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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-02-2007, 01:45 PM   #21
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

Quote:
Originally Posted by S
I've never had a problem with a gov't agency at any level. I'm especially impressed by the IRS -- their website is fantastic and their "customer serivce" telephone reps are wonderful.

My billing staff doctor's office, my health insurance company, our bank, the local autobody shop.. talk about being staffed by cretins.
S, are you using satire - I honestly could not tell?

Is *this* the IRS customer service people you describe as 'wonderful'? And remember, if you act on one of their wrong answers - you are still held liable!

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/...ps/P105690.asp

Quote:
In a 2005 test of the system by the Treasury Inspector General, 35% of answers were incorrect.
Oh, but the IRS didn't agree with the methodology - it included questions that they didn't answer at all (?) or referred elsewhere.
Quote:

The IRS does not believe referring taxpayers or failure to provide service is the same as not providing a correct tax law answer. Excluding these questions from the calculations and including only those questions to which the assistors provided answers raises the accuracy rate for the 2005 Filing Season from 66 to 75 percent.
So, after cherry-picking the questions that they *could* answer, they still got 25% wrong! Oh, now I feel better.

My recent call to the IRS got me referred to another dept, and then they wanted to refer me back to the original dept. I think they are all in on this 'referral does not count as wrong' methodology.

-ERD50
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-02-2007, 04:54 PM   #22
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50
We all make our choices. What is the sense of complaining, when there are alternatives?
Those complaining about how good others have it presumably lack the skills, or at least the confidence, to apply for similar jobs.

As Steve said, the grass is always greener. When I was a student, the university faculty association went on strike for a few weeks. I can still remember my torts professor whinging about the fact that her former law school classmates (allegedly) made more money than her. A few key facts went unmentioned:
(1) lawyers in private practice ("lawyers") work much longer hours than law professors ("profs");
(2) lawyers have significantly less job security than profs;
(3) lawyers have no pensions;
(4) lawyers don't get summers off (or sabbaticals every few years);
(5) profs don't have to do tiresome things like chasing ambulances clients, or docketing every waking moment;
and the list goes on....

Similar inconvenient truths probably exist for the private sector employees envied by LKH.
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-02-2007, 06:56 PM   #23
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton
Those complaining about how good others have it presumably lack the skills, or at least the confidence, to apply for similar jobs.

As Steve said, the grass is always greener. When I was a student, the university faculty association went on strike for a few weeks. I can still remember my torts professor whinging about the fact that her former law school classmates (allegedly) made more money than her. A few key facts went unmentioned:
(1) lawyers in private practice ("lawyers") work much longer hours than law professors ("profs");
(2) lawyers have significantly less job security than profs;
(3) lawyers have no pensions;
(4) lawyers don't get summers off (or sabbaticals every few years);
(5) profs don't have to do tiresome things like chasing ambulances clients, or docketing every waking moment;
and the list goes on....

Similar inconvenient truths probably exist for the private sector employees envied by LKH.
As a government employee, I like to think I have the skills (or will in a few more years at any rate) to get back into the competitive intelligence game as a consultant, and I have the confidence now that I didn't have when I got laid off in the telecom bust. That said, after a lot of soul searching the past few months I've realized that I lack the interest, for many of the reasons detailed above. I get week-long spring breaks and christmas holidays that don't even count off my annual leave, 6 weeks of annual/sick leave, a near-guaranteed 40 hour week (I can't remember a week here that I worked more than 50 hours--and that was a weird case), a pension that will almost certainly pay off, 100% paid health premiums to 65, ironclad job security, etc. I chose to take a job that paid a bit less to get those rewards in return--and we still make enough to be able to pull the trigger by 50 at the latest. I also would rather my skills support students who are trying to improve their lives than to support some company researching the benefits of a potential product line. I have a great job, you wouldn't catch me dead whining about it, and corporate America would essentially have to match those benefits and give me a pay raise to get me back.
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-02-2007, 07:28 PM   #24
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire
I am a federal employee, and when I took this job I was offered half again as much as my faculty salary had been at LSU. Industry offers more than I am making, by up to 15-20%. There are two reasons why I don't take a job in industry.

