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Old 09-11-2008, 09:22 PM   #21
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It IS a laxative, my bad, sorry to call you out! Smooth Move

Sold by Traditional Medicinals, a good company for making very high quality herbal teas of all sorts, plus they do offer black and green teas as well.
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Old 09-11-2008, 09:24 PM   #22
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Ya think?
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Old 09-11-2008, 09:34 PM   #23
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By the way, not to totally hijack the thread, I do agree that ER isn't the best goal to have in life if you do it to absurd extremes. But FI IS an excellent goal, IMHO. The pursuit of FI tends to teach frugality, long term planning, and at least for me helped get me through some depressing times working for 'da man'.

But I would never suggest a mindless pursuit of anything, whether ER, FI, immediate ratification, whatever. A well rounded person is usually happier than an obsessed person, no matter what the obsession. And if you don't know how to be happy by the time you RE, I doubt retiring will solve any of your problems. Again, MHO.
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:02 PM   #24
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And where is your cast ?
fixed, meant to say cat

As for tea, my favorites are loose teas, the types I usually drink the most are green/white, once in awhile I like black when I need to do late night studying. My favorite kind is honeydew melon and jasmine pearl green tea, which are naturally sweet teas. Many types of green tea doesn't really taste grassy at all, those are actually my least favorite of the green teas. The types I dislike the most are the bitter teas.
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:08 PM   #25
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My favorite black teas: ceylon and earl grey. I don't care much for green teas (too grassy).

I make my own herbal teas following traditional recipes. I use all kind of organic herbs that I buy in bulk or grow myself such as mint, chamomile, ginger, linden flowers, lemon verbena, and lemon balm to prepare the necessary brews (digestion, sleep, relaxation, etc...).
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:30 PM   #26
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Completely agree with OP. About a year ago I was really obsessed with ER. My target date is also 10+ years away, but I couldn't stop thinking about it. It made everything I did meaningless; I felt I was only on mile one of a hopelessly long marathon, and I was dying of dehydration.

I forced myself to think less about ER, and in the meanwhile, got a new and more interesting job. Now I think I am in a better place. I have developed frugal habits so that I don't have to feel squeezed, yet still save a reasonable amount. I take 2 international trips a year (traveling is my passion). I am not as obsessed with my FIRE date, and think that pushing it back for 5 years is not really the end of the world, so long as I like my job.

So yeah, my goal is to live my life fully while LBMM, make saving automatic, and try not to think about ER! If I am consistent, it will happen, regardless of how much or little I obsess over it.
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:33 AM   #27
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Interesting topic. We also save about half our income and tread this same balancing act between enjoying life now and deferring gratification. It would be easy to fall into the trap of living solely for ER, and arriving there bitter, or dead. In general I think we've made the right compromises. As time goes on, it seems that major luxuries are less and less material to happiness.

Recently I have been thinking the problem is not work, but working on other's schedule and priorities as so many of us do in corporate life. A part-time job could speed up ER, provide insurance against inflation and unexpected expenses, and generate satisfaction. Rather than flogging myself through the last few years of corporate life so that I can (with luck, inflation, medicare, and ss willing) never work again, it might make sense to look at part-time, self-employed work options.
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:03 AM   #28
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I was advised by the wiser folk on this board that I shouldn't try to "suck it up" for another 20 years, and that I needed to enjoy now. It took a while, but I think I've turned a corner. Life is so short, you don't know how many Saturdays you have left. Appreciate the fact you have money left over at the end of the month to invest, because so few people in the world do.

I'm going to spend two weeks in Hawaii next spring with my daughters, who will be 2 and 4 at the time. Those are memories I can't make up during retirement.
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Old 09-12-2008, 06:56 AM   #29
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By the way, not to totally hijack the thread, I do agree that ER isn't the best goal to have in life if you do it to absurd extremes. But FI IS an excellent goal, IMHO. The pursuit of FI tends to teach frugality, long term planning, and at least for me helped get me through some depressing times working for 'da man'.

