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Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You Do
Old 03-17-2005, 06:00 AM   #1
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Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You Do

I am an advocate of a new understanding of the concept of "retirement," one in which over the course of a lifetime you gain increasing levels of financial freedom and thereby gain an increasingly ability to take your life where you want to take it. I refer to this as living "the Self-Directed Life."

There's an article in the March 15, 2005, Wall Street Journal titled "Can a Job Layoff Be A Good Thing?" which provides a few stories of how people who were laid off from jobs they endured were able to make use of their savings and already-acquired smarts to manage transitions to work they loved.

Here's an except:

"Gail Blanke, an executive coach and author of "Between Trapezes," recalls a client who was about to be laid off as a lawyer at a big law firm. Ms. Blanke asked her to think about things she had loved doing over the course of her life. The woman recalled that she had enjoyed performing in school plays when she was younger. She longed to be in front of people, performing or presenting to them. So she found a new job that incorporates those desires: She became a lawyer at a corporation where she gives presentations to nonlegal staffers about the legal department's resources....

"Dave Cagle, a 49-year-old Minnesotan, is another person who figured out a way to combine his work experience with avocation. He spent 26 years in finance and administration at a metals-distribution company before being laid off in June after a merger. ....He's a wine connoisseur, so he looked into opening a wine shop. During his research, he came across a franchising business that offered a simpler route than starting his own shop from scratch. Crucially, he researched the franchise, the wine business as a whole, and the demographics of the location where he wants to open the shop."
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 07:00 AM   #2
 
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

Fine, but this is not retiring. It is switching careers.
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 07:11 AM   #3
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

I think of it as "retiring" from one way of working so that you can begin a life of working in a completely different way. There's all the difference in the world between doing work you choose because you need the bucks and can stand the work involved and doing work you choose because you love it and it also happens to bring in a little extra spending money.

It's the difference between work being a drag and work being the greatest joy of your life. I view the date of my early retirement not as the day my productive years came to a close, but as the day when a great number of exciting possibilities for more rewarding and important work opened up to me.
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 08:24 AM   #4
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

*****: work being the greatest joy of your life

That will never happen for this guy.... unless male prostitute for select top female models qualify.
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 09:15 AM   #5
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

I understand, Ben. Working in retirement is not for everyone. Nor is a retirement without working for everyone. I think this is one of those things where it is the particular individual who has to go with what sounds best to him or her.

The work I do helping middle-class workers win financial freedom early in life takes up most of the time opened to me by early retirement. But I have found more time for lots of non-work stuff too. I devote an hour each day to exercise (biking or running or walking). I devote an hour each day to reading. I spend more time with my kids than most people employed at the big consulting firm that I used to be employed at are able to spend with their kids.

In the subtitle of my book I describe Passion Saving as "The Path to Plentiful Free Time and Soul-Satisfying Work." I find great appeal in both of those benefits of this money management approach. I wouldn't want to do without the added free time to just goof off that has been opened to me through early retirement, and I wouldn't want to do without the opportunity to pursue all sorts of exciting work projects that were not open to me in earlier days either.

I don't see this as an either-or sort of thing. The best of all worlds is to enjoy both more free time and more soul-satisfying work.
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 09:41 AM   #6
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

Quote:
I think of it as "retiring" from one way of working so that you can begin a life of working in a completely different way. There's all the difference in the world between doing work you choose because you need the bucks and can stand the work involved and doing work you choose because you love it and it also happens to bring in a little extra spending money.

It's the difference between work being a drag and work being the greatest joy of your life. I view the date of my early retirement not as the day my productive years came to a close, but as the day when a great number of exciting possibilities for more rewarding and important work opened up to me.
*****: I have read many of your posts before, and have always restrained myself, because I really don't like to "pile on" anybody.
But for crying out loud, get a grip!
Your point of view on this subject may be appropriate for somebody on "active duty", and searching for a better way to make a living, but what in the hell has it got to do with retirement?
You have taken the expresson of "glutton for punishment" to new heights, and although at times I do feel bad for you because of the reception you receive on your posts, I hope you will get the help that you need to get over this "obsession" of yours.
I am sincere, and wish you well.
Jarhead
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 09:42 AM   #7
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

Hi ***** ,
I might work a bit for fun - heck it might even pay me some money, but it will never be work being the greatest joy of your life . Cheers!
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 10:24 AM   #8
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

what in the hell has it got to do with retirement?