(1) I don't suppose one can beat the feds for benefits, job security, and organizational stability.
(2) A job in my field in private industry or academia requires upwards of 80 hours/week.

In government, I work 40 hours and go home. I'm not even ALLOWED to work over, unless I take comp time. So for me, federal employment is a better fit. You are right, though; industry pays better (at least in my profession).
If you are working half as much as you would in private industry for only 15% less pay (and almost certainly with better beneifts) then I don't think you can accurately say that industry pays better.
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-03-2007, 07:03 AM   #25
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

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Originally Posted by OKLibrarian
As a government employee, I like to think I have the skills (or will in a few more years at any rate) to get back into the competitive intelligence game as a consultant, and I have the confidence now that I didn't have when I got laid off in the telecom bust. That said, after a lot of soul searching the past few months I've realized that I lack the interest, for many of the reasons detailed above.... I chose to take a job that paid a bit less to get those rewards in return--and we still make enough to be able to pull the trigger by 50 at the latest.
Great post!

I am not interested in bashing public employees. Some are lazy, some are dedicated ... the same as in any occupation.

There are pluses and minuses to anything, and we are all hopefully mature enough to realize this and make our decisions accordingly.
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-03-2007, 07:52 AM   #26
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anansi
If you are working half as much as you would in private industry for only 15% less pay (and almost certainly with better beneifts) then I don't think you can accurately say that industry pays better.
I think this is the crucial issue. The whole package, when compared to private sector, is superior even though the takehome pay may be less. Also the lack of direct competition when combined with a 40-hour work ethic creates a less than responsive environment. This may be due to the policies being set by politicians but the overall effect is that the affected citizens are unimpressed.

So you get a little less respect from your peers, and you get a little frustrated by the policies that affect your work environment, but you hang in for the golden parachute that awaits you upon ER. And you get to enjoy the journey outside work because you enjoy more leisure time along the way.

(I would add that private sector work environments that are dominated by strong unions also have some similar characteristics to what you are experiencing.)
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-03-2007, 11:09 PM   #27
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

Oh, by the way, I got hold of the figures the Dept. of Personnel has been using to claim that our benefits will be 85% of market. Turns out that was a bit of a fib. TOTAL COMPENSATION will be 85% of market. That includes wages, which are theoretically 100% of market (not quite true, but whatever). If you just compare employer contributions to HDL benefits, and the State is paying 44% of prevailing market.

Why was I surprised at the comments? I wasn't. Mostly I was ticked off. I like my job. I'm good at it. I got an outstanding performance appraisal this year, and the people I deal with express appreciation for the work I do for them frequently. But people who don't know shinola feel they are entitled to to belittle what I do because some government workers (not all - not even a significant minority, IME) don't do a great job. Well, guess what? I get crappy service all the time at the grocery store, from customer service at my ISP, etc., from my insurance company, and I don't belittle everyone who works in the private sector. And I pay their salaries, even more than individual taxpayers pay mine. It's this kind of attitude that makes it easy for politicians to balance the budget by picking my pocket, because I'm an easy target, politically.

Why do I stick around? Because the one thing the State still has going for it is the pension (though they also did some changes to that recently that makes it much less attractive for new hires). I'm 6 years from retirement, with 32 years' service, at 80% of my salary, with COLA. So, while it's getting harder and harder to afford insurance, and while my salary hasn't kept pace with inflation for about a decade, I'm too close to the pension to quit now.

But yes, I'm getting angry and I'm getting activist. It's not so much for me as for others. I'm one of the lucky ones. I started in with the State early, back when they had regular pay increases that moved people through the scale. I had moved through all the steps before they phased that out. Most of my coworkers came later. They've done excellent work, but they languish at the bottom of the pay scale because the legislature hasn't funded merit increases. Last year, we hired two people who quit immediately once they got a look at the compensation package we offered. Their positions have gone unfilled for over a year now because we can't attract more applicants. And that's how it is statewide.

