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Old 12-18-2013, 05:27 AM   #61
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As a 20 yr man myself, sometime in the next 5 yrs or so I expect (more or less depending on who gets control) the "Thank you for your service" stuff to change into "You are 'The HAVES" and we as a nation simply can no longer afford such gold plated opulent pay/pensions/medical care.... you will have to sacrifice like the rest of"

Yes. I have that much faith in this country
Nailed it.

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In a document defending the cut, Ryan's staff called pensions to middle-aged military retirees "an exceptionally generous benefit, often providing 40 years of pension payment in return for 20 years of service" and noted that "most begin a second career after leaving the military."
My Way News - Bipartisan budget agreement nears final passage
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Old 12-18-2013, 12:48 PM   #62
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In a document defending the cut, Ryan's staff called pensions to middle-aged military retirees "an exceptionally generous benefit, often providing 40 years of pension payment in return for 20 years of service" and noted that "most begin a second career after leaving the military."
Like I said, I have faith in this country. Predictable like a castor oil addict

Remember that movie "The Best years of Our Lives"? Not to overstate the case or compare he average mil retiree with those who lost body parts but realistically if you do the "20" you have given up all formative years and yrs of climbing a career/economic ladder to the military. I'd say it's it's a supplemental wage for those beginning at or near the bottom. (Yes, some can convert quite easily but they can't guarantee. It's sort of a gamble) Also, and you never hear this anywhere, the "pension" is never referred to as a "pension" on the inside except around the water cooler. By law unless they've changed it, it's "retirement pay" and it is called that because it functions as "retainer pay" until age 55 or that point at which you would have had 30 yrs active duty.

So, now to massage this they play games with language. Look into mein eyes.. you are getting sleeepy.... sleeeeeepy....
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:07 AM   #63
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I wonder if veterans disability compensation colas are next on the chopping block?
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Old 12-20-2013, 04:35 AM   #64
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looking for reassurance ?

I am age 66 with a heck of a lot more in money and property than you and I am still worried. It looks like cuts are coming. Military is going to be hit hard. Not sure they will mess with your benefits but then again I am not sure five years from now I will be getting my SS.

If I were you I would find something I really enjoy doing that pays decent money and keep working. Take you military pay and invest. I wish I could tell you where but I think you will find a way. Working is retirement for some people that look forward to going to work each day. That dream job could be waiting on you now.

I retired because I felt I had done my part in the working life. I was in the workforce for 48 years and it comes a time we just have to let younger people have our jobs.

By the way you mentioned working part time at maybe a golf course. I retired as a golf course superintendent. We only worked one full time worker who was a skilled mechanic. The rest we worked only in season and paid them $8.00 an hour. No way any of our workers made $10,000 a year so good luck on that. I am sure you could make more in some area's but the cost of living would be much more for you also. As a rule the golf industry has took a big hit in the last 10 years. Check around and you will see what I am talking about.

I do wish you good luck. You are still a young man with many years ahead of you. Also thank you for your service to our country. oldtrig
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Old 12-20-2013, 08:59 AM   #65
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My late father in law drew an O-6 pension for just short of 50 years. During this time he used a PhD that he picked up along the way in his career to become a tenured professor and pick up another lifetime pension, later retired form this and got another real job in a Community College. He finally retired from teaching in his late 80s, and died recently at 98. Not that he hadn't had a distinguished career, he had. With all-in combat roles in two wars. But he sure didn't need money, which seems to be becoming one of the criteria for who should or should not get money passed to them at public expense.

But he sure lived well- always a nice late model Porsche or Mercedes or BMW and sharp clothes.

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Old 12-20-2013, 02:30 PM   #66
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There seems a fundamental difference between saying:

A) as a society, we want financially to help group A (the homeless, the hungry, fashion victims, what have you) and we can set the level of help to the level of financial need; and

B) if you serve in our military for 20 years, we'll give you this COLA'd pension for the rest of your life.