It has a lot to do with it, ex-jarhead.

I started writing about the Passion Saving concept at the Motley Fool board on a regular basis in December 1999. That was our first board, and it was a tiny board at the time. I had 8 Posts of the Day during the year 2000. The first of those was "Unwritten Rules of Wage Slavery". That post alone more than doubled the traffic at the board. Permanently. In one day, we more than doubled the number of posts, as we never returned to the earlier levels.

I wrote a report titled "Secrets of Retiring Early" that set forth this same approach. It sold over 5,000 copies in six months. Intercst wrote a review of it saying that, if I ever were to expand the report into a book, he was confident that it would become "the Bible of the Retire Early movement." Motley Fool had an on-line seminar on retirement they were selling at the time. When they saw the reaction to my report, they paid me to become an instructor and changed the marketing campaign so that they could attract people interested not in any old kind of retirement. but in early retirement.

I had a discussion board at the site where the report was sold where customers asked questions about it, and I also received a large number of e-mails. I still get e-mails every now and again today. One of the comments that I have heard most frequently is one along the lines of "What I really like about this report is that it offers me a way to tap into this early retirement stuff without having to give up on the idea of working for the rest of my life. I hate a lot of the stupid stuff about corporate employment, but I just can't see myself walking away from the world of work at age 40. That's nuts."

Lots and lots of people love the idea of retiring from the negative aspects of their work lives but retaining access to the positive aspects. I don't see any reason why they should not do just that. What is it to you? You retire the way you want to retire and let others retire the way in which others want to retire. What's the downside?
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 10:31 AM   #9
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

I might work a bit for fun - heck it might even pay me some money, but it will never be work being the greatest joy of your life .

You know that song "It's Only Rock and Roll?" Change the words aroung a bit. Make it "It's only Fun and Meaningful Work, But I Like It, Like It, Yes I DO!" Sing that one in the shower for seven days in a row and see if it helps.

I consider Joe Dominguez the godfather of our movement. He sold millions of copies of "Your Money or Your Life" before he died. He's not around to ask today, but I bet that if you asked him before he died whether he thought work was one of the great joys of life, he would have answered with an enthusiastic "Yes!" I heard a talk the guy gave on a casette tape, and the love of what he was doing came through loud and clear.

Some like vanilla and some like chocolate, Ben. That's the way it's always been and that's the way it probably always will be. The expression of a diversity of viewpoints is what gives a board community its strength and color. Make it all intercst all the time, and you have a dead board. If you don't want to take my word for it, take a look at what happened at the Motley Fool board.
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 11:05 AM   #10
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

I've sent Advance Reader copies of the book to the following people: (1) Ben (2) BeachBumz; (3) PeteyPerson; (4) Dory36; (5) JWR1945; and (6) Spl241. If you want to hear what someone other than me thinks of the book, you should ask one of them.

I expect the book to be available at my web site on May 1 or soon thereafter. At that point, every community member will have the opportunity to decide for himself or herself whether he or she cares enough to buy a copy, and, if he or she buys a copy, whether it was worth the money or not. At least at that point we won't have to speculate anymore.

Personally, I doubt that we are all going to be in agreement even then. It is not reasonable to expect 100 percent agreement on anything on a public discussion board. It's just not in the nature of the beast.
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 11:30 AM   #11
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

*****-

You present one hardly original idea-- that the price you pay for an investment determines the return, and hence is an important factor determining the survival of a retirement portfolio. This is a commonplace, over 100 years old. Just because some people don't agree, doesn't make it original when you put it forth.

