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11-21-2007, 01:02 PM
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#21 | |
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Recycles dryer sheets
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Posts: 117
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Not very impressive, but that would be much better than the Boomers did. I suspect that a lot of people don't plan/save for retirement because it doesn't occur to them. |
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11-21-2007, 01:18 PM
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#22 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,000
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There are a lot of dim-witted people out there.
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"There is no more dreadful punishment than futile and hopeless labour" - Albert Camus |
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11-24-2007, 09:31 PM
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#23 |
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Recycles dryer sheets
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But at least some baby-boomers will get pensions and Social Security, so they didn't have to plan for retirement as well as Gen Xers.
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11-24-2007, 10:42 PM
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#24 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,358
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Over all was the silence of the wilderness - Sigurd Olsen |
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11-25-2007, 10:53 AM
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#25 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 2,058
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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss - Retired April 2007 @ 50 with COLA'd DB Pension plus Lifetime Medical & Dental Insurance. |
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11-26-2007, 11:48 AM
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#26 | |
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Recycles dryer sheets
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Posts: 117
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Both pensions and social security fund retirees out of the contributions of the workers. You underestimate Gen-X's slacking abilities!  |
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11-26-2007, 11:55 AM
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#27 |
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Recycles dryer sheets
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It seems to me to be like most things in life. What are YOU willing to do to advance the cause of YOUR life? Some are willing to go that extra mile to ensure that their lives are not determined by "chance". Others continue to willingly live in a fantasy world world of "Well... things will work out in the end.... somehow".
Live in the world of fact and reality, and almost anyone will see that saving for retirement is important because pensions are almost gone, SS may not be there, etc. Only through investing, 401k's, your own business, real estate, etc, do you have a chance of succeeding. Live in the fantasy world of "the world owes me something", or "the govt, my folks, my children, or some devine intervention will save me in the future, and you are setting up your life to be ruined. As all things in life... the choice is yours... |
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11-26-2007, 04:35 PM
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#28 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,000
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 Assuming that it is meant to be take seriously, I have difficulty understanding how baby boomers "planned things" so that they would receive SS (which began in the mid-1930s: see History Social Security and Operations - History) or pensions (most company pensions began in the 1940s: see History Pensions - Pension History: United States). Boomers are certainly among the beneficiaries, but they were not the originators. Perhaps many (not all) Gen-Xers can be fairly criticized for not taking adequate steps to build private retirement nesteggs in response to social security's problems, or the decision of many companies to eliminate defined benefit pension plans; but it is difficult to see how Gen-Xers are responsible for those developments.
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"There is no more dreadful punishment than futile and hopeless labour" - Albert Camus |
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11-26-2007, 09:57 PM
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#29 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,358
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But you guys have time on your side and most of you will "get it." Remember, you actually have a huge advantage over us old timers. We had to live through having golden handcuffs chaining us to jobs we often grew to hate (just read this board for unlimited pitiful examples) in order to top off pensions and get retiree health care. With cash balance/portable pension plans, 401K's, decoupling of health care from employers and coupling to government (hopefully), you're free to pursue your careers in and of themselves, and not just a means to retirement. So X'er's, stop whining and go "get 'er done!"
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Over all was the silence of the wilderness - Sigurd Olsen |
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11-26-2007, 11:11 PM
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#30 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,358
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Over all was the silence of the wilderness - Sigurd Olsen |
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11-26-2007, 11:19 PM
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#31 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 2,058
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Heck, I never know what day of the week it is either.....but I never really care!
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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss - Retired April 2007 @ 50 with COLA'd DB Pension plus Lifetime Medical & Dental Insurance. |
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11-26-2007, 11:27 PM
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#32 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,358
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 As soon as I read that Goonie, I looked up at my retirement clock (one of those that reads out in days instead of hours) and sure enough it is Monday. I'll be go to hell....... The hand is just reaching the demarcation between Monday and Tuesday. Gosh, had me fooled! Feels like Sunday night......I really am retired I guess!! And I just proved it to myself. 17 months out of w*rk and I don't know or care what day it is. Oh well, the not having to go to work tomorrow morning is still true!
