Divorce?

[utrecht]

Don't know what your religious beliefs are, but I've seen firsthand the positive affect that this program can have on wrecked marriages: re|engage Marriage Enrichment Program

Check it out.

Avoid divorce at all cost. It will send ripples throughout the rest of your life, your kids' lives, and their kids' lives that no amount of money can change.


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I have to take issue with this statement. I was married previously and it was absolute misery. I'm sure it was for her also because we just flat out didnt get along. We were opposites in many ways. She spent every cent she had and I wanted to save for retirement. She wanted keep up with the Jones' and I couldnt care less what anyone thought. We were on total opposite ends of the spectrum sexually. The point is that we were both miserable. Yes, it sent ripples throughout our lives, but now we have both been married to other people for over 20 years each. I dont know much at all about her marriage but there is no way possible that my wife could make me any happier. My ex-wife is still trying to keep up with the Jones' with no end of working anywhere in sight. I am happily retired with a much higher income than she has even while working. From what my grown son tells me, she is still a very unhappy grouchy controlling person. I couldnt be happier (unless my back was totally healed)

Yes it caused problems with our son, but I can easily argue that the problems would've been much worse if he had grown up watching continual fighting every day of his life.

So I say, do everything you can think of to save your marriage, but not just for the sake of still being married. Only do it if it results in a happy marriage for both of you. Life is short and everyone deserves to find someone that makes them happy. If that didnt happen the first time, there is someone else out there that will make you happy and that will make you a better person.

 

[athena53]

Yes it caused problems with our son, but I can easily argue that the problems would've been much worse if he had grown up watching continual fighting every day of his life.

Amen to that- DH (who turned out to be a spectacular stepfather) always says, "it's better to come from a broken home than to live in one".

I agree with the others, though, that the OP and his wife are going through a ton of things that would test the strength of any marriage, and he/they should try counseling first. I remember the days when DS was a newborn, and I had a job with regular hours, he was an easy baby and there were no other children needing my attention. I would have killed for 8 hours of solid sleep.

 

[Brat]

" I think me daydreaming about being alone stems from quite literally NEVER having a second alone, even in the bathroom. "

Every one of us Mom's has lived that experience and is discussed in many books on parenting. It doesn't change for Moms until the youngest is about 4. At least you get out of the house regularly.

If you have room in your home consider an au pair who can help with the babies.

 

[FUEGO]

" I think me daydreaming about being alone stems from quite literally NEVER having a second alone, even in the bathroom. "

Every one of us Mom's has lived that experience and is discussed in many books on parenting. It doesn't change for Moms until the youngest is about 4. At least you get out of the house regularly.

I hear this a lot but I just don't think it has to be true. I've done the stay at home dad thing for the last 2 years and it isn't that bad. Quite pleasurable overall compared to dealing with coworkers, work, commute, office politics, etc.

Granted I have family to help but for most of the past 2 years it was maybe a couple hours per week max and it's because I was out doing volunteer work (that I would have dropped sans family help being offered).

Nothing wrong with plugging your kid into a Netfix device for some Baby Einstein and letting them eat cookie dough off the floor if that preserves sanity and an intact marriage. Yeah, the kid might be slightly more ADD and slightly dumber but they, and you, will survive.

As for getting out of the house - there are so many play groups and baby/toddler/pre-k groups out there plus inexpensive paid activities to give you a minute to catch up on life and provide that social exposure to other human beings who won't pee/poop/vomit on you.

Oh, as for getting a minute alone in the bathroom ATC, try closing the door, locking it, and in a moderately loud voice yell out "Leave me alone - I'm trying to poop". It's important for kids to understand that there's a line somewhere and you don't cross that line when daddy's taking care of business. They'll see you again in 3-4 minutes and you can wipe their tears away at that point.

 

[Quest4Fire]

Nothing wrong with plugging your kid into a Netfix device for some Baby Einstein and letting them eat cookie dough off the floor if that preserves sanity and an intact marriage. Yeah, the kid might be slightly more ADD and slightly dumber but they, and you, will survive.
.

Great idea, leaving a bowl of ice cream outside the door.



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[explanade]

Slightly OT, the packaged cookie dough warns not to eat raw cookie dough.

Why is that?

 

[Meadbh]

Slightly OT, the packaged cookie dough warns not to eat raw cookie dough.

Why is that?

Raw eggs can harbor salmonella.

 

[Bamaman]

Much has been said on this subject, but even more important than you having moderate depression issues, your wife sounds as if she's in a severe postpartum depression.