I think it is a good idea; it just isn't your idea.

Mikey
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 11:37 AM   #12
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

Just because some people don't agree, doesn't make it original when you put it forth.

The idea that changes in valuation levels affect long-term returns is certainly not an original one. That one dates back to the maxim "buy low, sell high."

What was original back in late 1995/early 1996 is the idea of combining the idea that changes in valuation levels affect long-term returns with the idea of calculating the safe withdrawal rate by making reference to the historical stock-return data. That had never been done before at that time.

It has been done since by people other than me. By Bernstein, for example. I believe that in days to come it will be done by lots more. The conventional SWR methodology is the SWR methodology of the past. The Data-Based SWR Methodology is the SWR methodology of the future. It is not possible to make an accurate determination of what take-out number is safe without taking the effect of changes in valuation levels into account.
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 12:51 PM   #13
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

Translation: Its pissed off a lot of people in the last few days and another BAN has been called for, so its trying to soften up the crowd with a non-SWR sidebar post.

I'm warning you...William Shatner singing Madonnas "I'm crazy for you" is just about to be unleashed...


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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 01:50 PM   #14
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

SHATNER SINGS??

Boy have I lead a sheltered life.
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 02:06 PM   #15
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

Yeah, he is pretty good too. Innovative! Not afraid to go "where
no man has gone before".

JG
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 02:09 PM   #16
 
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

Excuse me TH, but I think your bunny has two pancakes on his head. The bottom pancake (which is resting on the bunny's head) is inverted.
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 02:11 PM   #17
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

he is pretty good too. *Innovative! *Not afraid to go "where no man has gone before".

Sort of a Dylan type then?
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 02:13 PM   #18
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

Is it just me, or are a lot of threads devolving into arguments with ***** (I wish someone would post the cliff's notes of the argument, so I knew what it is you are arguing about...seems to have something to do with market timing) and pictures of animals with food on their head. Personally, I don't see what it has to do with ER, but then I am a LONG way from ER...
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 02:43 PM   #19
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

Good eye John!

And if there is any remaining question, yes, they are buttermilk pancakes. Extremely well grilled too.

Soupcan...let me give you the readers digest version. ***** has been trolling early retirement web sites for about 3-4 years. Maybe 5. He is a very clever troll, who has picked a hot button issue to base his primary posts on. He's chosen an antagonist from the ranks of well respected early retirees. His troll is to start a discussion on the topic, claim he has some superior tool/methodology that will "save everyones retirement". This quickly devolves into book length posts that say essentially nothing, avoidance of any direct questions, then claims that he's being persecuted and receiving death threats. He then misquotes people who antagonize him out of context, further antagonizing them. His so-called "method" is based on using a valuation process that has eliminated data that is contrary to the desired results, to which a valuation model is applied to determine whether one should be heavily in stocks or not. In other words, market timing. His method has indicated that one should not own very much in equities since 1994. In other words, its failed to keep one in equities during the greatest bull market in history, and also failed during the recent run-up. He's been banned for this trolling from every early retirement web site except this one. He's skirted bans at this site twice, waiting out a cooling-off period before coming back on to troll again. His style is to disrupt every thread he can with his trolling on SWR's, death threats, intercst's "lies", his magic "tool", and then try to turn forum members against each other.

The most clear-cut evidence is here
http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/c....pl?board=HOCO

***** is openly mocked and made fun of by a large group of early retirees who have compiled a wide range of his patterns, lies, trolls and routines. He capers through this area giggling and chortling with glee.

What reasonable person would do that?

William Shatner sings...
http://www.frogstar.com/trek/Diamonds.mp3
http://www.frogstar.com/trek/Tman.MP3
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You
Old 03-17-2005, 04:20 PM   #20
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Re: Ditching What You Don't Like, Keeping What You

Personally, I don't see what it has to do with ER....

There's definitely some sort of funny business going on. I'm sure of it.
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