But I would never suggest a mindless pursuit of anything, whether ER, FI, immediate ratification, whatever. A well rounded person is usually happier than an obsessed person, no matter what the obsession. And if you don't know how to be happy by the time you RE, I doubt retiring will solve any of your problems. Again, MHO.
Exactly. I do think that I've been "mindlessly pursuing" FIRE. My main point is that I'd kind of lost the forest while looking at the trees. The big picture is enjoying life. This board is atypical in that we plan ahead and LBOM, so most of us don't need any more lessons on saving for the future. But I do believe that some of us (myself included) have the potential to sacrifice too much of the present.

And I was in the same emotional place as GoodSense's year-ago-state until recently. ER is going to be so awesome, that it's sometimes depressing to think that I won't be there any time soon. But I believe you need to get yourself to that mental place where you can be truly emotionally comfortable with the fact that the future will take care of itself and you've got to enjoy the present.

And even though I mentioned money, it isn't even really about spending more money. In my case, I have been reining in the spending probably a bit too much. But even without increasing discretional spending, I had an unhealthy mental attitude towards money. Unexpected expenses (health, car, house fixes) have made me angry in the past, probably because I could feel my FIRE date slipping by a day or two or ten. Which is kind of nutso when you've got at least 2500 working days to go. And I'm going to have those types of expenses regardless, but if I just accept them for what they are and not get upset with them, then I'm happier right there.

If you are happy with your life, then it doesn't matter so much when you retire. If you're a Young Dreamer but years and years away from ER regardless of what you do, work on making yourself happy first.
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Old 09-12-2008, 09:44 AM   #30
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Exactly. I do think that I've been "mindlessly pursuing" FIRE. My main point is that I'd kind of lost the forest while looking at the trees. The big picture is enjoying life. This board is atypical in that we plan ahead and LBOM, so most of us don't need any more lessons on saving for the future. But I do believe that some of us (myself included) have the potential to sacrifice too much of the present.

And I was in the same emotional place as GoodSense's year-ago-state until recently. ER is going to be so awesome, that it's sometimes depressing to think that I won't be there any time soon. But I believe you need to get yourself to that mental place where you can be truly emotionally comfortable with the fact that the future will take care of itself and you've got to enjoy the present.

And even though I mentioned money, it isn't even really about spending more money. In my case, I have been reining in the spending probably a bit too much. But even without increasing discretional spending, I had an unhealthy mental attitude towards money. Unexpected expenses (health, car, house fixes) have made me angry in the past, probably because I could feel my FIRE date slipping by a day or two or ten. Which is kind of nutso when you've got at least 2500 working days to go. And I'm going to have those types of expenses regardless, but if I just accept them for what they are and not get upset with them, then I'm happier right there.

If you are happy with your life, then it doesn't matter so much when you retire. If you're a Young Dreamer but years and years away from ER regardless of what you do, work on making yourself happy first.




When I was in the military I used to take my leave and travel. In 1989 I was in Belize along the Guatemalan border checking out some Mayan ruins and ran into a retired Canadian reporter. We chatted for a while and I learned he had moved to Belize to live in Belize City (a real hole at the time, poverty, drugs, murder). His story was he had retired and took early CPP (SS) and moved to Belize City and after a year there wanted to live among the Maya along the Guatemalan boarder.

He spent most of his life chasing stories to report, working long hours, and somewhere along the road he forgot to live. He told me he wanted to LIVE out the rest of his life to give it some meaning. He was 61 at the time. I new right there I was on the right track. Balance is the key, live now and for the future at the same time. Life is too short. I decided to live my retirement dreams when I was young and travel to out of the way places before I grew too old to get to them, so I take breaks and use my vacation in blocks to travel a month at a time every couple of years. Had some great adventures that I couldn’t do if I waited until I retired
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:14 AM   #31
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Find the balanced path that works for both goals. Have a reasonable amount for retirement savings on automatic, then just enjoy your life spending the rest of your income. I found that what I liked was not expensive, simply because expensive was unattractive to me.
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:29 AM   #32
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:15 PM   #33
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humph! Who re-hijacked the thread back onto topic?

