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Old 11-29-2013, 06:15 PM   #81
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Well, horses for courses. May everyone find what she/he is seeking.

I still think, that if someone can't think of anything besides money to talk about on a date, at least they are boring and at worst they are gold-digging.

I would never feel that I was "wasting time" just hanging out. Talk about goal orientation! No thank you, Madam!

Ha
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:02 PM   #82
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Well, horses for courses. May everyone find what she/he is seeking. I still think, that if someone can't think of anything besides money to talk about on a date, at least they are boring and at worst they are gold-digging. I would never feel that I was "wasting time" just hanging out. Talk about goal orientation! No thank you, Madam! Ha
Six years into a relationship, I feel fortunate that I do not have to be involved in the dating scene. But when I was and if I ever were again, financial compatibility wouldn't be on the immediate docket of my priorities. Of course in some areas of my life I can admit I have stayed quite juvenile and sophomoric so my opinion on this matter probably wouldn't be the best.
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Old 11-29-2013, 10:26 PM   #83
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In The Millionaire Mind, Thomas Stanley has a write up on how to find a financially promising potential mate. He suggests joining a church in a high rent area with an active singles group. It is on page 268 of the book and you can read some of his how to advice on Google books for free. He called it attending "the church of all the available high intellectuals". His advice was to join one or more affinity groups that contain a high concentration of prospects. Volunteering was another type of affinity group he suggested.
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Old 11-29-2013, 10:57 PM   #84
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I was a big brother in the Big Brothers program in Los Angeles for many years. I remember one conversation with a gal who worked there. She mentioned that most of her friends would constantly complain about the available men in LA which she couldn't understand, she was surrounded by genuinely good guys all day.
Find an affinity group (church, environmental, artistic heck, join a bogleheads group if you are looking for the financially oriented) have some fun/do some good things and meet similarly inclined people.
I've been married for 20+ years to an Adventure Girl, who I met on a hike.
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:37 AM   #85
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I've been married for 20+ years to an Adventure Girl, who I met on a hike.
That reminds me that I know a number of people who met their spouses at Sierra Club singles groups.
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:34 PM   #86
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Hmmmmmm. I met my wife in college. She sat next to me in a history class and kept waking me up when I fell asleep, which was pretty much very class. I had figured out that history was something that had already happened and was adequately covered in the textbook, not in class. I was only there because the prof took attendance ��.

Anyway, I got an A in the course, she got a C and we have been happily married nearly 44 years ��.
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:58 AM   #87
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Seriously? That's not been my observation. My observation has been that if women are trying to outshine other women appearance-wise, it's because they've collectively bought into the notion that a woman's worth is defined by whether/how many men are attracted to her. So maybe your belief is true, among women who are competing for male attention. They figure they can't make it on their own - so they spend whatever resources they have on trying to attract men.

The exception would be women whose appearance IS their job, such as actresses or TV news readers. It's entirely possible that women criticize such women's looks more harshly than men do. (And just look at the cost of hair extensions - something I would never have even thought of getting, but these women feel they must look a Certain Way: http://content.usatoday.com/communities/entertainment/post/2010/01/michaele-salahi-gets-hair-extensions/1)

No matter which point of view you take, it costs money, time, and effort to look different from the way one would look if one spent no money and effort. Men often seem not to realize this until the day comes when they are sharing the cost.

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Amethyst...hair straightening and powder and paint and fancy outfits is what women do for women, not because men like it. !
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:59 PM   #88
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Those who only live for the moment can be some of the most fun, beautiful, generous and interesting people you ever met. If you can earn enough not to worry, they can make wonderful partners.
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:47 PM   #89
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Those who only live for the moment can be some of the most fun, beautiful, generous and interesting people you ever met. If you can earn enough not to worry, they can make wonderful partners.
Can't agree more. My younger daughter has this personality and she is the most generous, joyous, sponteneous and delightful person to be around. We are all just different and it can be downright boring to live with someone who counts every penny and plans every move. As long as your SO is willing to work with you, the money issues can be addressed. You don't have to give up on an otherwise wonderful partner.
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Old 12-02-2013, 09:27 AM   #90
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Long-time lurker, first-time poster here. Somehow, through several relationships that weren't quite "it", I've ended up over 30 without getting married in an area where that's not the norm. Over the past year or two, I've gotten into the FIRE thing and LBYM. Changed my priorities and outlook on life quite a bit. I've always been into my career, tend to be ambitious and goal oriented.