About 43% of the employees in my state are about to retire, and according to the employee association, turnover among newer workers is about 50%. If the State does not find a way to attract and retain younger and newer workers soon, more than 70% of the workforce will be somewhere on the learning curve, and all the equity built in skill and experience will be lost. I worry that very soon, my state could no longer be a good place to live and work, because the people behind the infrastructure will be poorly trained, underqualified and unmotivated. You may have encountered some workers like that, but IME, it's not the norm. Not yet. But you get what you pay for.

So yes, I'm going to complain about this, because I care about my state and about the people I work with, and until a lot of us care and speak up, the politicians aren't going to be motivated to do anything.
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-04-2007, 07:40 AM   #28
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

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Originally Posted by LKH

Why was I surprised at the comments? I wasn't. Mostly I was ticked off. .... But people who don't know shinola feel they are entitled to to belittle what I do because
LKH - get a grip. Just to be sure it was not bias on my part, I went back through the posts. Not a single one 'belittles what you do' (let me know if you find one, I'm on my first cup this AM). And it would be meaningless if they did, since they don't know you or your job personally.

People *are* entitled to have the opinion that govt workers serve them worse than the private sectors. All of us deal with both, so don't say that we 'don't know shinola'. Odd how it is OK for you to generalize about us, isn't it?

Quote:
Why do I stick around? Because the one thing the State still has going for it is the pension (though they also did some changes to that recently that makes it much less attractive for new hires). I'm 6 years from retirement, with 32 years' service, at 80% of my salary, with COLA.
OK, so you ARE finally telling us (even though you don't seem to want to admit it) that the TOTAL COMPENSATION package for your job is better than what you can get in the private sector. Thanks for clearing that up for us - we were wondering why you would want to stay in a job that offers such poor compensation. BTW, my pension (if I wait until 65) - ~40% NON-COLA. Wow, that is a big diff in NW required to retire at a 4% SWR.


Quote:
It's not so much for me as for others. I'm one of the lucky ones. I started in with the State early, back when they had regular pay increases that moved people through the scale. I had moved through all the steps before they phased that out.
The private sector is phasing out and eliminating many benefits also. The mega-corp I retired from is a very, very different place (with regards to benefits for new hires) than it was just a few years ago. No pension - nada, and other cuts.

Quote:
Last year, we hired two people who quit immediately once they got a look at the compensation package we offered. Their positions have gone unfilled for over a year now because we can't attract more applicants.
They didn't look at the compensation package *before* they accepted the job? And quit immediately - before they could see what compensation they could get elsewhere? That story is either fishy, or those people were not too bright, or very impulsive. The state is probably better off without them?

There you go - the free market will solve this (eventually). If they can't fill the positions, they will need to do something.

-ERD50
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-04-2007, 07:51 AM   #29
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

Quote:
Originally Posted by LKH
I get crappy service all the time at the grocery store, from customer service at my ISP, etc., from my insurance company, and I don't belittle everyone who works in the private sector. And I pay their salaries, even more than individual taxpayers pay mine. It's this kind of attitude that makes it easy for politicians to balance the budget by picking my pocket, because I'm an easy target, politically.
As indicated above, personally I'm neither for nor against public employees. But I'd like to gently point out that the reason for some of the critical comments is probably due to the fact that, unlike your private sector examples (grocery stores, ISP, insurers, etc.), most people have no choice when it comes to dealing with Big Brother, who has a monopoly on public services. E.g., I can easily switch grocery stores, but there is only one agency issuing passports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50
The private sector is phasing out and eliminating many benefits also. The mega-corp I retired from is a very, very different place (with regards to benefits for new hires) than it was just a few years ago. No pension - nada, and other cuts.
Very true (and most small business don't offer - and never have offered - any pensions or other benefits). Globalization is a simple reality, and there are well-educated, industrious people in India, China, etc. willing to do good work for less money. The days of union feather-bedding are quickly drawing to a close.
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-04-2007, 08:09 AM   #30
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

Just a note on 80% COLA pension vs 40% non-COLA.

I ran this with the defaults in FIRECALC (set to provide the starting NW required for 95% success). I was conservative, and assumed that 80% pension was equal to 80% of spending (i.e. a $24K pension on $30K spend). Pretty sure that for a LBYM, the pension would represent 80% of gross salary, spend would be less, but I didn't want to make too many assumptions. So this will understate the effect, I think.

