Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 01:10 AM   #1
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,620
Five ways to prevent retirement

From the Dollar Stretcher: Five Ways To Make Sure You'll Never Retire.

I have a hard time feeling sorry for the retiring worker profiled in the first paragraph...
__________________

__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 08:33 AM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Dawg52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Central MS/Orange Beach, AL
Posts: 7,446
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Kind of reminds me of a guy I work with(age 68). He retired at 59 and had to unretire at age 65. He made good money through out his career but helped support his kids when their marriages failed.*On the surface a noble thing to do, but his children are in their 40's and still gives them money to this day! He also lost a good chunk of money when stocks tanked a few years ago.* Not much he can do about that, but he sure can let his kids grow up by just saying no when they come by for their weekly allowance!
__________________

__________________
Retired 3/31/2007@52
Full time wuss.......
Dawg52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 09:25 AM   #3
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Item #2 is the one I don't like to read. An amazing number of good things have come from hanging out on this forum, but one bad thing is regret that we didn't evaluate some more reasonably priced college alternatives. Ignorance is bliss.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 09:39 AM   #4
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,875
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
Item #2 is the one I don't like to read.* An amazing number of good things have come from hanging out on this forum, but one bad thing is regret that we didn't evaluate some more reasonably priced college alternatives.* Ignorance is bliss.
Well, I evaluted them. My daughter ignored me. The result was lots
of time spent in court (with my ex.), lots of attorney's fees and now my daughter is not speaking to me. I did the right thing but it made a hell
of a mess family-wise.

JG
__________________
MRGALT2U is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 11:29 AM   #5
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,620
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
Item #2 is the one I don't like to read.* An amazing number of good things have come from hanging out on this forum, but one bad thing is regret that we didn't evaluate some more reasonably priced college alternatives.* Ignorance is bliss.
Sounds like the lesser of two evils:
1) Unmotivated, surly kid attending local community college while living (and driving, and dating, and drinking) at home. But it's cheap!

2) Enthused, happy kid developing independence at a far-away state university while engaging in all of the above activities in the co-ed dorm. Not only is it expensive, but you don't have to watch it happen!

Later this year we're gonna get the standard UH tour for our eighth-grader and get on their mailing list for the summer activities & year-round seminars. Then we'll have a baseline to compare to other schools that we visit during family vacations.

If you think 8th grade is too young to be touring colleges, you're wrong. Some schools start picking out their future alumni when the kids are still in 7th grade...
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 12:17 PM   #6
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 56
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement


Strongly disagree with #2. If your child (or you) are going to a top school, it is probably worth it. Middle-of-the road private school probably not.

You can't tell me there's no difference. I know one guy who failed out of my alma mater (twice!), and made a 4.0, in the same major, at the public school down the street.

Not only will you get a better education, it will open doors for a better job out of college, and open doors just by being on your resume after that. And, you get to network and make connections with better connected people.

I graduated with a lot of debt, but it was worth it, and has payed itself back several times over. I'm not an elitist. I'm not saying you can't get a good education at a state school, or by doing the the CC for 2 years plus college for 2 years route. But those success stories are fewer, and the time to get where those who went to a top school are at, is longer.


__________________
work4beer is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 01:00 PM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Unless i'm mistaken, the stats show that there are far more wealthy people who either never went to college or attended partially without graduating or attended a humble school than people who went to a very expensive top school.

While I wouldnt dispute that a top school is "better" and in many ways well worth the money, the overall outcome is that you are not as likely to be as prosperous.

Of course, that depends on what you consider prosperous.

If you consider prosperous to be learning skills, making money, spending wisely, and achieving financial independence, then a top school is probably not going to lead you in that direction.

If you consider prosperous to be rubbing elbows with the elite, joining the right legbone or cheekbone clubs, buying a new SL every other year, living in a million dollar home, and having negative net worth but being the envy of the neighborhood, then there you go.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 01:07 PM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
cube_rat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,466
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

I agree with () on #2. I bet if you surveyed the CEO's of the top fortune 500 companies, you'll find more business graduates from the regular ol' schools than those who attended Wharton, Kellogg or Harvard.

Personally, I finished my bachelor's degree at a private university later in life. Not having a degree did not deter my professional growth or income what so ever.
__________________
fuzzy? cute?
cube_rat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 01:08 PM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,152
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by ()
...you are not as likely to be as prosperous.
I did a double-take on this one. First thought you wrote "preposterous". 8)

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 01:17 PM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
maddythebeagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,450
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Going into huge debt for a college degree doesnt make much sense in my book. : Then again, I am an engineer and the larger public universities actually had the best programs.
__________________
- Hurry! to the cliffs of insanity!
maddythebeagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 01:37 PM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by ()
Unless i'm mistaken, the stats show that there are far more wealthy people who either never went to college or attended partially without graduating or attended a humble school than people who went to a very expensive top school.

While I wouldnt dispute that a top school is "better" and in many ways well worth the money, the overall outcome is that you are not as likely to be as prosperous.

