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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-21-2005, 10:15 PM   #41
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

The latest Economist has the Harvard Prez (Summers) claiming that students with parents making less then $40k go free. Those parents making $40k-60k have greatly reduced rates.
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-22-2005, 09:27 AM   #42
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

How about splitting the difference -- go to a top state school such as Berkeley, Michigan, Ohio State, or UT Austin assuming your parents had the foresight to live in a state with a top-rank public university, do well, and then apply to a prestigious Ivy League school?

I believe that I did it the wrong way. I went a city school (think Gordon Gecko) for my B.S. degree and then a top-five public university for my M.S. Even now, I still wish I had gone to a better undergrad school because, believe it or not, even ten years out of grad school, people still care where I went to undergrad. It comes up in application to business schools, in discussion about careers, etc. The cost difference between a state and city school was miniscule, but dear old dad went the super cheap route and wanted me to live at home. (Hey, somebody had to mow the lawn and wash the dishes!)

When it comes to education, don't skimp. Shop for the sweet spot on the quality versus price curve, but don't shop at the outlet stores.
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-22-2005, 02:50 PM   #43
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement


It's interesting to note that US News lists Harvard and CalTech as the two top values, because the average discount is 65%. So you may pay less than at a top state school, (at least out-of-state). Message to parents is: don't look at the sticker price when school shopping. Go through the whole process and see where you end up after scholarships and financial aid. For me, Private U. cost the same as State after discounts and some negotiating.

Every kid is different, too: a big state school may offer more opportunities in obscure majors, and you don't need to start over if you decide to switch majors like you would have at some specialized private schools.

As far as ER, at least for me, if you assume $40K delta for private vs. public school, and that the delta would be invested, and no economic impact on your first year out of college, that's an impact of less than a year on my ER date. Probably a net positive if you include the what I am sure is a definite economic benefit. My first boss out of school told me my undergrad knowledge was equivalent to most masters, so maybe I saved $$ on that too?

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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-22-2005, 02:54 PM   #44
 
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Quote:
average discount is 65%
That's the average discount for the average broke American. ER Forumites pay more.

For example, Cornell and MIT have zero merit-based scholarships.

But I agree, go through the financial aid stuff anyway.
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-22-2005, 03:20 PM   #45
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

That's interesting on the undergrad versus grad school comparisons - in engineering, it is usually where you got your grad degree and did your research that makes the big difference - not necessarily the undergrad school. Now, you could argue that where you go undergrad cangive you a leg up to where you go to grad school - but it all depends on what you are actually doing and for how long and how you wish to specialize......

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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-22-2005, 04:00 PM   #46
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

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Originally Posted by deserat
but it all depends on what you are actually doing and for how long and how you wish to specialize......
True. Some disciplines don't make much sense to get a grad degree in, unless you're doing research. Much of the time, it is better to have a BSE and a PE if you're doing "applied" work.

Of course, ymmv.
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-24-2005, 09:51 PM   #47
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

There is no question that individuals can be wildly successful with no university schooling whatsoever. But there is also no question that certain fields almost require university training as a right of passage. And it is also true that the most lucrative entry level jobs in some fields (finance, law, medicine, etc.) go to those individuals who attended "prestige" universities. It is always possible for those who went to "lesser" colleges to catch up through innate ability and hard work, but it is always preferable to begin the race with a head start.

Incidentally, the WSJ had an article this weekend suggesting that parents need to save for their own retirement first, before saving for college tuition. Makes me happy to be a DINK

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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-26-2005, 07:59 AM   #48
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

A degree from the Ivy league colleges is not a miracle pill. People can pass out of these colleges and still screw up.

However, if all things are considered equal, a degree from Ivy league colleges not only gives you a headstart but keeps you ahead if you are willing to grind it out in the rat race.

I did not pass out of one but would prefer my daughtet to do so if she has the aptitude for it.
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-26-2005, 08:38 AM   #49
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

I would agree that the "snob appeal" of the Ivy league colleges only works in certain professions. More advanced degrees where you actually create more knowledge in your area of education would seem to provide a higher paycheck and prestige if you came from a top school. A lower level degree where you are working for Megacorp would not seem to carry the same weight or benefits. In the companies I have worked for over the past 30+ years, the only ones thea appeared to benefit from the pedigree sheepskins were the top 2-3 levels of the corporation. Below that it did not seem to matter much where you got your degrees.
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-26-2005, 10:00 AM   #50
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne
A degree from the Ivy league colleges is not a miracle pill. People can pass out of these colleges and still screw up.

However, if all things are considered equal, a degree from Ivy league colleges not only gives you a headstart but keeps you ahead if you are willing to grind it out in the rat race.

I did not pass out of one but would prefer my daughtet to do so if she has the aptitude for it.
My only college degree is an AA from a local junior college. Never held me back at all that I can see (Pres/CEO of 4 corps and CFO/COO of a couple others). Of course, I couldn't
practice law or medicine, nor work for a large corporation
(well, maybe in the mail room). Still, a very successful career. Unfortunately,
I spent all the money.