80% COLA requires a nest egg of $188K, provides 100% success. Avg final NW 2.36x starting NW.

40% non-COLA requires a nest egg of $600K, provides 95.3% success. Avg final NW 2.21x starting NW.

So for the 80% COLA, less than a third the NW required, and marginally better results to boot. And even more assurance if we extended that past 30 years.

To be clear, I'm not complaining. I could have pursued a govt job, I decided not to, and I will live with that decision, good, bad or indifferent.

-ERD50
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-04-2007, 10:27 AM   #31
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

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Originally Posted by ERD50
LKH - get a grip. Just to be sure it was not bias on my part, I went back through the posts. Not a single one 'belittles what you do' (let me know if you find one, I'm on my first cup this AM). And it would be meaningless if they did, since they don't know you or your job personally.
What I do is work for the government. And yes, people have belittled that.

Quote:
People *are* entitled to have the opinion that govt workers serve them worse than the private sectors. All of us deal with both, so don't say that we 'don't know shinola'. Odd how it is OK for you to generalize about us, isn't it?
People are entitled to any opinion they like, but I'm entitled the opinion that they don't know shinola. Most people who think government service is that bad don't really understand what MAKES it that way. They bag on the workers, as if it's their fault, as if they don't care about doing a good job, as if they don't work hard, rather than make any effort to understand why things might be as PIA as they are. Some of the stuff I have to ask people to do is, I admit, horribly bureaucratic. I don't like asking, but I am a slave to the statute. I wasn't elected to make policy, I have to live with what the guys under the gold dome write, just like everyone else. And unfortunately, because politicians almost never have any idea how things work in the trenches, the law of unintended consequences comes into play all too often. If the statute says that I have to require XYZ, then I have to make sure people provide XYZ, even if it doesn't make sense. I do an awful lot of hand-holding to get full compliance, because people think that they can just provide X, take a half-hearted swipe at Y and forget Z altogether and they should get what they need because it should be obvious to anyone that they qualify. Now, I try hard to be helpful rather than let my frustration show through but sometimes, after about the 100th time I deal with someone who barely makes an effort, then cops an attitude when I ask for more (try being cursed at by a PASTOR), it's hard. What I see with most agencies I deal with is people doing their best NOT to live down to the government worker stereotype, and I think they ought to get credit for that.

Quote:
OK, so you ARE finally telling us (even though you don't seem to want to admit it) that the TOTAL COMPENSATION package for your job is better than what you can get in the private sector. Thanks for clearing that up for us - we were wondering why you would want to stay in a job that offers such poor compensation. BTW, my pension (if I wait until 65) - ~40% NON-COLA. Wow, that is a big diff in NW required to retire at a 4% SWR.
You must have misread something. TOTAL COMPENSATION is 85% of prevailing. Clearly NOT better than private sector, or it would be better than 100%. And that does include the pension, BTW. So yes, the pension is great. But the other stuff stinks enough to bring the whole package well below prevailing.

Also, WRT the pension, don't get the idea that this is some big taxpayer-funded handout. Compared to what private sector employers contribute to FICA, pension plans, and/or matching 401k accounts, my employer probably pays less. I contribute about 12% of my income, and have for going on 30 years - if I could've wisely invested that same amount on my own, I'd probably be able to FIRE at about the same percentage of my pay.

Quote:
The private sector is phasing out and eliminating many benefits also. The mega-corp I retired from is a very, very different place (with regards to benefits for new hires) than it was just a few years ago. No pension - nada, and other cuts.
I know that's happening everywhere. Plus too many employers are raiding pension plans with impunity. And yet our compensation package is 85% of prevailing. Shouldn't that tell you that I'm not concerned for nothing?

Quote:
They didn't look at the compensation package *before* they accepted the job? And quit immediately - before they could see what compensation they could get elsewhere? That story is either fishy, or those people were not too bright, or very impulsive. The state is probably better off without them?
What they get to see is the pay SCALE - they don't know where they're going to fall in the scale until they get the offer, and they may assume that while the initial salary is going to be "entry-level" they can expect raises. They may not realize until they get to orientation that raises haven't been forthcoming for ages, and probably that won't change. As for benefits, I've NEVER seen a job that told me what the benefits were before they offered the position.

