Finance car advice - ghetto fabulous style

[cj]

CJ:

When you say - I'll see how long it lasts, exactly what does that mean?  Does it mean until the engine or transmission needs rebuiding ? I suspect that what it really means is until you feel like having a better car.

I guess that means until it costs more to fix the thing than it's worth, or until I no longer think I can depend on it to get me where I want to go every day...  So far I've only had to do the routine maintenance. 

But you are right about the "until you feel like having a better car" - it's very tempting to want to get something newer and more fun!  Every now and then I see a car and "wish" I had that.  But the feeling eventually passes, until I see yet another car I like.  <sigh!>

I think that what will eventually happen is that my husband will "have to have" the pickup truck of his dreams, and I will inherit his 2001 RAV.  I have also said that maybe my Honda will be my nephew's first car.  He just turned 12.   


CJ

 

[SteveR]

Where you live has a lot to do with how long you can will last too. If you are in the snow belt, your car may rust away long before the engine and drive train fail. The same would be true near the ocean. Salt is a nasty thing on metal over an extended period of time. Also, heat, cold, UV rays, hail, rain, etc. all have an effect on the car and the mechanical, metal, electrical, rubber and plastic parts over time.

Also, the days of the shade tree mechanic are pretty much gone. Unless you have some pretty expensive gear to "talk" to your car and make the hundreds of adjustments to the air polution control systems and fuel injection systems, you are going to have to take it some where for this kind of work.

A good reliable car in this part of the country is a requirement. 4X4 is more than a gizmo; it is required where I go.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Salt, Snow - what's that ?  Don't they make those Mexican Marguarita cocktails with that ?

OK here in SoCal snow and salt are not a problem. Cars do not rust and last forever as long as they are maintained. There are lots of vintage Mustangs and Camaros etc still running around here in SoCal working as daily drivers. They have become hip to drive again. Personally I think the sixties car craze is all in people's minds. These cars handle poorly and suck down the gas - but what do I know.

You have a point about sensors and computers on newer cars. However, being a shade tree mechanic myself, I have to disagree with you about their days being gone. There are lots of common repairs on new cars like water pumps, alternators, suspension, brakes etc etc that your average Joe could handle. Sure, engine driveability diagnosis is a job left for the pros - which I indeed leave to them. If you choose to pay someone else to do those repairs to keep Betsy running then that's your choice.

My last dealings with the service department at the dealer occurred a couple of years ago and left me thinking that I won't be back soon. The heater blower fan quit on my Buick that I used to have. so I made the mistake of taking it to the dealer as I didn't feel like pulling the dash to get to it. I thought maybe an hours labor plus $40 for the part would do it - maybe. So I give it to the service advisor and tell him the blower fan motor needs to be replaced. They then charged me an hours labor for "diagnosis" at $82.50/hour. The genuine GM part retailed at $125 (avilable after market at around $20) and they charged me a few more hours for installation. The total was way over $400 and I felt like a real sucker. I won't be back there anytime soon. 

If people are paying rates like that to get their cars fixed then I can understand why people buy new cars all the time. The relative economics of new cars versus very high dealer repair costs make flipping new cars an attractive proposition.

 

[Andre1969]

One reason a lot of those old cars handled so poorly was because the wheels and tires were often horribly inadequate and under-sized. I had a '69 Dodge Dart GT that I bought in 1989. It had those old 14" bias-ply tires on it, which was actually an upgrade...I think the cheapest Darts were still running 13" wheels back then! Anyway, I changed those old bias-plys for some decent 205/70/R-14 tires. Made a world of difference, and probably brought the handling up close to what a comparably-sized 1989 car would've been. Sure, the steering gave you no response and was overboosted, and the non-power 4-wheel drum brakes made sure that your leg muscles got a good workout, but it wasn't a bad driving car.

Some of those older cars are actually more comfortable for taller drivers, too. Most modern cars don't fit well with me because the dead pedals are often poorly placed and take up too much legroom, and the seats usually don't give me good thigh or back support, and often I find myself looking down at the rear-view mirror, instead of straight ahead at it or even slightly up at it.

 

[bruce1]

Try the dart with manual steering, a four speed and air shocks with the 205/70/R-14 tires. Lots of road feel. Mine was a 76 Duster though


Bruce

 

[Andre1969]

Bruce, I can go one better on that (or worse, depending on your perspective )...after my '69 Dart got totaled I bought a '68 Dart 270. This one had a 318 V-8, whereas the '69 just had a slant six. It had power steering, but the pump had failed! So I had the ratio of power steering (something like 3.5 turns lock-to-lock, where I think manual is usually 4 or more), and the weight of a V-8 on the front wheels, but nothing but my own two arms to maneuver that sucker. Now that I think about it, I had some pretty nice triceps back then!

