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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-11-2005, 06:18 PM   #61
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

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Originally Posted by Brat
Laurence:
At this point, and in your situation, you should be interviewing them.
I strongly second Brat's counsel.* Have your own series of questions to assure yourself they have tangible evidence of being able to deliver on what your current employer can not.
If personal development is a key item, ask them to describe a specific employee's progress after joining the company in a function similar to you.
If economic rewards are the ticket, ask them what they do to remain competitive for talent.* What percentile of competitive pay do they target to set their pay ranges. Do they have pay ranges?* If so what are they?
A great indicator of the quality of culture is their turnover rate.* What is it?* If they do not know--it is a yellow flag.
Good luck
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-12-2005, 09:38 PM   #62
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

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Originally Posted by soupcxan
Thanks for the input Nords...I WISH I could belong to local community groups and have a family, but being forced to relocate every 6 months (and then every 18 months once I finish this program, if you want to keep moving up the ladder) makes that extremely difficult. Hence my desire to get out at some point in my 5-year plan.

Why does this company force you to move around so much? I guess they think it builds character. And maybe it does, but I think there are other ways to get there that don't take such a large toll on your personal life.
My take is that your company wants to make sure that you are exposed to every aspect of the company so that when you're ready to become upper management, you don't go in with a particular mindset, be it marketing, sales, finance, or engineering. I think you're on the fast track.

I see a lot of East Indian engineers moving around and working crazy hours, but they seem to be able to get hooked up through the traditional arranged-marriage route. It would appear that they have a vast network of web sites, referral services, and relatives. Come to think of it, arranged marriage probably isn't such a bad idea! LOL
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-21-2005, 07:49 PM   #63
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

Well, interesting update, the "other" company wanted to hire me, but didn't want to pay enough to make starting over worth it. So I'm still at the same place. But now my promotion paperwork has been completed and is with HR. Of course, HR is dragging their feet, "we don't normally do x, the metrics book say only do y" etc. etc. So I was just trying to be patient, and along come the Director of a department I applied to a year before. He declined to bring me on because I was too green for the position, but they now have a slot one notch down. This department would be the most awesome move ever, totally in the right path, stakes are a lot higher but so is the pay. Plus, they pay overtime (because there is OVERTIME). Crapola is already starting to hit the fan, my director might pull a franchise player clause on me and match whatever they offer, but frankly I don't want him to, because where I am has a much lower ceiling than where I'd go. How do I wrangle out of it without ticking him off? (Not into bridge burning, plus he's a cool guy). If this works out it will be huge. DW is talking about being a stay at home mom-imagine, big promotion pushes out my ER date, but for the right reasons. My work life is getting to be like a soap opera. :P
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-21-2005, 07:53 PM   #64
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

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Originally Posted by Laurence
My work life is getting to be like a soap opera. :P
"The Young and the Restless" or "Another World"?

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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-21-2005, 07:57 PM   #65
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

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"The Young and the Restless" or "Another World"?

Definitely "Young and the Restless"! I'll admit, for all the wrangling and meetings and drama, I still ain't seen one extra penny (besides bonuses). I'm trying not to hold my breath this time.
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-21-2005, 09:12 PM   #66
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Well, interesting update, the "other" company wanted to hire me, but didn't want to pay enough to make starting over worth it.
Probably a good thing. That committee hiring marathon interview could have been just a small taste of the time you'd be spending in meetings learning your new job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
I'll admit, for all the wrangling and meetings and drama, I still ain't seen one extra penny (besides bonuses). I'm trying not to hold my breath this time.
Maybe they're trying to figure out what kind of new (extra?) assignment to give you for you to educate them on what you've been doing for them. Perhaps a PowerPoint presentation (with soundtrack & laser lights) and a display booth? I think that you should include photos of Tori's birthday and your butt-kicking Wisconsin relatives so that the company realizes that you don't need to be working for them to be able to live your life... throw in a few surfboard pictures... then tell them "But, hey! No pressure!!"
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-22-2005, 08:38 AM   #67
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Definitely "Young and the Restless"! I'll admit, for all the wrangling and meetings and drama, I still ain't seen one extra penny (besides bonuses). I'm trying not to hold my breath this time.
Nay, it is for sure "The Days of Our Labs".

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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-22-2005, 09:32 AM   #68
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

Speaking of the "Days of Our Labs", I just found myself in a bit of a problem. The business school I'm applying to insists that one of the references must be from an employer. If I ask any of my current supervisors for a recommendation, then they would know my plans for sure -- I plan to leave work to attend business school full time. Should I ask, or should I ask somebody from a previous job (from almost 4 years ago)?

Buns
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-22-2005, 10:08 AM   #69
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

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Originally Posted by BunsOfVeal
Speaking of the "Days of Our Labs", I just found myself in a bit of a problem. The business school I'm applying to insists that one of the references must be from an employer. If I ask any of my current supervisors for a recommendation, then they would know my plans for sure -- I plan to leave work to attend business school full time. Should I ask, or should I ask somebody from a previous job (from almost 4 years ago)?

Buns
You're better off sticking with someone from your old employer for a reference. Even if you trust someone at your current employer, it's still bound to get around to the wrong people. One way of ensuring a good reference from someone four years in your past is to write the "script", or create a list of bullet points/historical facts about your work at your former employer. You can also give your old employer reference some insight into what you're currently doing at your present employer, especially if you've taken on more responsibilities and/or stepped into a managerial role. I've done this in my career, and it's worked wonders when the old employer reference mentions my current activities in the context of progressive growth/maturity.
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-22-2005, 05:15 PM   #70
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

Gatsby, thank you for your very insightful reply. I will attempt what you have advised.