When I was young I always thought I would get married and have a family. I grew up in a typical nuclear family. But, now having watched many of my friends' and peers marriages crash and burn and thinking in the big picture terms of FIRE and LBYM, I'm questioning whether marriage is even a good idea.

Part of me holds out hope that it is (because I like being in relationships), but only with the right partner, one who is financially healthy, self-sustaining, also has LBYM and FIRE goals. But, it seems adding those financial criteria on the "must have" list has narrowed the dating pool to an unrealistically/impossibly small size.

For some reason I'm good at finding girls who are financially upside-down. I haven't ever dated a single one that has been in good financial shape, let alone having actual financial goals or plans. Not painting with a wide brush here, this is my experience in the dating world with 25-35 year old women in my area. All have been able to just barely survive, paycheck to paycheck. A couple have seemed like they have their stuff together for a while, but both just had huge consumer debt I didn't find out about for months. I've seen it all, huge credit card debt, living off of alimony, pay day loans, title loans, living on credit or overdraft, living beyond means, near bankruptcy, etc. The worst is that none of them have had the ambition to actually change their situation. None of them have liked or been proud of these situations, but coincidentally, none of them have had the ambition or fortitude to actually take action to really change their situations either. Whatever gets them by. It kind of seems the good ones get snatched up when they are young around here. It seems like there is a bit of entitlement going on around here, like they expect their partner to come along and fix it for them, provide for them, like it's their responsibility.

I'm hesitate to screen girls by financial criteria because finding some who a) I'm attracted to and b) I get along well with is hard enough. Maybe it's the demographics of the area, maybe it's me, I don't know, maybe both. I can find ones I'm attracted to, and like, but they seem to never be career oriented. I have found a few who are ambitious and career-oriented, but in my experience, they tend to be overbearing and domineering, which is not attractive to me (I'm sure they aren't all like that, but it's my experience, in my industry).

I am feeling strongly these days, looking at my life through the lens of FIRE (which is still probably 15 years away for me), that bringing someone into my life who has a negative financial impact (say, brings lots of debt, or has little earning capacity, or doesn't have the ambition to change either or both of those things, or won't ever be able to contribute to retirement), is a bad idea, regardless of how good the relationship is.

Part of me wonders if I'm being stupid about it. It feels like I'm choosing money over love. Say, I find someone who I get along with well, is attractive, and would be a great relationship partner, but is a financial mess. Do I walk away because of money?

In an ideal world, I could have it all: a great relationship partner, who is attractive to me, is smart, and financially going somewhere. But I'm telling you, I haven't found all of those things in one person, and I feel like I have to choose.

It seems like a lot of people on the forum are dealing with FIRE and all of this in marriage-years, after the choice of partner is already made, and you have a stable home life. Your partner is your partner, and you adjust your lifestyle and goals accordingly if you're on a path together. But what if you had to do it all over again?
You can't pick who you fall in love with!

Mike
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:27 AM   #91
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You can't pick who you fall in love with!

Mike
You can, however, decide what to do about it...
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Old 12-02-2013, 02:42 PM   #92
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Could have written this myself 20-30 years ago. You're not choosing money over love. You're looking out for Number One just like everybody else is. Self preservation preempts everything.
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Old 12-02-2013, 04:06 PM   #93
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Congratulations unclemick. A Good Women is a joy to a man.

Get her a Christmas gift at Costco. Perhaps this little ornament: https://www.costco.com/21.37-ctw%2c-....11645562.html
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:22 PM   #94
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Seriously? That's not been my observation. My observation has been that if women are trying to outshine other women appearance-wise, it's because they've collectively bought into the notion that a woman's worth is defined by whether/how many men are attracted to her.
I think it is deeper than that, deeper than buying into or not buying into anything. If women weren't very interested in attracting men, and men in securing women, we would not be here. We are here, so they must be.

People imagine so many things that are not true- like most of our actions depend on conscious cognition.

Ha
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:06 PM   #95
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You can, however, decide what to do about it...
Exactly. Just because you feel a certain way doesn't mean you have to do anything about it.