Try green tea with a bit of ginger - powdered or real, depending what you have around. A couple of cloves also can be good.

It tastes good, and will not have you singing 'green, green, green, the grass is green' as you drink your tea.

ta,
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:19 PM   #34
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humph! Who re-hijacked the thread back onto topic?
Oops, that was me. Guilty as charged.

I like green tea also. Also like to put in dried rose and fresh mint leaves. My other favorite is Gao Shan (High Mountain) Tea from Taiwan. The fragrance is divine. Authoritea.: Seven Cups Alishan Gao Shan Cha (High Mountain)
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Old 09-12-2008, 06:02 PM   #35
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I think I'm in the same camp. FI and the ability to FIRE is my goal. Not that I will necessarily FIRE. As things look now, FIRE is 14 years off and a lot can change in 14 years (not the least of which is my federal pension- will it still be there?).
Exactly the conclusion I have come to. Based on 4% SWR, we reached FI a few years ago but I'm only 54 and while work is not as exciting/challenging as it once was, I don't want to retire quite yet. I'd rather build a bigger nest egg and enjoy a better life NOW while still working, no downside for me. If 'quality of work life' ever goes pear shaped, I now have the freedom/option to just retire. That's a great feeling!

I was thrilled with this forum at first. Then I started to see too many people from the 'ALL work is evil, I can't wait FIRE' camp and I considered dropping off this forum altogether, too negative and too much focus on RE. But now I've found a middle ground here...

And Yogi Chai Green is my favorite tea...
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Old 09-12-2008, 06:10 PM   #36
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And here I just don't like tea at all...
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Old 09-12-2008, 06:19 PM   #37
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Exactly the conclusion I have come to. Based on 4% SWR, we reached FI a few years ago but I'm only 54 and while work is not as exciting/challenging as it once was, I don't want to retire quite yet. I'd rather build a bigger nest egg and enjoy a better life NOW while still working, no downside for me. If 'quality of work life' ever goes pear shaped, I now have the freedom/option to just retire. That's a great feeling!

I was thrilled with this forum at first. Then I started to see too many people from the 'ALL work is evil, I can't wait FIRE' camp and I considered dropping off this forum altogether, too negative and too much focus on RE. But now I've found a middle ground here...

And Yogi Chai Green is my favorite tea...
I agree with you that all work isn't evil. And FI is the point at which I changed my attitude, although I continued to work for a couple more years. I was hoping that during ER I might find that thing that I love to do so much that I wouldn't care if I made money. This, of course, is followed by the money pouring in. At least according to the self-help books.

What I've discovered so far (2 years) is that I'm very happy not working. But I'm 52, and have time to change my mind. I'm all for live and let live. I'm going to do what I want, and so can anybody else. At least, after they reach FI.
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Old 09-14-2008, 12:05 PM   #38
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I've been finding, though, that too much emphasis on achieving FIRE is unhealthy. My FIRE date is at least 10 years off, and that would involve everything going really right.

...

Focusing too much on FIRE has involved sweating the small stuff too much.

...

Deferring gratification goes along with saving, but I'm finding that it is stupid to go through a decade with the outlook of "yeah, I'm unhappy now, but when I ER in 10 years I'll be loving life." Start loving life now and let FIRE take care of itself.

...

Between no longer "racing" to get to ER and just deciding to have a more positive outlook while at work, I'm feeling happier -- so I'm achieving my life's goal.
Kronk, I can identify with much of what you say in your post. We hope to semi-retire in about 5 years, but like you said, you just don't know exactly how life will pan out. We've decided to loosen the purse-strings a little and live and enjoy a bit more - specifically by going on long weekend vacations more often to do some of the travel we long to do. We are also making more of an effort to plan out vacations a year in advance to go to some of the places we've had on our "list" for a while.