Case A may be a noble sentiment and a societal moral obligation, but it will almost certainly be subject to the whims of the political process and the state of the government purse.

Case B is a contract. It is not typically a defense to a breach of contract suit that the other side does not need the money you were supposed to pay them.
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Old 12-20-2013, 02:35 PM   #67
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There seems a fundamental difference between saying:

A) as a society, we want financially to help group A (the homeless, the hungry, fashion victims, what have you) and we can set the level of help to the level of financial need; and

B) if you serve in our military for 20 years, we'll give you this COLA'd pension for the rest of your life.



Case A may be a noble sentiment and a societal moral obligation, but it will almost certainly be subject to the whims of the political process and the state of the government purse.

Case B is a contract. It is not typically a defense to a breach of contract suit that the other side does not need the money you were supposed to pay them.
I do not disagree. Nevertheless, when things get tight expediency gets a hearing.

Contracts were never meant to enshrine decisions which have become questionable for eternity.

Ha
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Old 12-20-2013, 02:47 PM   #68
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I don't think so. The changes in the Federal system were done on a "from now on, current employees will..." basis. The present Murray-Ryan deal has the same thing--current federal employees get reductions in their retirement credits from this point forward. The cuts to military retirement that are in the soon-to-pass deal cut the already-earned retirement pay of servicemembers who are already retired. That's a different deal entirely. This retirement pay is simply deferred compensation that was part of their total compensation package when they were out there performing the tasks that the nation asked. Now, after they met their end of the bargain, this pay is going to be reduced. It's a failure to pay for services that were already performed. For those retiring today at 42 YO, it will result in an approx 18% smaller monthly retirement check when they are 61 YO. The promise now is to restore the cut money when they turn 62, but I can't see why anyone should expect that promise to be kept. 62 will become 65, 65 will become 67 (the individual's "full retirement age" for SS), etc.

Very little talk about this cut in the press, and the House sure pushed it through amazingly fast after. A final vote is expected in the Senate next week. There's some signs of pushback on this particular provision on both sides of the political spectrum, but it would take more pressure to cause any real modifications before a vote. If it isn't changed/stripped out before a vote, it never will be.
Calculated today: an 11% total reduction in the first 20 years for my benefit (starting in 2020). That's total value of the benefit; at the 20 year point, the benefit is reduced by 18% for that year alone. And they proposed and voted on this in about a week. $6 billion in savings over 10 years, and this is the best way they could make those savings? By kicking the problem down the curb a little bit at the expense of those already done serving??
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:14 PM   #69
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Contracts were never meant to enshrine decisions which have become questionable for eternity.
Maybe not, but they're also not meant to be shoved aside and overrun in the middle of the night by sneaking it in a budget bill. The personal equivalent of this is financing a house, then going to your lender after the first year of payments on a 30-year loan and saying: "Your interest charges no longer fit into my budget, therefore I will no longer pay them. Thank you for your cooperation and understanding. I really appreciate it!"
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Old 12-20-2013, 05:22 PM   #70
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Doesn't the contract allow for USG to change terms?
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Old 12-29-2013, 07:16 PM   #71
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Sorry, it's been a while since I visited this post. Tons of good info from all of you! I appreciate it.
Yeah, it's funny how confident I was in my pension when I originally posted this....now, not so much. Very sad that our government could stoop to such a low level and try to steal promised money away from those who sacrificed so much.
I am a little disappointed in a couple of the responses from folks who seem to feel that the military pension should be on the table just as everything else is during budget talks. Samclem really made some valid points to dispute this.
Regardless, i will find a way to cut down on my work hours and enjoy my life. Life is too short to spend 40 hours a week doing something other than what you want to be doing.
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Old 12-29-2013, 09:33 PM   #72
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I wonder if veterans disability compensation colas are next on the chopping block?
They are included already in the current "deal"
[mod edit]
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Old 01-01-2014, 12:56 PM   #73
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"Contracts were never meant to enshrine decisions which have become questionable for eternity."

