Financial Goals & Spouse

[SumDay]

We've been married almost 40 years, and DH still refuses to balance HIS checking account. Early on, he also resented me controlling the purse strings. I sat him down on several occasions and showed him all the things that are involved with purse strings: preparing taxes, contributing to our 401(k)'s, selecting your investments, remembering to pay property taxes annually, gift giving, etc. He now actually appreciates that I do EVERYTHING with our finances. He gets a mutually agreed upon dollar amount every month, and if he wants to waste any of it on overdraft fees, that's his prerogative. He also has a credit card in his name only and that gets paid out of his funds.

He just doesn't care like I do and after I finally accepted that, things were much easier. Good luck to you. Lots of good advice in your many answers.

 

[Chris918]

Yeah we are going to talk this afternoon when I get off of work. I want her to be happy. I want to be happy too. I suppose I'll be happy with an agreement as long as our budget still allows to saving, investing, and preparing for early retirement.

 

[Aerides]

Yeah we are going to talk this afternoon when I get off of work. I want her to be happy. I want to be happy too. I suppose I'll be happy with an agreement as long as our budget still allows to saving, investing, and preparing for early retirement.

Listen more than talk
Don't defend or seek to justify how you got here
Don't compare your spending with hers

 

[gwraigty]

Thanks for your response. As I've acknowledged I know that this has gone a bit far. I don't want to control all of the finances. I wish my wife would pay toward the bills and then save, invest, or spend the remainder in ways she deemed appropriate. That's what I want. However, in the past she put us in financial jeopardy due to her spending habits and consistent overdrafting. I don't want to manage all of it, but since we are married it would be devastating if she didn't save or invest anything. I know that's unlikely, but her spending habits show that investing for the future isn't a priority for her. Of course that worries me. We plan to talk and I hope that she will open up and explain what we need to do to be on the same page.

I stand by what I've already said, but as you've posted more info, let me condense my feelings in this post.

You have valid concern for your future together. You had enough warning of how she was with money before you married her. Now you expect/hope her to change. I hope you can make some headway, but I'm not sure how realistic that is. You marry for who the person is, not who you hope they will become.

I can't relate to her because I'm not wired to spend money frivolously. Even when I worked, and needed work clothes, and wore makeup, and got a perm, none of that needed doing every month!

And if I ran out of money and had none left to spend the rest of the month, every single month, I'd be proactive in looking for a solution, starting with some intense self-examination.

Even so, putting her on an allowance with her own money that's she's working for seems wrong. Although I understand why you're doing it. I wouldn't tolerate it myself, but then again, I wouldn't put my husband in the position where he felt he had to do that.

If you can trust her to spend only the rest of her disposable income after household expenses, then try letting her do that. If she decides not to contribute anything at all to her Roth, then so be it. Sit down with her and compare your Roth balances once a year. Maybe it'll sink in over time.

I'm not a proponent of his & her money. But in your case, maybe it's best. You need to protect yourself.

 

[ivinsfan]

Yeah we are going to talk this afternoon when I get off of work. I want her to be happy. I want to be happy too. I suppose I'll be happy with an agreement as long as our budget still allows to saving, investing, and preparing for early retirement.

You guys apparently define "happy" differently.... Your DW "supposed" she would be happy with the allowance arrangement but she isn't. So perhaps you both won't end up "happy" but somewhere in a middle ground.

 

[ivinsfan]

I stand by what I've already said, but as you've posted more info, let me condense my feelings in this post.

You have valid concern for your future together. You had enough warning of how she was with money before you married her. Now you expect/hope her to change. I hope you can make some headway, but I'm not sure how realistic that is. You marry for who the person is, not who you hope they will become.

I can't relate to her because I'm not wired to spend money frivolously. Even when I worked, and needed work clothes, and wore makeup, and got a perm, none of that needed doing every month!

And if I ran out of money and had none left to spend the rest of the month, every single month, I'd be proactive in looking for a solution, starting with some intense self-examination.