She may be just one pill a day away from feeling much better about motherhood and being a wife. But it's of the utmost importance that she obtain physician assistance in addressing this very, very serious problem medicinally.

My daughter suffered serious postpartum depression, and her first child (now 8 yrs. old) was raised by the father and us. The whole episode is now a complete blur to her as she was incapable of performing as a parent. Your wife may be in this position. I often read of terrible things that happen to wives with young children in this situation--i.e. Susan Smith as the poster child for this subject.

You may need to get some help for your wife so she can get out of the house. Taking care of children can result in Cabin Fever--another source of depression. It's always best if young mothers have a routine that includes sources of pleasure outside the house--even if it's going to a health club. And help with the children would provide you with another set of eyes, as your wife needs to be watched carefully until she gets control of her emotions.

 

[Senator]

If you really need out, follow these steps.

Give the kids up for adoption or foster care.
Get a divorce.
Move on with your life.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Much has been said on this subject, but even more important than you having moderate depression issues, your wife sounds as if she's in a severe postpartum depression.

She may be just one pill a day away from feeling much better about motherhood and being a wife. But it's of the utmost importance that she obtain physician assistance in addressing this very, very serious problem medicinally.

My daughter suffered serious postpartum depression, and her first child (now 8 yrs. old) was raised by the father and us. The whole episode is now a complete blur to her as she was incapable of performing as a parent. Your wife may be in this position. I often read of terrible things that happen to wives with young children in this situation--i.e. Susan Smith as the poster child for this subject.

You may need to get some help for your wife so she can get out of the house. Taking care of children can result in Cabin Fever--another source of depression. It's always best if young mothers have a routine that includes sources of pleasure outside the house--even if it's going to a health club. And help with the children would provide you with another set of eyes, as your wife needs to be watched carefully until she gets control of her emotions.

I agree with the above. Pediatricians and OBgyns are supposed to inquire about postpartum depression. But they are often rushed. The reason pediatricians are involved is they see mothers far more often than the OBgyn. Be sure your pediatrician knows about your concerns before the seven week old's 2 month appointment. I also hope you can come to the appointment as well.


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[EastWest Gal]

If you really need out, follow these steps.

Give the kids up for adoption or foster care.
Get a divorce.
Move on with your life.

I hope that was sarcasm. Children are people, just like all of us on this forum. You want to screw up someone for life, abandon a child.

I'm retired, but I still have fantasies of running away. Running away from paying bills, doing tax returns, cleaning the house, etc. it doesn't end. It's just a lot less stressed.


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[JoeWras]

Raw eggs can harbor salmonella.

CYA. They pasteurize the eggs. Even flour can carry bacteria, so it is simply CYA for the packaged goods.

Live life. Save a marriage. Let them eat the packaged cookie dough!

 

[utrecht]

If you really need out, follow these steps.

Give the kids up for adoption or foster care.
Get a divorce.
Move on with your life.

We may need a new thread called "Hall of Fame of Worst Advice Ever"

 

[AllDone]

Yes, really. Seven weeks out from delivery is prime time for post-partum depression. Depression doesn't always cause crying, some people show it as anger instead. Almost all women have mildly depressed feelings just after delivery as the hormones adjust. Some women need medication -- and there's absolutely no shame in that.

Could a grandmother or aunt come help out for a few weeks (if that wouldn't make things worse?)

 

[FI by 2024]

Yes it caused problems with our son, but I can easily argue that the problems would've been much worse if he had grown up watching continual fighting every day of his life.

I have to chime in.

ATC, I agree with everybody that has suggested counseling and paid help and flowers/dinner. However, in the event that none of that works, please do not "stay together for the kids." I am one of those kids and it was a terrible way to grow up. Now my siblings and I are all in our 30s and we all don't really know how to have a functional relationship. Two of us are likely to never marry and another is mid-divorce. Speaking for myself, it's directly related to growing up in a house with a dysfunctional marriage and not trusting the institution. Plus I've had to watch my parents suffer needlessly for decades. It's a terrible situation to put your kids in.


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[RISP]

Give the kids up for adoption or foster care.

You are either horrible at humour, or just a horrible person. Please stop giving advice.

 

[Meadbh]

If you really need out, follow these steps.

Give the kids up for adoption or foster care.
Get a divorce.
Move on with your life.

That's not funny. And I hope you are not serious.

 

[Dash man]

I agree that it's best to not stay together for the kids. But it's important to share time with the kids and to keep visitations as amicable as possible. Don't try to manage how the other parent will deal with the kids and their activities, but try to keep open communication and let each other know the things all parents should know, good or bad. And don't get into fights at graduations or weddings...it never ends well.


