Discussing salary, a taboo not to be broken?

[SteveR]

...If you aren't happy with how society values your contributions, don't bitch to me.  Either makee different choices or start a political campaign, wanker.

I doubt name calling will be of much value in your argument. Many people here have worked plenty hard at their careers or businesses; some are highly valued by society but not in a financial sense. Teachers don't make much compared to other professions that require far less education. Most teachers I know have to have a Masters and continuing education every so many year to be at the top of their salary range. Other professions and many small businesses provide a much higher standard of living but are not as valued by society.

We all have to make the best of what we have and learn to live within our means. The means of some are just bigger than others and fairness has nothing to do with it.

 

[Andre1969]

Far be it from me to look up to a pro athlete, doctor, lawyer, or whatever, simply because of their titles. I value people based on who they are, not what they do or how much money they make or blow. But when you think about it, for every pro athlete out there who's made it big, how many thousands tried for that dream and failed miserably, and are now working on a loading dock somewhere wasting their life fretting over what could have been?

And then, even if you do make the big time, well, just like the old song, "we'll never forget you till somebody new comes along". Or you could get a career-wrecking injury. And while a lot of these guys do live large, they often spend large and end up deep in debt.

So while our society may be twisted where these people get payed millions of bucks to play a kids' game while teachers just scrape by, that's how it is, and people know this when they strive for their careers.

As for my buddy who's a teacher, the difference in pay between him and me probably isn't all that great. I make $50K per year now, and I think he might make around $45K. When you figure that I'm 3 years older and have been in the workforce longer, that balances things a bit. By the time he's 3 years older, he might be making $50K or more.

Still, even on these relatively modest salaries, there's a vast disparity between us. He's always running around, eating out, using a lot of gas, racking up the miles on his car and wearing it out, and so forth. He has a part time job too, so combine the two and he's making more than I do.

Now there's nothing wrong with the lifestyle he chooses. If he enjoys going out more often and running all over the place, then more power to him. But then don't turn around and complain about how unfair the system is that I end up being so much better off financially than he is. It's more than just the salary. If it were reversed and I made $45K while he made $50K, it wouldn't make a difference. There's more to it than how much you make. How much you spend is also an awfully big factor!

 

[grumpy]

Its no mystery how society values various professions: if the services a profession provides are widely desired and the ability to provide them is relatively rare, then the compensation will be high (e.g. top entertainers or athletes). If the services are not widely desired, or the ability to provide them is common (burgher flipping, ditch digging) then the compensation will be low. Supply and demand, like everything else.

Grumpy

 

[WanderALot]

At least 4-5 of my closest friends know how much I make. We're pretty close so it's
not really a big deal. One of my friends and I have had a friendly rivarly for over 10 years.
We both graduated at about the same time but in different fields. He's a CS
major and I'm an EE. Everytime one us of gets a raise we call the other person to tell
them. Our salaries have always been very close even though he's had much more
responsibilities than me. One time, our yearly salaries were separated by $5!

 

[brewer12345]

I doubt name calling will be of much value in your argument.  Many people here have worked plenty hard at their careers or businesses; some are highly valued by society but not in a financial sense.  Teachers don't make much compared to other professions that require far less education.  Most teachers I know have to have a Masters and continuing education every so many year to be at the top of their salary range.  Other professions and many small businesses provide a much higher standard of living but are  not as valued by society. 

We all have to make the best of what we have and learn to live within our means.  The means of some are just bigger than others and fairness has nothing to do with it. 

Yup, but teachers, for example, made a conscious choice to pursue their career. That means they CHOSE to accept a less lucrative career, presumably for the other positives of the position. Those who spend time complaining about how society undervalues them are whining, plain and simple.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

I think that jay's beef is that the envy and complaining is often directed at those in high-paying professions rather than at society.  I worked really effin' hard and climbed some pretty ugly walls to get to where I am in my profession and earning power.  It didn't fall out of the sky and land in my lap; I chose and stuck to my course.  If you aren't happy with how society values your contributions, don't bitch to me.  Either makee different choices or start a political campaign, wanker.

Not exactly.  I believe that much of the envy and complaining is directed at the wrong person.  That is, such negativity is directed at those who have more, rather than the person (i.e. the one who is envious and complaining) who is ultimately responsible for the disparity.  Like Brewer, I worked very hard to get where I am.  Hard work in school and working 60-70 hour weeks for years without a real vacation.  For someone who didn't do any of the foregoing to complain that it's not "fair" for me to receive a high salary I have only one thing to say. 

I earned it.

 

[saluki9]

The CFA Institute publishes just such a suurvey. I found the numbers to be quite eye-popping when I plugged in my particulars.

In what way? I read the report and used the little calculator they have in the members area now. I was shocked at how close it was. It literally came within 2-3% of my current comp.

 

[brewer12345]

In what way?  I read the report and used the little calculator they have in the members area now.  I was shocked at how close it was.  It literally came within 2-3% of my current comp.   

I found the numbers to be eye-popping because this is the first year I will (hopefully) be making that kind of comp.

 

[Martha]

Now you guys are making me want to break the taboo and ask how much Saluki and Brewer are making or expecting to make.