Even so, putting her on an allowance with her own money that's she's working for seems wrong. Although I understand why you're doing it. I wouldn't tolerate it myself, but then again, I wouldn't put my husband in the position where he felt he had to do that.

If you can trust her to spend only the rest of her disposable income after household expenses, then try letting her do that. If she decides not to contribute anything at all to her Roth, then so be it. Sit down with her and compare your Roth balances once a year. Maybe it'll sink in over time.

I'm not a proponent of his & her money. But in your case, maybe it's best. You need to protect yourself.

To be fair he never said she did that stuff every month. In fact he mentioned her going thru a 100 bucks in the first few days of the month. You cannot cut and color your hair, buy makeup and perhaps some new clothes with a 100 bucks a month. If you wanted a cut/color/tip for your hair and only had a 100 bucks a months you'd have nothing left for anything else.

He also said he spends almost no personal money whatsoever, so the disconnect is large. I suspect the truth is somewhere between the two...

Also never said his spouse wanted to ER.

 

[Bestwifeever]

It doesn’t sound like she has changed since you met her—did you think she would? At any rate, she is still the woman you fell in love with (and vice versa). Maybe her taking good care of herself was appealing to you three years ago when you started your relationship? Maybe your and her budget needs to be more realistic on both sides? Good luck with your conversation to ight.

 

[gwraigty]

To be fair he never said she did that stuff every month. In fact he mentioned her going thru a 100 bucks in the first few days of the month. You cannot cut and color your hair, buy makeup and perhaps some new clothes with a 100 bucks a month. If you wanted a cut/color/tip for your hair and only had a 100 bucks a months you'd have nothing left for anything else.

He also said he spends almost no personal money whatsoever, so the disconnect is large. I suspect the truth is somewhere between the two...

Also never said his spouse wanted to ER.

He said "constantly" and "constant". Obviously, she's not concerned about retirement at all, early or otherwise.

Granted, we're only getting one side of the story here. The picture OP paints is of a wife who wants to just spend her money as she pleases and let him use his money to pay all the household bills. This was going on before they were married. He has to put her on an allowance, or else none of her paycheck would be available for household expenses.

Unless he's exaggerating.

 

[jIMOh]

Hello all,

First of all let me preface this by saying I'm not entirely sure where this topic should go. If it would be better suited elsewhere please let me know or if this isn't even the place for this kind of question. That being said I'll begin.

My wife and I have been married for 1 year and together for 8. We bought our house 2 and a half years ago. I was always the more financially stable of the two of us. When we had an apartment, my now wife overdrafted several times due to clothes shopping, eating out, etc. She didn't keep track of her money. She didn't record anything. I understood how dangerous this was to our household and so I intervened. I explained how saving, investing, and living below our means would provide the best quality life for us. She agreed to let me manage all of our finances and since then money has never been a problem.

Fast forward to today. While she doesn't say it, I know my wife resents me to an extent since I have control of our finances and she does not. I personally spend very little and allocate fun/spending money to each of us after we have paid our bills, saved, and invested. It is not common for her to go through her portion in just the first few days of the month.

Now I certainly don't want my wife resenting me. Of course she makes money and provides for the household as well. I just invest and save on her behalf so that she doesn't spend it all. That being said, is that my responsibility? Would it be better if I just let her have whatever money she would have if I weren't managing her finances? I know that would make her happier, but I know that she is unlikely to invest or save much of it and that can impact me negatively since we're married.

Does anyone have any advice? Man this sounds like a relationship help question, but while I want her to be able to have fun and spend I think financial stability and planning for retirement have to come first. What should I do?

That sounds like my first marriage, which ended in divorce
that sounds like my second marriage, which will also end in divorce

If the two people don't see money the same, I think the two of you should get a 3rd party to intervene.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Here a cut and color is 125 before tip. Fun money should be for eating out and events. Not hair, makeup and clothes. My ex was controlling in many ways including money and I eventually divorced him. My husband and I now agree to how much fun money we get each month and it’s for fun only. It’s not for necessities.