I just read an interesting quote by Stephen Leacock that emphasizes not missing the present while dreaming/planning for the future:

"The child says, 'When I am a big boy.' But what is that? The big boy says, 'When I grow up.' And then, grown up, he says, 'When I get married.' But to be married, what is that after all? The thought changes to 'When I am able to retire.' And then, when retirement comes, he looks back over the landscape traversed; a cold wind seems to sweep over it; somehow he has missed it all, and it is gone. Life, we learn too late, is in the living, in the tissue of every day and hour."

As a "Young Dreamer" I'm realizing that while it's ok to dream, I have to wake up and enjoy the day before me before it slips by and is gone.
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Old 09-14-2008, 12:31 PM   #39
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Kronk, I can identify with much of what you say in your post. We hope to semi-retire in about 5 years, but like you said, you just don't know exactly how life will pan out. We've decided to loosen the purse-strings a little and live and enjoy a bit more - specifically by going on long weekend vacations more often to do some of the travel we long to do. We are also making more of an effort to plan out vacations a year in advance to go to some of the places we've had on our "list" for a while.

I just read an interesting quote by Stephen Leacock that emphasizes not missing the present while dreaming/planning for the future:

"The child says, 'When I am a big boy.' But what is that? The big boy says, 'When I grow up.' And then, grown up, he says, 'When I get married.' But to be married, what is that after all? The thought changes to 'When I am able to retire.' And then, when retirement comes, he looks back over the landscape traversed; a cold wind seems to sweep over it; somehow he has missed it all, and it is gone. Life, we learn too late, is in the living, in the tissue of every day and hour."

As a "Young Dreamer" I'm realizing that while it's ok to dream, I have to wake up and enjoy the day before me before it slips by and is gone.
Nice post Simple Girl.
Most of my life I lived in the future and it stole the present. It is not easy to change a lifelong characteristic.
Like many men I can be goal driven. The problem is when you attain your goal; do you know what to do with it? Have you ever heard the saying "Like a dog chasing a car." i.e. What is the dog going to do once it caught the car?
We are not taught "Life ... is in the living, in the tissue of every day and hour." We are taught to work towards the future.

Sometimes when I look back at certain aspects of my life; I see I had what I wanted. I didn't know it at the time and I didn't know what to do with it, so I lost it.

So you have what you need now to be happy. The question is do you see it, take advantage of it and appreciate it.

The goal is not ER but happiness.
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Old 09-14-2008, 12:47 PM   #40
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I completely agree about making the most of your life, that's why I hate spending money when I don't think it is worth the amount of work I had to put in to earn that money.

Life should be enjoyed outside the confines of work or at least work should only be one part of a person's life rather than something that takes up an overwhelming portion of their time.

Work is a necessary part of life though, it is simply not possible to survive without doing at least some. So, the best way to go about it is to try and make it as short as possible or hope that one of your passions becomes profitable.

For me, I remember being pretty unhappy as a child, it wasn't until I had both independence and time to enjoy that independence that I was able to fully enjoy my life. I definitely didn't want to have to work, but, I knew there was no option for not working, so as soon as I gained independence I also started to start seriously working, but not anywhere near the degree I do now, it was more like part-time work at the time.

I think work is a lot easier to handle when you can do it part-time rather than full time, I envy those who have that option. I am working hard to make sure I have that same option at as early an age as possible. The old saying goes "time is greater than money" however, it forgets to mention, money can buy time (note I say can, it requires working and saving seriously).

As mentioned, people usually think in terms of what is going to make me happy now? Or, maybe they will take a step further and go, what goal can I set to make things "better"? They rarely setup a plan for their lives so that they can enjoy each phase. Goals are just a means to the end (of happiness) and should never be considered the end. The pursuit of happiness is an inalienable right, yet, people seem to forget to make use of that right.
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