I know what all my partners/shareholder make and they know what I make.

When I was an associate we were told not to share what we made but we had a Laurence type in our group who got us all to share. We effectively kept that a secret and it was useful in negotiations.

 

[saluki9]

Now you guys are making me want to break the taboo and ask how much Saluki and Brewer are making or expecting to make.

I'll answe like Chris Rock did when they asked him how much he made on SNL. "Doctor money" is my answer. I don't think I'll be buying a jet or a house on the lake with my bonus for the job, but I'm certainly not going to complain either. As I'm almost positive Brewer will attest, if I were to break it down hourly it wouldn't be so impressive.

 

[brewer12345]

I'll answe like Chris Rock did when they asked him how much he made on SNL.  "Doctor money" is my answer.  I don't think I'll be buying a jet or a house on the lake with my bonus for the job, but I'm certainly not going to complain either.  As I'm almost positive Brewer will attest, if I were to break it down hourly it wouldn't be so impressive.   

Most definately. I would imagine that plumbers in my suburban 'hood get more per hour than I do. If you add in all the hours of unpaid labor in grad school and chasing Lady CFA, I might have been better off in Burger King as the fry cook.

 

[saluki9]

Most definately. I would imagine that plumbers in my suburban 'hood get more per hour than I do. If you add in all the hours of unpaid labor in grad school and chasing Lady CFA, I might have been better off in Burger King as the fry cook.

Not only that, think of all the free fries! mmmmm... French fries.

 

[just_hatched]

Hard work in school and working 60-70 hour weeks for years without a real vacation. For someone who didn't do any of the foregoing to complain that it's not "fair" for me to receive a high salary I have only one thing to say.

I earned it.

Are you to be held up as a model of capitalism and strong work ethic or to be pitied for being a workaholic?

(hey, maybe we're back to that balance thing...)

Sorry if I have this tendency to ask my questions in black or white format.

 

[Spanky]

Working extremely long hours merely for the pursuit of advancements, status, or acquisition of wealth seems misguided. These kind of people will never be satisfied with they already have. They simply want more.

 

[SteveR]

Working extremely long hours merely for the pursuit of advancements, status, or acquisition of wealth seems misguided. These kind of people will never be satisfied with they already have. They simply want more.

Unless you use the system and play the game to advance your career to get a good salary and save a big chunk of it while getting bonuses and stock options that you can leverage to ER. The trick is to know you are playing the game and when you have won.

 

[REWahoo]

The trick is to know you are playing the game and when you have won.

I agree with your general theme, but don't think you can ever "win" at this game. I would say the trick is to know when to cash in your chips and head for the exit.

 

[SteveR]

I agree with your general theme, but don't think you can ever "win" at this game.  I would say the trick is to know when to cash in your chips and head for the exit.

/quote]

You can win at this game and I have plenty of examples from my life at MegaCorp. But, you do have to know when to "hold them and when to fold them". I was moderately successful at the game and knew when to off the corp. ladder and become a bystander...with full benefits.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

I agree with your general theme, but don't think you can ever "win" at this game.  I would say the trick is to know when to cash in your chips and head for the exit.

It really comes down to reaching your goal, rather than striving to have more than the next guy.

 

[Andre1969]

My co-worker just let a little hint slip about her salary, but I'm taking it with a grain of salt, as she likes to play mind games. She was talking about a friend of hers who's in the gov't, and about to get promoted to a GS-12. She asked me how to find the GS pay scales on the web, and I told her to just google "Federal government payscale" or something like that.

Well, after a few minutes, she made a comment like "Wow, when she gets that GS-12 she'll be making almost as much as me! Well, I looked up the scale, and it looks like a GS-12 starts off at around $63K! All I have to say is she'd better NOT be making that much, considering what a good employee she is! (NOT) That's about $13,000 more than what I make.

However, she HAS been in the workforce longer than me, as she's soon going to be 44, while I'm 35. So I guess it's quite possible that she COULD be making that much more than me. Next time raise time comes around, maybe I should try holding out for more? Nah, seriously though I think she's just trying to mess with my little mind. :

 

[Brat]

The one consistently statistically significant variable in pay is legnth of service.  See my earlier comment on other factors that impact comp within a job title.

The best way for good performers to increase their pay is to get a promotion.

 

[mikew]

Working extremely long hours merely for the pursuit of advancements, status, or acquisition of wealth seems misguided. These kind of people will never be satisfied with they already have. They simply want more.

In all of my jobs, I have always felt its up or out. I have never been in a job I felt comfortable coasting in. Always had to play the games. Then again, out has always ended up being the better alternative.

Mike

 

[SteveR]

It really comes down to reaching your goal, rather than striving to have more than the next guy.

That is the key.  The game you should be playing is doing only what you need to do to get to your goals.  If you are in it for the competition and playing games with your peers then you have lost before you start.  Sure you may end up with more toys but so what.  There is so much more to life than ending up with all the toys.  

Stepping on my Soapbox:

Remember that after you are gone, all that will be left of you is the memories you leave in the minds of those that knew you.  No one will remember or care what job you had or how many cars you owned.  They will remember what kind of person you were.

Off Soapbox.