 

[Moemg]

She needs a decent allowance and $100 is not going to cut it . I would up the allowance to at least $250 or $300 .Otherwise she will grow to resent you and figure out she is better on her own.

 

[Chris918]

He said "constantly" and "constant". Obviously, she's not concerned about retirement at all, early or otherwise.

Granted, we're only getting one side of the story here. The picture OP paints is of a wife who wants to just spend her money as she pleases and let him use his money to pay all the household bills. This was going on before they were married. He has to put her on an allowance, or else none of her paycheck would be available for household expenses.

Unless he's exaggerating.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that my wife is not good with money. She admits this and isn't in any kind of denial. She spends her money as she pleases and when it runs out early in the month expects more despite us both having fun money spending limits that apply to both of us. When she spends what she has, other things often come up and she comes to me wanting more money despite going through what our budget allowed for.

It's not just my money used to pay the bills. Both of our incomes are used to pay the bills and invest. She just normally burns through her extra money fairly quickly and then wants more and is upset when she can't always get it because our budget is designed so every dollar has a job. But yes the reason that we ultimately decided that I would handle the finances is because she had a terrible relationship with money and blew through it in a way that negatively impacted our ability to make our financial obligations.

Does she need more money per month? I would say yes, however I believe that once that money is gone she should consider why she ran out that fast and adjust for next month. Of course this is based on the premise that we agree to a good amount of spending money for each of us that is even and fair based on our needs.

 

[Aerides]

There's no nice way to say this, but your tone comes off as if you have no respect for your wife, and as if you think she's a child with money.

Per your other post, you're both 27, you have no debt besides a modest mortgage, and you both max your 401ks and do some Roths, and paid of your cars together.

You control all the money including HER income. This might be fine if you said she bounced 3 checks last month, but you bought a house together 2 years ago and got married. You have a recipe to be divorced by 30 unless you look at this problem from what you can do to change, not how you can change her.

Maybe don't talk to her tonight. I don't think you're ready to do so without doing more damage.

 

[ivinsfan]

There's no nice way to say this, but your tone comes off as if you have no respect for your wife, and as if you think she's a child with money.

Per your other post, you're both 27, you have no debt besides a modest mortgage, and you both max your 401ks and do some Roths, and paid of your cars together.

You control all the money including HER income. This might be fine if you said she bounced 3 checks last month, but you bought a house together 2 years ago and got married. You have a recipe to be divorced by 30 unless you look at this problem from what you can do to change, not how you can change her.

Maybe don't talk to her tonight. I don't think you're ready to do so without doing more damage.

+1000 on the not talking tonight..it's the 13th of the month I'd wait until the last week of Aug and then talk about some changes for next month. The OP keeps trying to explain and justify why his way is the better way and her way is the wrong way. If your DW would really let the house payment bounce so she could color her hair, you have bigger problems then we can help you with.

 

[MissMolly]

There's no nice way to say this, but your tone comes off as if you have no respect for your wife, and as if you think she's a child with money.

Per your other post, you're both 27, you have no debt besides a modest mortgage, and you both max your 401ks and do some Roths, and paid of your cars together.

You control all the money including HER income. This might be fine if you said she bounced 3 checks last month, but you bought a house together 2 years ago and got married. You have a recipe to be divorced by 30 unless you look at this problem from what you can do to change, not how you can change her.

Maybe don't talk to her tonight. I don't think you're ready to do so without doing more damage.

+1 I would not tolerate that attitude from my husband about anything.

 

[Chris918]

There's no nice way to say this, but your tone comes off as if you have no respect for your wife, and as if you think she's a child with money.

Per your other post, you're both 27, you have no debt besides a modest mortgage, and you both max your 401ks and do some Roths, and paid of your cars together.