Thanks,

Buns
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-26-2005, 10:57 PM   #71
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Definitely "Young and the Restless"! I'll admit, for all the wrangling and meetings and drama, I still ain't seen one extra penny (besides bonuses). I'm trying not to hold my breath this time.
UPDATE: Got a 12.5% raise today, and I have an interview this Thursday with a department that wants to nab me, maybe I can get another 10% on top! FINALLY!
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-26-2005, 11:51 PM   #72
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

The other department is a better track, remember.* And they pay overtime.

I doubt that HR will approve a double pay increase unless your current pay is lower than the bottom of that job's pay range.

The way that pay ranges work is that when you are in the lowest quartile raises (assuming that your company isn't in a pay freeze) come rapidly.* Increases slow a bit up through about midpoint +10% (60th%tile).* After that they slow a lot unless you are an 'individual contributor' (aka, hot shot).

The best way to grow pay is to get promotions, however, if you receive ovetime pay (and work some) you may be taking home more than your boss with a lot less grief.
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-27-2005, 08:10 AM   #73
 
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

All post here is great. yup but you all missing one point. The ONLY way that i see to RE is ...... WORK FOR YOURSELF.

working for a company and put away money in 401k is NOT enough. i worked for the same company for 10 years and mine 401k is only worth 2 years of my salary. my brother 401k is at least ten time his salary...once u work for yourself u can put as much as $40k into your ira and can generate passive income.

that's the way to RE
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-27-2005, 09:34 AM   #74
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brat
The other department is a better track, remember. And they pay overtime.

I doubt that HR will approve a double pay increase unless your current pay is lower than the bottom of that job's pay range.

The way that pay ranges work is that when you are in the lowest quartile raises (assuming that your company isn't in a pay freeze) come rapidly. Increases slow a bit up through about midpoint +10% (60th%tile). After that they slow a lot unless you are an 'individual contributor' (aka, hot shot).

The best way to grow pay is to get promotions, however, if you receive ovetime pay (and work some) you may be taking home more than your boss with a lot less grief.
Somebody told me something similar yesterday. The job I'm going for is one grade higher than I am now, and my raise puts me right at the 25% of that grade. We'll see if I even get an offer.

Dr. Eric, yes, you are right, but my current view of working for myself is the same as my view on tatoos: I like the idea a lot, but I haven't found something yet that I would be passionate enough about to make that kind of commitment to. Researching....
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-27-2005, 09:42 AM   #75
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

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Originally Posted by EricMD
All post here is great. yup but you all missing one point.* The ONLY way that i see to RE is ...... WORK FOR YOURSELF.

working for a company and put away money in 401k is NOT enough. i worked for the same company for 10 years and mine 401k is only worth 2 years of my salary. my brother 401k is at least ten time his salary...once u work for yourself u can put as much as $40k into your ira and can generate passive income.

that's the way to RE
As everyone knows, I've been preaching that philosophy for a long time. *However, I concede that it's not the ONLY way to FIRE. *Also, you are not restricted to a 401(k) for savings. *I don't know how passive income figures into any of this, but maybe you meant to say deferred income. *You could always contribute to non-qualified plans such as annuities if you are looking to defer taxation until you withdraw.

But I think generally you are correct that being self-employed offers more freedom to work as you want to work and has a greater potential for increasing your wealth. *Plus, not having to work under the command of a "boss" who tells you what to do, how to do it, when to come in, when to leave, when to take a vacation, and all the other controlling factors he has on you 8 hours a day is priceless.
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-27-2005, 09:45 AM   #76
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

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Originally Posted by Laurence
...my view on tatoos: I like the idea a lot, but I haven't found something yet that I would be passionate enough about to make that kind of commitment to. Researching....
I'm seeing some really elaborate tatoos placed over the but-tocks in my yoga class....is that where you are considering puting yours L?
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-27-2005, 09:47 AM   #77
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

Laurence: Since it is one grade higher you might get an increase for the promotion of something like 5% because of the very recent normal increase. *If you don't get that, negotiate for the promotional increase after 90 days- or any cycle that is earlier than their normal cycle that doesn't disqualify you for their annual pay adjustment (assuming that they have such a system). *Work with your new boss and HR rep as they know how the process has worked in the past [warning: past practices are no guarintee of future action]. *

IMHO the best time to caputure an increase is at selection because everyone is working for the relationship. *After a few months reality sets in.
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-27-2005, 09:50 AM   #78
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

Thanks for the tips, Brat! I will definitely negotiate for the timeline (in writing!). I'll update Thursday night.
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-27-2005, 10:36 AM   #79
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

Don't demand it in writing but do confirm the new boss's committment in writing the same day. Include any other agreements the both of you made.

Start of with something to the effect of: I am looking forward to joining your team .....
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?
Old 09-27-2005, 02:22 PM   #80
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Re: Career: how to get where I want to be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
:* I like the idea a lot, but I haven't found something yet that I would be passionate enough about to make that kind of commitment to.* Researching....
Laurance,
Congrats on making some progress!! As a self employed person, I can confirm there are significant economic advantages to the status but you also have some downside, in that self-employed can also mean, you can be/are the one who has to make something happen and a vacation that forgets work can be a challenge.
Your expertise in the IT world gives you a wonderful opportunity to have both employment and a separate business either consulting or providing technical services off-line.* You are more qualified to separate what you can do off-line but it is a great way to build a client base to cushion the transition if you ever decide to bag-it at the wage game.
Word of caution, is be sure your employer is aware of your activities if there is any chance of a conflict of interest.
Congrats again on the promo.
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