I've taken the course of inaction for the last 15 years because the potential cons of a relationship seem to outweigh the pros. Whether or not that will be a wise move, only time will tell.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:54 PM   #96
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it can be downright boring to live with someone who counts every penny and plans every move.
Hmmmph. I resemble that remark!

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I've taken the course of inaction for the last 15 years because the potential cons of a relationship seem to outweigh the pros. Whether or not that will be a wise move, only time will tell.
I've done the same. I dont' regret it, but time will tell whether I will eventually. The way I look at it, if I wake up at 75 and feel I need a companion, it will be easy to find one, thanks to actuarial laws.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:03 AM   #97
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No matter what comments posters make, the OP has not reappeared. His last logon was the same day he made the single post!
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:53 AM   #98
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No matter what comments posters make, the OP has not reappeared. His last logon was the same day he made the single post!
If he gives up that easily, so wonder he hasn't found anybody yet.
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:03 AM   #99
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If he gives up that easily, so wonder he hasn't found anybody yet.
+1.....Or maybe the perfect one fell right out of the sky unto his lap right after he posted?
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:27 PM   #100
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People Grow and Learn

Hi Carl,

My husband and I are 34/33 years old and have been married for nine years. We currently save over $50k per year out of $125k (gross) annual salary, with $350k in liquid net worth and one year left of student loan payments. We are on the same page financially, and this is paramount for our future success. But we didn't start out this way.

We met in school. DH was beginning a doctoral program in pharmacy and I was in an undergraduate liberal arts program, considering graduate school and a life of academia to support myself. I had no real earning potential; I was always an excellent student, but studying humanity is a labor of love even for those at the top of their class. I had no credit cards (I didn't believe in them), no debt aside from my student loans, and managed to save several thousand dollars even while going to school. I didn't worry about future finances. My husband had high earning potential, tens of thousands of dollars worth of credit card debt, student loan debt approaching six figures, and no savings. He didn't worry about finances at all.

When we married, we were over $100k in the hole (mostly his), had moved into a swanky loft apartment, and were bleeding money right and left. DH was extremely romantic, and told me that I could walk away from graduate school to pursue art if I wished, because he believed his salary was high enough. So I did.

We lived that life for a few years, and then wised up. I came around faster than DH did, simply because I'm more oriented to big picture thinking, though I'm terrible with daily tasks. (I composed and orchestrated a symphony in high school, but never remembered to check my mail in college). I wanted to go all out stockpiling money, paying off the high interest debts, moving to a cheap apartment, eating rice and beans, travelling nowhere, and making bank. I'm good at math, so I did a bunch of spread sheets showing how fabulously wealthy we could be if we did this. DH wasn't buying. We'd both grown up poor, though his parents were not only low income, they were also spendthrifts who blamed their financial ruin on external forces. DH believed that it wouldn't matter what we did, how we planned, or how hard we tried, life would wipe us out and leave us with nothing anyway. So we might as well have fun while it lasted. He also said he feared investing in the stock market, and that his uncles (who'd managed not to endure bankruptcy like his parents) had advised him to invest his money in stable value and money market funds only.

Since I love to cook, I did manage to get him eating healthy, less expensive food. We did move to a cheap apartment, pay off his credit cards, and start making bank. He convinced me that travel was a worthy occasional splurge, and that a new car wouldn't kill us. Especially since ours was twelve years old. We've compromised on our portfolio with a 60/40 split that we will not make more conservative as we grow older. It's set as is. Both our stock and bond components include international holdings as appropriate. I've decided not to return to graduate school, because I don't believe that the up front cost to our portfolio (and loss of subsequent returns) can be made up in the meager wages academics earn. At this rate, we're looking at his cutting back to part time by the time he's 45-50 years old (2025-2030) and retiring shortly thereafter.

In our experience, we're both much better off together than we would have been on our own. We both have relative strengths and weaknesses that make our union a positive one. And we didn't start out where we are. We've had to grow, challenge each other, make emotional and intellectual progress together. These are good things.

So I guess what I'm saying is, as long as your partner has respect for you and wants good things for you in the future, these issues can work themselves out. Commitment, faithfulness, curiosity, willingness to learn, and goodwill towards one another are far more important to your end result than current state of being. At least, in my opinion and experience.

Best of luck!
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