Quote:
There you go - the free market will solve this (eventually). If they can't fill the positions, they will need to do something.
They haven't been filling positions for several years now, and they've had this turnover for several years. But because of the constitutional budget constraints, and because (hate to make this political) we have had a Republican governor who didn't mind screwing the workers, nothing has been done yet. The thing is, so long as the State has the experienced workers, there are ways to compensate for being somewhat understaffed - maybe you don't get everything on the mandate accomplished, but you can get the important stuff done if you know the shortcuts and priorities. But that's about to change as well.

Ultimately, you totally ignored the main point of my message, and that's my concern about how this is going to affect services in the future, if something doesn't change very soon.
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-04-2007, 11:36 AM   #32
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

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Originally Posted by LKH
...Ultimately, you totally ignored the main point of my message, and that's my concern about how this is going to affect services in the future, if something doesn't change very soon.
IMHO service is going to continue down as costs continue to bloat until the essential services are re-engineered. I see little incentive for senior management in the public sector to do that (smaller budgets and fewer people - not too many politicians like Gorbachov anywhere today).
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-04-2007, 11:45 AM   #33
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

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Originally Posted by LKH

You must have misread something. TOTAL COMPENSATION is 85% of prevailing.
No, you are still missing th point that several of us have tried to make. I am not talking some dollar figure calculation of compensation(esp one provided by your employer), I am talking about the compensation as measured by *you*. As in this line:


Quote:
Why do I stick around? Because the one thing the State still has going for it is the pension...
The fact that you decided to stick around means that the *total* compensation is fair, or at least not so bad that you decide to do something about it. Total compensation can include status, security, job satisfaction, the challenge, travel opportunities, time off, any number of intangibles. The same 'opportunity' may be a plus for some, a minus for others. That is why you can't put a dollar figure on it.

Quote:
As for benefits, I've NEVER seen a job that told me what the benefits were before they offered the position.
Gee, that is one of the things the HR people do when they want you to come work for them. This is an odd, odd experience on your part, even if it is true. One of the reasons companies provide benefits is to attract new workers - you think they want to hide those benefits under a basket? At a minimum, you would review the benefits between getting the offer and actually accepting it. You said these people were actually working there before they learned what the benefits were. I say that is their problem.


Quote:
Ultimately, you totally ignored the main point of my message, and that's my concern about how this is going to affect services in the future, if something doesn't change very soon.
Oh, I understand that it could mean some rough going if they really cannot fill those positions with qualified people. Eventually, something will be done. I never said the free market system kept everybody comfy, just that I think over the long run, it works better than the alternatives.

We could still be paying subsidies to buggy-whip manufacturers so that they didn't experience the discomfort of their world changing around them. But I don't think that is good for the long term condition of our society.

-ERD50
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-04-2007, 02:24 PM   #34
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

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Originally Posted by LKH

Not so much anymore. Some years ago, the citizens of my state adopted a "taxpayer's bill of rights." Not a bad notion - the theory was that the State's income should stay at the level it was at that time, keeping up with growth and inflation, but no big increases. Problem is, it was very badly written, and the way it works, it tends to ratchet down the State's income each year. To explain how it works, say a family had to live on this. Say the family made $50,000 one year. The next year, they could make $50,000 plus inflation, plus any new income brought in if, say, the oldest kid started working. But say the next year, Dad got laid off, and the family's income dropped to $23,000. The next year, even if Dad was rehired, the family could only earn $23,000, plus growth, plus inflation. That's what's happened to my State. We've had a few recessions, had to cut back, but then when the economy recovered, the State could not recover what it lost. There are also provisions that prohibit the State from saving or holding funds, from issuing bonds or any kind of debt for long-term expenses, etc, and there's another amendment that requires that the State's budget balance every year.
LKH.... I wanted to stay out of this, but finally got fed up a bit....

You example is SO WRONG that it is amazing nobody else said anything.... What the gvmt has to live on is not losing a job like you gave... it is the opposite of inflation, which is deflation... so, the gvmt can spend their current budget plus inflation plus any new citizens at the going rate... if there were not inflation, then it is flat... if there is deflation, then of course they spend LESS because things cost less... it is NOT like they LOST A JOB.. but their salary was cut only a little...

