-2007, 08:26 PM   #41
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 961
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnojr View Post
My girlfriend and I are resolved... no kids. We have zero interest. Our dogs are our kids

Seriously, an awful lot of the times that someone is telling you how great kids are and how you absoluetly must start having them, you get this feeling that they have an awful lot invested in getting you to join their ranks. Like they know that they can't change their minds and not have kids, but they can't stand to see someone else who's happy and free to do what they want, when they want.

I'd much rather decide where to cruise to this year than which brand of diapers might hold the most poop. And keep the $200,000+ that it's estimated to cost to raise a child to age 18, and then still have to worry about sending them to college when you should be planning your final exit from the rat race while you're still young.
Come to the Dark Side..... Kind of like with marriage, eh?

Then there's always the "Whoopsie, I didn't realize we were so fertile" freak out. Just 'cause you aren't planning on having kids doesn't mean they won't appear, right CFB?

- Alec
__________________

__________________
ats5g is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-06-2007, 10:01 PM   #42
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Yeah, thats the dangest thing, isnt it?

I taught Gabe a few signs, but he learned pretty quick that pointing and yelling at me while giving me a stern look generally got him what he wanted.

After 20 years of staff meetings, I guess I developed the ability to determine the wishes of someone who cant communicate except at the most basic levels.

The 'two choices' approach also works here. Except my choices are usually "would you like to do the thing I want you to do or would you like to go to bed?"

I already pee in the yard. So he'd just be taking after me. I guess I cant complain too much about that...
__________________

__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2007, 10:27 PM   #43
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by ats5g View Post
Then there's always the "Whoopsie, I didn't realize we were so fertile" freak out. Just 'cause you aren't planning on having kids doesn't mean they won't appear, right CFB?
The doc will have some 'splainin' to do.
__________________
Webzter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2007, 10:30 PM   #44
Full time employment: Posting here.
GoodSense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 678
Seeing that there are all these techniques to smart parenting, I feel a little better about the possibility of raising UNSPOILED kids. I think the biggest turn-off for the desire for children is to see some really spoiled kids. I see them all the time at the mall, movie theaters, or even my friends' children. Lots of "I can't believe he just threw that rubber hammer at me!" kind of moments.

CFB, you've got a smart little dude! I can't do much better than pointing at something and looking really frustrated.
__________________
GoodSense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2007, 10:43 PM   #45
Moderator Emeritus
Khan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pine Island, Florida
Posts: 6,868
Send a message via AIM to Khan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
Children are not for everyone and they are not returnable so make sure you want them .I could not imagine my life without my children .The joys and sorrows are worth every penney .One other thing ,this is a lifelong commitment .You do not get a vacation from parenthood .
And you never get back the sleep you missed.
__________________
"Knowin' no one nowhere's gonna miss us when we're gone..."
Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2007, 10:49 PM   #46
Moderator Emeritus
Khan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pine Island, Florida
Posts: 6,868
Send a message via AIM to Khan
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodSense View Post
Thank you all for your wonderful, heart-felt responses. They represent a great spectrum of insights that I couldn't have gotten from family or friends (at least not that degree of honesty). It's comforting to know that financially it's probably not as devastating as I thought. It is more of an issue of love and commitment, then.

I did get to hold a newborn baby for about half an hour last week. She was very sweet, and I felt a bond with her. I am mostly scared of the 2-year old or so stage, where they are (seemingly) destructive and hard to reason with.

I think we'll wait a few years and see how we feel. I have already become much more child-friendly in the last 2-3 years. (In my mid-20s I was sure I didn't want children) If we do have children, ideally one of us could be a stay-at-home parent when that happens. We'll try to save in the meantime, so that the money can go to either ER fund or extended parental leave.

Thanks again, everyone.
I suppose many people like babies. How about a screaming 2 year old? How about a sullen rebellious 15 year old? Looking back, I wonder why my parents didn't kill me.
__________________
"Knowin' no one nowhere's gonna miss us when we're gone..."
Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 08:53 AM   #47
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
DangerMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 1,812
We wanted children but were unable to have them. My recommendation would be if you come down on the side of deciding to have some, get to it sooner rather than later due to your declining fertility rates as you age.

As a couple who remain childless there are days that we wish things had of turned out differently. Usually they are the days when I am sitting in my study and can hear the laughter of the children in the swimming pool below having that "pure" type of fun only children can have. However, I know in my mind I was always visualising having a "good" child. The reality is there are many parents out there who have to deal with the tougher side of having children - autism, developmental disabilities, kids who go bad on drugs, kids who develop childhood diseases. My brother has 2 step children and 2 children with his wife. Of the younger 2, one has autism, of the older 2, one has turned 15 and is causing them tremendous problems has fallen in with the wrong crowd and has been truant from school and doing drugs. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

All I can say is be sure it is what you want. So many people have children because of pressure from parents to make them grandparents or just pressure from society. Remember once it happens there is no sending them back if you change your mind.