JG
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-26-2005, 12:23 PM   #51
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGALT2U
My only college degree is an AA from a local junior college.
Psst...Johnny..."AA" isnt a school...
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-26-2005, 12:53 PM   #52
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

He has an BA, an MA, a PHD, and is a BMF besides...

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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-26-2005, 04:07 PM   #53
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by ()
Psst...Johnny..."AA" isnt a school...
No one said it was..............anyway, point taken.

BMF! I like that!

JG

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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-26-2005, 05:12 PM   #54
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

I attend Alcoholics Unanimous... :P

Also a member of DAMM - Drunks Against Mad Mothers...

"Never eat on an empty stomach"
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-26-2005, 07:41 PM   #55
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Absolutely. Save your eating until after you're drunk, when you'll stumble into one of the "we serve other stuff besides breakfast, but who cares" restaurants at 2AM and order eggs, bacon, sausages, hash browns, pancakes and beets with chicken gravy poured over the whole thing, and then actually eat and enjoy it.
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-26-2005, 07:51 PM   #56
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

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Originally Posted by ()
Absolutely. Save your eating until after you're drunk, when you'll stumble into one of the "we serve other stuff besides breakfast, but who cares" restaurants at 2AM and order eggs, bacon, sausages, hash browns, pancakes and beets with chicken gravy poured over the whole thing, and then actually eat and enjoy it.
Hey, wait, I've done that more times than I care to remember. I especially enjoyed it when you could smoke in "Lenny's" (Hey, I only smoke when I'm drunk, and not anymore, o.k.?! )

Three pots of coffee later and you could drive home.
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-26-2005, 08:01 PM   #57
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

You guys have had this discussion at last 3 times since I joined this board. As an ABD (all but dissertation) in the #3 ranked higher education program in the nation, this is the stuff I studied for a living (before I walked away from the PhD). I'm currently an academic advisor in a top ranked undergraduate business program. I would agree that prestige certainly pays in some areas, but alumni base, networking, and being a "go getter" pay just as much or more. I haven't read any studies that support the "Ivy/prestige leads to more success" theory, but I'll keep my eye out.

Quote:
However, if all things are considered equal, a degree from Ivy league colleges not only gives you a headstart but keeps you ahead if you are willing to grind it out in the rat race.
I think this is certainly true if the person hiring you is also from Ivy league, but could also be detrimental.

A theoretical discussion about the origins and purpose of higher education doesn't belong here, but education should be about learning. Not about jobs.
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-26-2005, 10:37 PM   #58
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

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Originally Posted by yelnad
You guys have had this discussion at last 3 times since I joined this board. As an ABD (all but dissertation) in the #3 ranked higher education program in the nation, this is the stuff I studied for a living (before I walked away from the PhD). I'm currently an academic advisor in a top ranked undergraduate business program. I would agree that prestige certainly pays in some areas, but alumni base, networking, and being a "go getter" pay just as much or more. I haven't read any studies that support the "Ivy/prestige leads to more success" theory, but I'll keep my eye out.

I think this is certainly true if the person hiring you is also from Ivy league, but could also be detrimental.

A theoretical discussion about the origins and purpose of higher education doesn't belong here, but education should be about learning. Not about jobs.
Oh, you just had to take the high road, didn't you?

Friend is paying through the nose to send his twin daughters to college right now, one is at some tiny private university (that costs a bundle) and the other is at...University of the Pacific? Anyway, I guess both are getting the kind of education you speak of, small class size, reading the original works of the great thinkers and following their thought processes rather than reading some publisher's synopsis of their work. Instructors are known as mentors, lots of projects, one paper per semester (better be darn good, I hear). They are truly loving it and thriving, and learning to be excellent adults and human beings (not that they were too shabby to begin with). He had to make sacrifices to do this for them, but so far it seems to be worth it.
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-27-2005, 11:32 AM   #59
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnad

I think this is certainly true if the person hiring you is also from Ivy league, but could also be detrimental.
The "detrimental" part is true in my locality and my profession. Under the good ole boy network that governs my profession to a large extent, a degree from local State U is worth more than a degree from just about any private "elite" school. We have one of those private elite schools just up the road from us, but a degree from that school in the field I work in is a joke (seriously). Almost everyone in industry and government graduated from the local State U. If you didn't, you're at a competitive disadvantage for the most part.
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-27-2005, 08:43 PM   #60
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Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnad
I would agree that prestige certainly pays in some areas, but alumni base, networking, and being a "go getter" pay just as much or more. I haven't read any studies that support the "Ivy/prestige leads to more success" theory, but I'll keep my eye out.
In the Navy it's widely believed that the U.S. Naval Academy gives its alumni a head start over ROTC or OCS. However the head start is only about six months, if that, and continued "ring knocking" actually works against the USNA alumni.

Personally I think USNA, and maybe other "elite" schools, polarize their graduates. They're either very, very good or very, very bad with no "average" in between.
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