Actually, the car wasn't too bad to drive, but in tight situations such as parking, especially parallel parking, it could be rough. Or getting into the car after a good workout at the gym. I remember one of my friends took his driving test in it, failed almost immediately, and the cop that went out on the course with him had to drive it all the way through the course to get back, and he wasn't too happy about it. My buddy said he was cursing the car under his breath the whole way through!

Road feel actually seemed pretty good in that car...until I finally got the power steering fixed. Another thing that was kind of odd was that, even though it had drum brakes all around, it was almost impossible to lock them up on that car. I swear I can lock up the 4-wheel discs on my Intrepid more easily.

 

[Michael Moore]

I have a 2000 Ford Focus ZX3 (manual 5 speed) that I bought new. It has just under 70K miles now and gets a pretty steady 30mpg on the highway. It was my first ever new car which I bought because of a 50 mile/day commute. I've got zero complaints about it. I think it was car of the year in its class for several years, both in the US and in Europe.

cheers,
Michael

 

[johnlw]

I just sold a 96 Camry that had 160,000 miles on it for $3,000.

I just bought a 2001 Camry with 79,000 miles on it for $8,350. I bought it from a private owner who had all his maintenance records showing oil changes and any repairs that were performed.

It's for my daughter to drive back and forth to school, so I wanted something with fewer miles on it.

John

 

[Nords]

I just bought a 2001 Camry with 79,000 miles on it for $8,350.  I bought it from a private owner who had all his maintenance records showing oil changes and any repairs that were performed.

Ya gotta love those sellers. Finding just one of them makes the entire used-car experience so gratifying.

 

[thefed]

1996-1999 Nissan MAxima

Thsoe motors were the #1 ranked motor (i forget by who, but whoever does the rankings) for 10 years straight!

Theyre nearly bulletproof. The trannies arent so great, but average-they'll last 150k. I'd say MOSt of these motors WILL hit 250k with reasonable maintainence...ive seen ti first hand

a 1999 max with 70-80k will run you maybe 8-9k fully loaded.

 

[laurence]

Hey, I stumbled across a car I really like, the Mazda 3. A coworker bought one a year ago and loves it, I love the look of it, and it's been rated a top ten most reliable car. Anyone have feedback on that car?

 

[greg]

Hey, I stumbled across a car I really like, the Mazda 3. A coworker bought one a year ago and loves it, I love the look of it, and it's been rated a top ten most reliable car. Anyone have feedback on that car?

Laurence: Martha's sister in LA bought one a couple years ago and is very happy with it. She drives like a maniac, misses most some mainenance items, and abuses things so bad that I can barely stand being around her when she is using anything mechanical. The car has held up beautifully. She once was driving from Chicago to LA many years ago and stopped to see us. I asked when was the last time she changed the oil. Got some weird look and a comment like "Why, I just add new as it's needed?" The worst black gunk I ever saw came out. I was going to drive it around the block and change it again but thought "The car may not make it if the oil is too clean." An old Ford. I had a 323 years ago. Excellent car at a good price. Oh, and a Mazda truck that was also very good.
Change the oil and the timing belt at 60000 miles were the only maintenance items on any of them.

--Greg

 

[MasterBlaster]

Is your definition of a great car one that won't die when it's abused ?

While the Mazda 3 may be a great car. I have a real problem with spending $15-20k on a new car and then not ever changing the oil.

If you are of the maintenance challenged variety then I suggest you find a used car to abuse. Maybe a 5-year old car for around $5-7k that has been taken care of would fit the bill.

Then when the car has it's inevitable problems at least you could walk away from it without too much pain.

 

[greg]

Is your definition of a great car one that won't die when it's abused ?

MasterBlaster: No! But one that is well engineered will probably take quite a bit of abuse. That was the point of my comment. I'm not recommending abuse.

--Greg

 

[Martha]

I'm not recommending abuse.

But Vladimir, I thought you liked to be abused.

Lyudmila

 

[brewer12345]

Hey, I stumbled across a car I really like, the Mazda 3.  A coworker bought one a year ago and loves it, I love the look of it, and it's been rated a top ten most reliable car.  Anyone have feedback on that car?

I hear good things, but they are pretty small.