Good luck with your decision.
__________________

I be a girl, he's a boy. Think I maybe FIRED since July 08. Mid 40s, no kidlets. Actually am totally clueless as to what is going on with DH.
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 08:54 AM   #48
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
I've had FAR worse employees, and in far greater volume.

Its generally all the same problems. If you've been a people manager for a few years, you've got the skills.

Whats going to be interesting is when i'm in my late 50's and he's a teenager.

But I'll have money and he's gonna want some...
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 10:34 AM   #49
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Mine are 8 and 5, and they are a blast!

The first 2-3 years is rough on the parents, but as time goes on the kids get more independent and you can see their personalities develop.

My 8 year old is clone of his mom, same hair, quiet disposition, etc. Very cerebral and smart.

My 5 year old is a chip off the old block. Little hellion, always trying to manhandle his older and much bigger brother. Just like his old man.........

DW's recent comment about the 5-year old? "We're gonna have issues with this one".......

My reply? "Are your talking about ME, or MINI-ME"??
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 02:18 PM   #50
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bright eyed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,891
Definitely agree w/ CFB that managing employees and children are similar in many ways.

Best way to avoid spoiled children is to not spoil them! haha but try to convince the grandparents and aunties of that...some spoiling will happen. But teaching good manners, delayed gratification and some good discipline will do the trick...my kids are perfect as a result

i also have a teen and we know that discipline (consequences) and following through on them is a must (but not easy). we've gotten very good at it and you have to do less and less as a result of them "getting it" - let's see, that was only about 6 years of toughing it out though! he's about to turn 17 and coming out on the other side as a decent, self disciplined young adult - and even acknowledges that while he rates us as a 9 on a scale of 10 for tough parents that he understands - a lot of his friends are having a tough time, not doing well in school etc. and their parents have done nothing to "encourage" them out of it and now he appreciates our tough love! at times it felt like a separate full time job.

my toddler is definitely going through the impulsive and hard to reason phase - but i know it's a phase and i don't freak out about it. i mostly ignore her tantrums (or turn around and laugh) and show her something to do instead (redirect)... good humor and perspective are vital assets to a parent.

going to restaurants is not much fun right now and won't be planning any air travel till she's over it though. her sister went on a plane around 18 months and her head was in my lap screaming - "i want to go outside"! ah, but then there's benedryl and the boob..

but for whatever phase the kid is in, there are tons of books and resources to help guide you through the mess...remember, parenting kids is the true oldest profession
__________________
If i think of something clever to say, i'll put it here...
bright eyed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 02:28 PM   #51
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by bright eyed View Post

going to restaurants is not much fun right now and won't be planning any air travel till she's over it though. her sister went on a plane around 18 months and her head was in my lap screaming - "i want to go outside"! ah, but then there's benedryl and the boob..
I had a co-worker that flew from Chicago to hawaii when his twin girls were 2.5 years old.

I'm still vicariously traumatized just thinking about such an experience.

I remember restaurants when mine were about that age - it was like a navy seal attack mission - get in, eat, get the hell out as quickly as possible before all hell breaks loose. Ok maybe a *slight* exaggeration, but that's how it felt...

- John
__________________
runchman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 02:33 PM   #52
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by runchman View Post
I remember restaurants when mine were about that age - it was like a navy seal attack mission - get in, eat, get the hell out as quickly as possible before all hell breaks loose. Ok maybe a *slight* exaggeration, but that's how it felt...


Sounds familiar. We just went out to eat lunch yesterday for the first time in a while. It seemed more like world wrestling federation stuff to me. Lots of climbing to the upper rope, jumping, kicking, couple of light body slams. A little eating.

Somehow my wife has signed us up to go to a wedding next month...a four hour drive away. When she told me I actually said "No...really...we're not going to that, you're just kidding right?". Twice. Eight hours in the car and several hours at a wedding?

This is with the kid that has a max current range of about 3 hours in the car before he goes ballistic.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 03:18 PM   #53
Moderator Emeritus
Khan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pine Island, Florida
Posts: 6,868
Send a message via AIM to Khan
Are You Ready To Have Kids?, Humor about Kids
__________________
"Knowin' no one nowhere's gonna miss us when we're gone..."
Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 03:26 PM   #54
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bright eyed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,891
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny View Post


Somehow my wife has signed us up to go to a wedding next month...a four hour drive away. When she told me I actually said "No...really...we're not going to that, you're just kidding right?". Twice. Eight hours in the car and several hours at a wedding?