You control all the money including HER income. This might be fine if you said she bounced 3 checks last month, but you bought a house together 2 years ago and got married. You have a recipe to be divorced by 30 unless you look at this problem from what you can do to change, not how you can change her.

Maybe don't talk to her tonight. I don't think you're ready to do so without doing more damage.

I recognize that I have faults in this situation. And it's true that I was very worried in the beginning based on the over drafting. Yes you do recall correctly that we are both around 27. Our only debt is the mortgage. To my knowledge she doesn't put any extra toward her 401k and only has the minimum requirement. With mine I am working toward building it by increasing my contribution based on my annual raise each year. Otherwise you are spot on.

I don't want to hurt my wife and I do love her very much. I want to provide us the greatest future that I can. Sadly I know that I've gone too far. I didn't need people to tell me that. I already knew and I was already seeing the signs that I had gone too far. Now I'm looking for a solution that will be good for both of us.

I tend to get set on a particular goal and work my heart out until that goal is accomplished. That's why I'm having trouble. Having the assets to retire early is not something that can be accomplished in a day. All I want is to make sure we can both retire happy and healthy. I want a plan that is achievable and as long we stick to that plan we'll make it. As long as that happens my goal has been met. I'm probably pushing so hard for this goal that I haven't even considered that my wife may not be fully onboard. She said she was but we all know it goes deeper than that.

Thanks again for your advice.

 

[ivinsfan]

I recognize that I have faults in this situation. And it's true that I was very worried in the beginning based on the over drafting. Yes you do recall correctly that we are both around 27. Our only debt is the mortgage. To my knowledge she doesn't put any extra toward her 401k and only has the minimum requirement. With mine I am working toward building it by increasing my contribution based on my annual raise each year. Otherwise you are spot on.

I don't want to hurt my wife and I do love her very much. I want to provide us the greatest future that I can. Sadly I know that I've gone too far. I didn't need people to tell me that. I already knew and I was already seeing the signs that I had gone too far. Now I'm looking for a solution that will be good for both of us.

I tend to get set on a particular goal and work my heart out until that goal is accomplished. That's why I'm having trouble. Having the assets to retire early is not something that can be accomplished in a day. All I want is to make sure we can both retire happy and healthy. I want a plan that is achievable and as long we stick to that plan we'll make it. As long as that happens my goal has been met. I'm probably pushing so hard for this goal that I haven't even considered that my wife may not be fully onboard. She said she was but we all know it goes deeper than that.

Thanks again for your advice.

That's a sincere post and good for you. So you are new to the board but I will tell you that a great majority of answers here come from females, most of you have been or are married. Just read them and think about them. You are 27 and are thinking about ER, miles ahead of most people. Just take your foot off the gas a little and listen.

 

[Chris918]

That's a sincere post and good for you. So you are new to the board but I will tell you that a great majority of answers here come from females, most of you have been or are married. Just read them and think about them. You are 27 and are thinking about ER, miles ahead of most people. Just take your foot off the gas a little and listen.

Thank you I will.

 

[ocean view]

You’ve mentioned setting a budget, but do you ever sit down with DW and review actual past expenses? And I mean this to include the detail of all of the slush fund spending as well. When we were trying to cut expenses, we found it helpful to do this. To see that the total cost of groceries for the month was $600, which didn’t include the $400 spent on restaurants can be eye opening. Or the total spent on clothes and personal grooming. Then look at those totals and discuss if you both feel the cost was worth the benefit. Maybe she only sees it as $20 here, $50 there and doesn’t see the big picture?

You could also calculate the percentage spent in each budget category compared to your gross income.

In the end, your wife needs to buy-in to the long term goal and how that becomes reality.

 

[nhcycling]

Most millennial female professionals I know spend $ every month on hair, nails, makeup along with clothes. They consider it an essential expense as a working professional as do I. And it’s way more than 100 bucks!