Gvmts have been famous in spending every dime they had... and then starting new programs when flush with money.. and when the recessions come... cut back on the programs people want, not the 'new' crap they started when the times were good.. these programs are a way to stop those spending creeps that only lead to higher taxes..

And don't get me started on 'pay as you go'... to charge a fee on some of the items... that has happend here but they did not want to spend the money on that 'thing'.. so the cash piles up for awhile and they 'borrow' it for their other pet projects and keep collecting the fee in the name of the 'old' one.. which needs 'funding'..

As for pay... the total compensation is good for gvmet employees.... even the new ones... there are enough people to get the job done...

And about your two openings... we have even more... they have a stated salary here and will not pay any higher.. we have hired people in Phoenix, but the economy is going strong, so they quit and take a job at another firm... or company will not pay any higher... so we do the work from here... it is not only gvmts that do those kind of things...
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-04-2007, 04:18 PM   #35
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

I'll guess 85% of prevailing compensation, which I presume is the median, is within reason. Probably a bit low, but still within reason.
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-04-2007, 05:53 PM   #36
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire
Industry offers more than I am making, by up to 15-20%.

A job in my field in private industry or academia requires upwards of 80 hours/week.

I don't suppose one can beat the feds for benefits

In government, I work 40 hours and go home.

You are right, though; industry pays better (at least in my profession).
No offense, but my my math you are making at least 1.7 times per hour what the private sector jobs are paying, plus you have better benefits. Sounds like a deal to me.
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-04-2007, 06:49 PM   #37
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

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Originally Posted by Culture
No offense, but my my math you are making at least 1.7 times per hour what the private sector jobs are paying, plus you have better benefits. Sounds like a deal to me.
It is for me too, but whether or not it is a deal depends on what you want. Some people would rather earn the extra 15-20% so they could save it and retire earlier. I probably would too except I am just a wimp when it comes to working long hours these days! Did so for many years (grad school, soft money research, ugh ugh ugh) but now that I am in my fifties I am ready to cut back on hours a bit.

Now the 40-hour-week is not true for all govenment scientists. A friend from grad school who works for another agency told me that he is expected to work an 80-hour week. Working in my agency is different. Sometimes we have to work extra hours (especially when on travel), but when we do we get comp time.

I am SO ready to call it quits. Three more years, give or take half a year, and I am DONE.
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-04-2007, 08:16 PM   #38
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

I think the problem with government work is that it is like a pendulum...esp. on the regulatory end....agencies get too aggressive and then get cut back by pro-business lobbyists...and that can go too far...and it swings back.... Op, if you are working in a program that is being pushed so far that you dont believe that you are accomplishing anything, you should be looking for a new job...Seriously, sounds like this all is out of your control...by the way, what program are you in?
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-05-2007, 06:36 AM   #39
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods


Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire
A job in my field in private industry or academia requires upwards of 80 hours/week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire

Now the 40-hour-week is not true for all govenment scientists. A friend from grad school who works for another agency told me that he is expected to work an 80-hour week. Working in my agency is different. Sometimes we have to work extra hours (especially when on travel), but when we do we get comp time.
Nobody "expects" 80-hour weeks. Their employees would have to sleep in their cars in the lot. A worked some long hours during crises but I don't know anyone. other than a few small business owners, who really worked anything like that kind of schedule. I do know people who travelled extensively that professed to work that kind of schedule - but they were not doing actual work -- just on the clock.
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods
Old 05-05-2007, 07:21 AM   #40
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Re: For anyone who has bought the bill of goods

I am a scientist in the private sector. As for the quality and dedication of the people I work with, I think it compares to the government or any other industry...mostly average, some poor and then a few that are stellar. I had typed a short novel about my place of employment but deleted it to save space and figured nobody wanted to hear more of the same complaints.

We ultimately have all the power when it comes to work. We can stay or go. We are all free to leave should the pay or working conditions become unbearable.

Just remember, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence because there more manure over there
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