This is with the kid that has a max current range of about 3 hours in the car before he goes ballistic.
Try to drive at nite if you can, we just hauled 5+ hours in the middle of the nite to make sure the sleeping angels (and their blessed mommy) would not suffer too much...from LA to Oakland, 4 hours is doable -

if you go during the day, you'll add a few hours to the trip - we did it once (never again!) but again, i think the toddler was a babe and we stopped about every hour - gabe should be able to hang in better than that also map out all the mcd's playlands - then he can get out, run, jump and play, that helps a lot too!

good luck
__________________
If i think of something clever to say, i'll put it here...
bright eyed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 03:42 PM   #55
Full time employment: Posting here.
Sandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny View Post

Somehow my wife has signed us up to go to a wedding next month...a four hour drive away. When she told me I actually said "No...really...we're not going to that, you're just kidding right?". Twice. Eight hours in the car and several hours at a wedding?

This is with the kid that has a max current range of about 3 hours in the car before he goes ballistic.
Plan for stops. Get Gabe out of the car and exercise! Jumping jacks, run back and forth between two poles as fast as he can, etc. Kids think this is silly to do in a gas station or drive thru parking lot. They laugh but do it (do it with him, make a competition and it is more fun). It gets the wiggles out and he can get back in the car and continue on.

Before you go, visit the dollar store - get a bag of cheap goodies to hand out every hour or every X miles. Gives them something new to play with and something to look forward to and something you can bribe him with (sit quietly for the next x minutes and you will get a new item from "The Bag"). Don't tell him there is a bag until you are at the first dispensing spot! Do not buy projectiles (duh)- stick with stuffed animals, cars, funny glasses, white boards, etc.
__________________
I would not have anyone adopt my mode of living...but I would have each one be very careful to find out and pursue his own way, and not his father's or his mother's or his neighbor's instead. Thoreau, Walden
Sandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Why can't you do these with kids?
Old 08-07-2007, 03:43 PM   #56
Full time employment: Posting here.
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta suburbs
Posts: 881
Why can't you do these with kids?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodSense View Post
Cons:
- We can't be living like beach bums or live in an RV (my long-term dream), at least until children go to college
- We can't travel around the world and just do odd jobs to barely sustain a living, at least until children go to college (by then I'll be too old to want to do that)
Why can't you RV with kids?
Or travel around the world?

Why not for example RV when they are small (diaper stage) and travel around the world when they are older?

We do both RV & travel around the world (granted, not full time yet) with our 3yr old Little Sailor and 7 months old Tiny Sailing Wench.
Long flights (like US to Greece or Ireland or UK) are taxing for us (although we still do it)- this is why I suggest RV first - you can drive mostly at night when young kids are asleep and they can sleep in their own bed every night.

Also - since you are contemplating RVs and travel - Have you considered living on a sailboat? It's would be a combination of these two and this is what we are planning to do in the future.

sailor
__________________
sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 03:53 PM   #57
Moderator Emeritus
Khan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pine Island, Florida
Posts: 6,868
Send a message via AIM to Khan
Another classic:

Jerry's Haven N Tell 34 Things I Learned From My Children
__________________
"Knowin' no one nowhere's gonna miss us when we're gone..."
Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 04:03 PM   #58
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan View Post
Tears. Running. Down. My. Face.

Hardest I've laughed in years.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 04:17 PM   #59
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
Much funnier now that my "toddler" is 26...
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 04:18 PM   #60
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Why can't you RV with kids?
Or travel around the world?
Why not for example RV when they are small (diaper stage) and travel around the world when they are older?
You can when you have kids with the right kind of temperament.

Friends of ours backpacked two in diapers all over the Alps (they were stationed in Italy at the time). These kids were always smiling and could hardly be heard when they were fussing.

We worked incredibly hard (and felt incredibly lucky) just to get our non-sleeping fussy baby from home to a Waikiki hotel, a death march distance of less than 20 miles. There were childcare days when my main accomplishment (by 2 PM) was getting dressed and brushing MY teeth, let alone our kid's. There were many nights when the only way to get her to sleep was to put her in the car and drive 20 miles (whichever came first). When I got back in the garage it didn't seem worth the risk to take her out of her car seat so I'd just recline my seat and sleep behind the wheel. I can't remember the number of restaurants & stores we retreated from in total disarray. When our baby was unhappy she wasn't just loud, she'd remove paint and earwax. It was nearly 10 years before we could resume eating at a food business without a PlayPlace.

Yeah, she's a good kid with a very busy brain. But there were many times when her survival was in jeopardy, and not a judge in the land would've convicted either of us!
__________________

__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:37 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.