 

[tulak]

Personally, I’d let her manage the money. Let her make the mistakes, fail at times and be helpful as you can, but only in a supportive way.

If she can’t figure it out, then odds are this will be a constant conflict in your relationship.

On a different note, I’d also wait to have kids until you’re both on the same page financially.

 

[Chris918]

Personally, I’d let her manage the money. Let her make the mistakes, fail at times and be helpful as you can, but only in a supportive way.

If she can’t figure it out, then odds are this will be a constant conflict in your relationship.

On a different note, I’d also wait to have kids until you’re both on the same page financially.

I was thinking this may be the best way to move forward. Neither of us want kids.

 

[Golden sunsets]

I invest into a ROTH IRA for her and then I take an additional portion and invest in a brokerage account. The ROTH is for retirement and tax free growth and the brokerage is to live off of once we decide we want to retire early. Both of us get money invested from our checks at work along with a match from our employers. She normally will spend $100 or more within the first few days.

What percentage of your joint gross income are you currently saving/investing?

 

[Klubbie]

I have not read all the replies in this thread, but this is very similar to the situation I had with my wife. We are approaching 4 years of marriage and things are much better than they used to be. I dont think money is an issue with us anymore, but we have our days.

To paint a picture, when we started dating my wife over drew her bank account, couldn't afford her rent one month and had to borrow money from me and her parents one month to make ends meet. She is an RN and at the time making almost 70k per year. I told her that she had to fix her financial problems or we wouldn't last. To her credit she did. They aren't up to my standards, but they are reasonable now, which is why we got married.

In terms of what we did....

When we were dating she asked me to help set up her budget and to analyze her expenses for her. So I did this to help her see where her money was going. She got back on track through this. It sounds like you did something similar.

When we got engaged we combined finances and really started to tackle the debt we had. She brought 17k of credit card debt to the marriage, as well as a car loan of roughly 15k.

When we combined finances it was very much the situation you described. I was just trying to do what's best for out relationship and future, but she felt controlled and resentful. This was made worse because I make almost double what she makes. She felt like she had no authority to have an opinion in our marriage. We had several fights about spending on things like clothes and going over budget.

We made the decision to do premarital counseling before we got married. Money was not the deciding factor in that decision but it was an influence. Counseling helped us learn how the other communicates about money and gave us both a safe environment to share our feelings honestly about this conflict. The reality is that we both had similar goals, but spoke very different languages when it came to money. Counseling helped with this.

Through counseling my wife was able to understand my money language and me hers. We set up a system that helped us track expenses monthly with mint, we meet monthly to go over our finances, and we take a certain amount of money each month that is ours to spend as we wish.

I'd highly recommend the counseling though. It creates a safe environment for both people to talk about their feelings and can help communication. The other stuff can be fixed once the underlying issues are worked on.

 

[Cobra9777]

No advice. I'll just tell my story FWIW...

My wife is a "shopper." No doubt about it. It's almost like her main hobby. She likes nice clothes, including buying stuff for me. And new towels from time to time, when there's absolutely nothing wrong with the old towels. And we're not allowed to visit the grandkids without multiple gifts. You get the idea. It's just what brings her happiness and I'm totally OK with that.

Early on, with two young kids, a mortgage, two car notes, and some CC debt, I had no choice but to reel things in for a while. But things improved. We both worked and made good money. After we maxed out both 401Ks, I let her do whatever she wanted... as long as we had no credit card debt. If we did, then I reeled it in again. I suppose there was a little resentment from time to time. But ya know... that went both ways. And that's a very important point.

Anyway, this went back and forth for a while, mostly in our late 20s and 30s. By 40 or so, our incomes had increased to the point that I never needed to reel her in and we were saving well beyond the two 401K max contributions. We also planned our retirement with that spending built in. So all is good. But even today, every once in a while, I'll say something like, "Guess how much the VISA bill was this month." She says, "I know, I know... I'll pull back."

And that's that.