 

[MasterBlaster]

If I had the guts I'd do a scientific test. I'd buy a new car and never change the oil or anything else. I'd add oil when it needed it but never change it. Then I'd see how long the engine would last. At $30/change with changes every 3k miles then I'd save around $1000/100k miles. If the engine goes 200k miles then I'd save $2000 or about enough to have a rebuilt engine installed. However I somehow don't think that the engine would get that far.

But I don't need to do this myself as my neighbor has an old Volvo that, as far as I could tell had never had the coolant changed or anything else done to it. This car was green I believe but was hard to tell as a protective coating of dirt obscurred the truth. Well the coolant had gone way past the watery green stage to the rusting badly stage. The coolant was real thick looked like mud or gravy. The engine oil was similar but was even thicker and quite a bit darker in color. After a hose burst and sprayed "gravy" all over the engine compartment it stained everything. That rust stuff never came off and the stain in the engine compartment was permanent. But that kinda went with the cars' style that had developed over the years.

But it still runs.  Those Volvos must be great cars.

 

[johnlw]

Not that I would subscribe to this philosophy, but I have a friend who says that he never changes the oil in his vehicles. He claims it's a racket.

John

 

[greg]

But Vladimir, I thought you liked to be abused.

Lyudmila

Lyudmila: NO! I like marching around naked--with my epaulets bouncing in the breeze. 8)

--Vladimer

 

[bow-tie]

Lyudmila:  NO!  I like marching around naked--with my epaulets bouncing in the breeze. 8)  --Vladimer

In Minnesota!?!?!  They'll freeze together!  Now THAT would be a cold war...

 

[REWahoo]

For your entertainment and enjoyment, the FIRE Forum brings you the adventures of Lyudmila, --Vladimer, and brewer...

But Vladimir, I thought you liked to be abused.

Lyudmila

Lyudmila: NO! I like marching around naked--with my epaulets bouncing in the breeze. 8)

--Vladimer

I hear good things, but they are pretty small.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Getting back to the topic of the thread...

I've been toying with the idea of getting a new car for the past couple of years, but the sticker shock of both new and used cars is somewhat of a disincentive to buy anything.  A few years ago, you could get a 3-year old Honda Accord with ~35k miles for $10,000.  These days, I'm finding that one would cost ~$13,000, and that's with 40k+ miles.  I don't know about you, but why buy a 3-year old Accord at that price with those kind of miles when a new one is a few thousand more?  This is an especially good question since the expensive maintenance tasks begin to mount at 60k miles (e.g., timing belt for $500+, new brakes $300+, etc...)  It's even worse with BMWs, Mercedes, and lower-end Lexuses (Lexi?)

The foregoing is a testament to Hondas holding their value, but I'm not concerned about "holding value" when I'm the one shelling out the money to buy one.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Some people have, like you, noticed that late model used Japanese cars are no bargain. Therefore some advise against them. Others have noticed how American iron drops like a rock the fiirst few years.

Therefore, in my opinion Japanese cars have their best value bought new and American cars have their best value bought one to 3 years old.

Out in my neck of the woods the volume dealer is selling base Camry's for $16k and LE Camrys for $16.6k. If Camrys sell used for what Accords do then I calculate that these cars only drop around 7 percent a year. That may be pretty hard to beat.

 

[brewer12345]

Getting back to the topic of the thread...

I've been toying with the idea of getting a new car for the past couple of years, but the sticker shock of both new and used cars is somewhat of a disincentive to buy anything.  A few years ago, you could get a 3-year old Honda Accord with ~35k miles for $10,000.  These days, I'm finding that one would cost ~$13,000, and that's with 40k+ miles.  I don't know about you, but why buy a 3-year old Accord at that price with those kind of miles when a new one is a few thousand more?  This is an especially good question since the expensive maintenance tasks begin to mount at 60k miles (e.g., timing belt for $500+, new brakes $300+, etc...)  It's even worse with BMWs, Mercedes, and lower-end Lexuses (Lexi?)

The foregoing is a testament to Hondas holding their value, but I'm not concerned about "holding value" when I'm the one shelling out the money to buy one.

That's exactly why I didn't buy my subaru used (or the honda, either). Ya gotta be nuts to buy a new Merkin car, though.

 

[bow-tie]

We bought a used '98 Bonnie in 2001 with 45k on it.  Currently at 130k, we have had to replace the intake on it twice (achilles heel of that generation 3800).  Other than that, very little out-of-ordinary maintenance.

Have had numerous people complement the interior and ride (it's an SLE - leather, bucket seats) and I love the way it rides and drives.  Runs like a sewing machine, too.

When the time comes to buy another car, I'll likely look for another GM with the 3800.  There's a boatload of them.