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[O2Bfree]

Give the kids up for adoption or foster care

Not always bad advice. No doubt there are many kids who would have been better off with different parents. I'm adopted, and my life growing up was pretty darned good.

Might be a difficult change for older kids of course.

 

[poorcarver]

I wished every day when I was a kid that my mother would hand us over to someone, anyone. My Aunt and Uncle volunteered but no soap.

 

[utrecht]

Not always bad advice. No doubt there are many kids who would have been better off with different parents. I'm adopted, and my life growing up was pretty darned good.

Might be a difficult change for older kids of course.

Its not always bad advice if the parents are drug addicts or sex offenders or are incapable of being good parents but it doesnt sound like that is the case here at all.

 

[kneehigh]

I want to fight for this marriage. I want my kids to have a normal life.

You described being a family of 4, but you haven't been a couple for a while. You said that "you haven't experience life without each other". That's exactly what you have been experiencing. Life apart from each other even though you're sleeping in the same bed, living in the same house and taking care of the same children. You've become strangers in your own house. You don't have the emotional and spiritual connection that you once had when it was just the two of you.

She needs your attention and she's letting you know that by complaining about your laziness which is anything but... I don't think she care that you leave the house every morning, work so hard and provide so well for your family. She doesn't care that you're helping out with chores around the house after a tiring day. She doesn't understand the enormous pressure you have at work to get it right every time because the lives of hundreds of people are hanging on your shoulders. (I've been watching too many AIR DISASTERS on YOUTUBE.) You thought that the hard work and the monetary reward that provide for your family is what she is looking for but it's the very thing that puts a wedge between you and her.

You must have had some amorous connection before the kids came into the scene. There was a time when you couldn't keep your hands off her and vice versa. There was a time when all you wanted to do was to go home early and spend time with her--whatever she wanted to do and whatever she wanted to talk about.

I'd say (like many others here in this thread) rekindle that relationship with your wife. The fact that you're having these problem is a good thing because that means your relationship still has plenty of life in it just waiting for you to fan the flame once again. That second wind can be as good if not better than the first.

So, start this weekend. Forget the gifts or time with the extended family. There'll be plenty of time for that later. Find a friend or family babysitter for the weekend and take her for a long drive and a dinner or whatever. Face to face talking. When you have a conversation, let your guard down, listen, pay attention and RESTRAIN from defending yourself. Let her get things off her chest. Most of that stuff she doesn't even mean to say anyway.

Take it from there. Tell her what you appreciate about her. When you get home, do little things for her that shows you're paying attention to her and that she's important to you.

It's going to take a while to build that relationship you once enjoyed, but it'll get there. Peel the onion layer by layer. See that spending time rebuilding your relationship with her is more important, REALLY, than what you do at work. And if you consider your work important, you're marriage needs that much more attention. FIGHT for it. It takes time to win her back, and over time, I guarantee she'll be there for you. That's what you can look forward to when you're retired.

One day, you're kids will appreciate how you endured and made your relationship work. That is not a bad legacy that you leave with your posterity.

 

[Senator]

I hope that was sarcasm. Children are people, just like all of us on this forum. You want to screw up someone for life, abandon a child.

The kids life will be screwed up anyway you look at it. They will have step parents, or half parents. Joint custody where you live out of a suit case. Or sole custody where one parent pits itself against the other.

Living in a less-affluent neighborhood because there is less money. Going to lesser schools, Living without a father/mother figure, etc.

The list can go on forever...

It's not a guaranteed recipe for a screwed up childhood, but lack of a two parent family is a major factor in crime.

You have kids, suck it up. If you give on a mortgage, you lose the house. If you give on a marriage, you should lose the kids.

 

[samclem]

Unrelated question: Is there a way to give an "unThanks" that physically stinks when it is opened?

 

[ivinsfan]

The kids life will be screwed up anyway you look at it. They will have step parents, or half parents. Joint custody where you live out of a suit case. Or sole custody where one parent pits itself against the other.

Living in a less-affluent neighborhood because there is less money. Going to lesser schools, Living without a father/mother figure, etc.

The list can go on forever...

It's not a guaranteed recipe for a screwed up childhood, but lack of a two parent family is a major factor in crime.

You have kids, suck it up. If you give on a mortgage, you lose the house. If you give on a marriage, you should lose the kids.

Uhh, I can't decide if I should ignore you or take you on, in the spirit of Christmas I think I'll choose ignore.Happy Holidays from a child of a unhappy, divorced home who doesn't consider herself screwed up or a criminal. I found out my parents were regular people who loved their children and did the best they could.