Of course, that depends on what you consider prosperous.

If you consider prosperous to be learning skills, making money, spending wisely, and achieving financial independence, then a top school is probably not going to lead you in that direction.

If you consider prosperous to be rubbing elbows with the elite, joining the right legbone or cheekbone clubs, buying a new SL every other year, living in a million dollar home, and having negative net worth but being the envy of the neighborhood, then there you go.
Don't mistake an outlier for the median. For the average college student contemplating the future, the best choice is the school and degree that allows them to have the highest certainty of the highest income doing what they want to do for the lowest college tuition investment. Very, very few of us become mega-wealthy CEOs. Millions of us become accountants, lawyers, engineers, etc. I'd rather bank on the steady work than the moonshot, myself.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 01:56 PM   #12
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Work 4 Beer
Strongly disagree with #2. If your child (or you) are going to a top school, it is probably worth it. Middle-of-the road private school probably not.

You can't tell me there's no difference. I know one guy who failed out of my alma mater (twice!), and made a 4.0, in the same major, at the public school down the street.

Not only will you get a better education, it will open doors for a better job out of college, and open doors just by being on your resume after that. And, you get to network and make connections with better connected people.

I graduated with a lot of debt, but it was worth it, and has payed itself back several times over. I'm not an elitist. I'm not saying you can't get a good education at a state school, or by doing the the CC for 2 years plus college for 2 years route. But those success stories are fewer, and the time to get where those who went to a top school are at, is longer.
I think the distinction between top private schools and middle of the road private schools can be drawn just as well at public schools.

There are the U Va's, Berkeley's, U Texas, U of NC, U of Illi UC, etc. out there. Good schools for many programs. Then there's Middle Southwestern Podunk State University. You'll get an education and a degree when you graduate, but it won't look the same on a resume, the skills you picked up may not be as cutting edge, and your social network may not be as wide or deep as if you went to one of the prestigious public universities.

There's a continuous spectrum of quality (however you measure it) in both public and private schools. The difference between public and private is usually cost, in my opinion. Sure, the top five best private schools might be marginally better than the top five public schools, but only a small proportion of people will attend those ten schools. For the average person, you may not be able to get in to one of the top 5 or top ten schools.
__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 02:13 PM   #13
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Here are some of the pros and cons I've found of sending my daughter to Wash U at St. Louis (recently ranked 11th in nation) as opposed to a Univ of Calif. school.

Pros

1. I know that she's getting a top education with small class sizes and a good program in biomedical engineering. At a UC school DD might have harbored a lingering resentment of her cheap dad the rest of her life.

Cons

1. Tuition cost

2. High travel costs

3. Rich-person environment may result in higher expenses ("What, no cell phone?!", "Let's go on a ski trip!").

4. Name recognition of Wash U not proportional to tuition cost.

There's one other pro, but you didn't hear it from me: will probably end up with rich husband. I did not say that. It must have been the stuffed beaver who wrote that.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 02:22 PM   #14
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl


There's one other pro, but you didn't hear it from me: will probably end up with rich husband.* *I did not say that.* It must have been the stuffed beaver who wrote that.*
Heheh, busted!

T-Al, FWIW, I met DW at college. We were engeged by junior year and got married about a year after graduation. Apparently meeting a spouse was a long-standing tradition at our alma mater, with 50+% of graduates marrying another alums not being uncommon in years past. Dunno if that is still the case, especially since the school has a reputation as a gat student mecca.

Of course, she might meet a spoiled loafer or a scholarship kid, but you pays yo' money and you takes yo' chances, I suppose.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 02:35 PM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,505
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

As i mentioned once before, I ended up dropping out of a service academy (think high end school) and just went to a local small private school;* one respected here locally, but certainly not nationally recognized.* Incidentally, i actually work with one west point graduate and another Air Force Academy graduate.* One's a GS-12 (older than me) and one's a GS-13 (much older than me).* I'm also a GS-12.* *I went on to get a masters degree.

In no way, form or fashion do I think they have an edge on me.* *In fact, I would think my masters from a mediocre private college trumps their service academy degree, and probably would in the eyes of most people.*

If you're comparing apples to apples, it might matter.* *But you can go on to get a masters from BFE and instantly you trump that "harvard" undergrad degree.* *Everyone knows a masters is higher than a bachelors. *And if you get a decent GRE score, you can usually go (to graduate school) free.* *I know i did.* Heck, i made money since I did a teaching assistantship.

Azanon

(now granted service academies are bad examples if we're talking about cost to go. They pay you to be a cadet).
__________________
azanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 02:45 PM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mesa
Posts: 3,588
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Work 4 Beer
Strongly disagree with #2.* If your child (or you) are going to a top school, it is probably worth it.* Middle-of-the road private school probably not.

. . .
You are right, WW4B. *A pedigree pays. It opens doors that a degree from a non-pedigree school won't. If you want to get into those doors, a pedigree degree will help.