It's been a while since I studied Contract Law, but it seem to me that is exactly what a Contract means. Well, maybe not eternity, but certainly for the life of the contract. Many businesses, governments and individuals make stupid decisions that are enshrined by a contract and they have to live up to them. I can't imagine how NFL, or other pro ball players would feel if their employers unilaterally changed their contracts, and then said, 'by the way you made a commitment and you have to server out the rest of that time'

The military is, and has been. an easy shot for politicians. Very few politicians have large number of military in their districts, and many that are, vote in some other district.
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:37 AM   #74
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Calculated today: an 11% total reduction in the first 20 years for my benefit (starting in 2020). That's total value of the benefit; at the 20 year point, the benefit is reduced by 18% for that year alone. And they proposed and voted on this in about a week. $6 billion in savings over 10 years, and this is the best way they could make those savings? By kicking the problem down the curb a little bit at the expense of those already done serving??
Thanks for sharing this info. I now understand it is not going to be as bad as I first thought. Sort of like taking SS AT 62 or waiting until 66. There is no doubt which route I would take if I were retiring from the military this year. Most will never even notice the pay cut. Is this cut in stone as of 1-1 2014? or is this a rumor?
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:49 AM   #75
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Sorry, it's been a while since I visited this post. Tons of good info from all of you! I appreciate it.
Yeah, it's funny how confident I was in my pension when I originally posted this....now, not so much. Very sad that our government could stoop to such a low level and try to steal promised money away from those who sacrificed so much.
I am a little disappointed in a couple of the responses from folks who seem to feel that the military pension should be on the table just as everything else is during budget talks. Samclem really made some valid points to dispute this.
Regardless, i will find a way to cut down on my work hours and enjoy my life. Life is too short to spend 40 hours a week doing something other than what you want to be doing.
I again wish you luck in working under 40 hours a week at your age. Sometimes in life we have to do things we do not like. [mod edit]
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Old 01-02-2014, 07:27 PM   #76
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I thought I read that retired military that we're disabled would not be effected by the 1% decrease in cola. Does anyone know how that works? Do you have to be 100% disabled? What if you are determined to be 30% disabled at retirement; would you be exempt from the -1% deal?
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Old 01-02-2014, 07:38 PM   #77
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I thought I read that retired military that we're disabled would not be effected by the 1% decrease in cola. Does anyone know how that works? Do you have to be 100% disabled? What if you are determined to be 30% disabled at retirement; would you be exempt from the -1% deal?
This might help answer that question:

Quote:
...military retirees receiving a disability pension are covered by a different section of federal law, so this change does not apply to them.
Congress cuts military pensions
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Old 01-02-2014, 08:04 PM   #78
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Can't have a discussion about military, federal employee, and Social Security COLAS without having a discussion about CPI and the CPI-W. As I understand, the rationale behind putting Federal FERS retirees on the -1% "diet cola" in 1984 was that the CPI-W overstates actual cost-of-living inflation for the average retiree. (perhaps we "geezers" eat more chicken than steak, or something like that?) I'm guessing they're using the same rationale with this military retiree thing?

I'm certainly no expert on the ins & outs of the various CPI's .... but could be they will at some point eventually develop a brand new CPI-? for all Federal and Military retirees as well as Social Security recipients? Simpson-Bowles as I understand recommend to Congress all Federal COLAS be tied to the "chained CPI" ... whatever that is.

(as an aside, and not to derail - but I s'pose there's nothing preventing someone coming up with the idea to throw us all off our current Federal & military retiree medical packages and onto the State insurance exchanges with a big "subsidy" in order to bolster up that system. Or perhaps that idea's already been floated. Who knows? Anything is possible I guess)
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:01 PM   #79
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(as an aside, and not to derail - but I s'pose there's nothing preventing someone coming up with the idea to throw us all off our current Federal & military retiree medical packages and onto the State insurance exchanges with a big "subsidy" in order to bolster up that system. Or perhaps that idea's already been floated. Who knows? Anything is possible I guess)

That would definitely NOT make me happy.
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