You aren't guaranteed a better education at a pedigree school, but you are guaranteed more and better opportunities. *You can either take advantage of them or you can get by drinking and rubbing shoulders with the smart, influential kids (GWB comes to mind). *Similarly, you can get a really good education at underdog schools. *Nothing will stop a smart, motivated kid from getting smarter. *

As far as any kind of data that more CEOs come from Podunk U. or Dropout Tech . . . well there are about 10,000 times the number of people from these institutions than there are from pedigree schools. *Your odds of getting a high flying job are much better if you went to school with high flyers. *You can get to be a corporate exec without any degree by working hard, proving yourself or by sucking up to the right person. *But the pedigree graduate is likely to be handed the same position right out of school. *
__________________
sgeeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 03:08 PM   #17
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Jay_Gatsby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,719
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Pedigrees do matter, especially in the legal and medical professions. An MBA from a top business school is also a must if you want to reach the highest levels of established companies.

OTOH, if you're an entreprenuer, where you received your degree from really doesn't matter. Starting your own business requires street smarts and a true head for business -- things you can't learn in a pedigree school.
__________________
He had one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it . . . It faced, or seemed to face, the whole external world for an instant and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. -- The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald
Jay_Gatsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 03:25 PM   #18
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

I think the biggest thing that the article left out are the little things. With the exception of the biggest thing that the article left out, which is the Mcmansion. - The big house continues to eat you alive, yet is not mentioned.

The Little things:

IOW, the daily Lattes, The monthly cable bill etc. etc. - The first step a financial planner would do is examine someone's personal budget. Often times it's a huge part of the income that is disappearing and the spender does not know where it's going.

The article is probably correct that an Ivy league education, may not financially pay off in the long run, but this is an intangible that is difficult to measure. (i.e. - If you are smart enough to get in one, you are probably gonna do ok anyway)
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 03:31 PM   #19
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
Here are some of the pros and cons I've found of sending my daughter to Wash U at St. Louis (recently ranked 11th in nation) as opposed to a Univ of Calif. school.

Pros

1. I know that she's getting a top education with small class sizes and a good program in biomedical engineering. At a UC school DD might have harbored a lingering resentment of her cheap dad the rest of her life.

Hey, don't knock UC's! Some states may have poor public Universities, but here is a quote on UCSD, DW's alma mater:

"In 1995, the National Research Council ranked UCSD faculty the 10th best in the nation, and ranked numerous graduate programs among the top ten in the United States in terms of quality: neurosciences (1st), oceanography (1st), bioengineering (2nd), physiology (2nd), pharmacology (3rd), theatre and dance (3rd), genetics (6th), geosciences (6th), cell and developmental biology (7th), anthropology (9th), biochemistry and molecular biology (2nd), political science (2nd), aerospace engineering (10th), and mechanical engineering (10th). UCSD also counts among its research centers the Scripps Institution of Oceanography and the San Diego Supercomputer Center."

UCLA and Berkeley are right up their, too!
__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement
Old 09-19-2005, 04:12 PM   #20
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 56
Re: Five ways to prevent retirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
There are the U Va's, Berkeley's, U Texas, U of NC, U of Illi UC, etc. out there. Good schools for many programs. Then there's Middle Southwestern Podunk State University. You'll get an education and a degree when you graduate, but it won't look the same on a resume, the skills you picked up may not be as cutting edge, and your social network may not be as wide or deep as if you went to one of the prestigious public universities.
Yeah, but you have to a) live in a state with a top public university and b) be able to get them into it; in-state competition at say, UC Berkeley, is pretty fierce. Paying out-of-state tuition to a public university is not much cheaper than a private school.

You also need to look at the overall opportunity cost. Some of the biggest expenses in a college education are more or less fixed: room&board, going to school vs. working. So if going away to private school costs:

($30K x 4) + ($25Kx4 for not working) + $(10K room/board x 4) = $260K

public school should cost about:
($7.5K X 4) + ($25Kx 4$ for not working) + ($10K room/board x 4) = $170K

I think you can pick up most of the delta in the first 5 years, if not sooner.

Another point is, that $30k is just the sticker price. You may be able to get state aid/merit/athletic scholarships to cover the rest. We had to do a few "show-downs" with the financial aid office, but we got a "discount" of about 50% of sticker price, and my parents and I split the rest. So it would have cost my parents the same if not more to send me to state U.



__________________

__________________
work4beer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tax Policy Promotes "Early" Retirement REWahoo FIRE and Money 19 07-21-2017 03:10 PM
Who pays more income taxes in retirement? LOL! FIRE and Money 19 12-17-2006 04:16 PM
Should a married couple have individual retirement investing plans? Anaya_1de Young Dreamers 28 12-05-2006 08:57 PM
Diversifying My Retirement Funds and Confused Rob Other topics 1 10-31-2005 10:59 AM
Scott Burns: Stay safe on retirement spending PL FIRE and Money 49 12-22-2004 11:59 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:45 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.