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Over all was the silence of the wilderness - Sigurd Olsen |
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11-27-2007, 11:23 AM
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#33 | |
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Recycles dryer sheets
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Posts: 177
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I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic. If you were joking, then feel free to ignore this post. However, if you were serious, then read on. In the interest of disclosure, I'm 32 years old, which makes me a gen-X-er. As Milton said, I'm not sure how the Boomers could've "planned" to have Social Security and pensions, since they originated around the time they were born. Additionally, I don't really see how it's a failure of me and my peers to have graduated school into an era of inflated housing prices, higher taxation, and enormous national debt. I'm going to try and state this as non-confrontationally as I can, but I may fail. Boomers got to be born into an era of wealth. The country had no debt, and the economy boomed because of the war. Social Security was solvent, and most jobs of the period offered pensions. These two factors pretty much obviated their need to accumulate any substantial nest eggs. The country's tax rate was low (mostly due to the lack of a national debt and the accompanying interest payments that consume a quarter of the government's current budget) and housing was cheap. My father was able to raise a family of 3 on a single income, and pay off the mortgage to his house in 12 years, all on a blue-collar income working for a tire factory. He's now retired, and living off a generous pension. Does anybody reading this think that such a feat is even remotely possible today? Do you honestly think that it's reasonable to think that a person could pay off a house in 12 years, and support a wife and 3 kids, all on a blue-collar income? I do not believe that is realistic at all, today. Around the time I was born (mid-70's), the country started borrowing money to fund its programs, so it could keep the taxes down. This was nothing more than the boomers borrowing money from their own children. As a result, they got to continue to enjoy low taxes, and spend their money however they wanted. They didn't even have to worry about investing it, because they had company pensions and Social Security to fall back on. Fast-forward to the 90's. My generation graduates college and finds the following: 1) Taxes have skyrocketed, to pay for services that previously had been paid for with debt, to keep taxes artificially low. Boomers are getting older and falling ill, putting even more of a strain on the health-care system. 2) The national debt is through the roof. 25% of all taxes collected by the government are spent simply servicing the interest on the massive national debt, putting us taxpayers in the crippling position of only receiving 75% of the services we're paying for (on the other hand, our parents actually got more than 100% of the services they paid for, since it was largely funded by debt). So not only am I paying for my own services, I'm picking up the tab for my parents' services (with interest) from the 70's and 80's. 3) Housing prices have ballooned. Our parents are enjoying downsizing their housing, giving their savings yet another boost, on the backs of young families like mine who are just trying to find an affordable home. 4) Nobody is offering pensions. The percentage of companies offering lifetime pensions to new employees has plummeted, leaving us responsible for accumulating our own nest egg. So in summary, we have no corporate pensions, are paying off our parents' debt, with mortgages twice the size of our parents' (for the same size house), with less money in our pockets (after taxes) to do it all with. I'm a Gen-X-er, but I'm not apathetic. I'm downright mad. Last edited by kombat; 11-27-2007 at 11:30 AM. |
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11-27-2007, 01:28 PM
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#34 |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,358
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Kombat,
My post was sarcastic, but I'm glad it touched off some discussion......... Each generation bears it's own cross. Each generation bears a generalized description of itself which is not true for many of its members. I'm delighted your dad enjoyed a blue collar career when manufacturing was doing well in our country and could afford lush benefits such as lifetime medical and generous pensions. But, if you haven't noticed, things have changed. Millions of boomers are finding retiree medical benefits being withdrawn or reduced. Pensions are/were being changed to the cash balance format mid-career reducing payouts dramatically. Etc., etc. Remember, most boomers (except for RE types) are just now beginning to retire and are feeling the weight of the changes of the past decade. Since they were "promised" pensions and lifetime medical, since 401k's and IRA's were not available at the beginning of their working lives, many are being caught with their pants around their ankles....... I'm not defending boomers who are unprepared for retirement. I did it the hard way (no big investment wins, no inheritance, lots of long work hours at blaaah factory jobs) and have limited sympathy for those who didn't. But I do recognize that the game has changed in the fourth quarter for many as employers back out of obligations/promises. For Gen Xer's, you carry much of the boomers debt burden and you don't have the promises of lifetime medical and pensions (which are frequently not being kept) which many boomers had, but you do have up front knowledge that you need to do it yourselves. So, as I said in another post, "get 'er done!" You see the task in front of you, the tools (IRA, 401k, 403b, etc.) are available, now it's time to cinch up the harness and pull that plow for a few decades. Stay flexible in your career, take care of yourself and never depend on one employer, plan for tomorrow. BTW, I worked in manufacturing all my life, including years at the blue collar level. I spent most of the last decade closing down factories and off-shoring production to China, Brazil, Singapore and Mexico. I got to lay off hundreds of my former peers leaving their futures in total limbo since they counted on Megacorp for pension/medical. My outlook may be different than yours since you see you dad who successfully dodged the bullet and I see hundreds of former associates who caught it right between the eyes. Again, congrats to you dad for making it through with the tire company. He's one of the lucky ones, as am I and grateful for it.
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Over all was the silence of the wilderness - Sigurd Olsen Last edited by youbet; 11-27-2007 at 01:41 PM. |
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11-27-2007, 03:25 PM
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#35 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,000
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Note to youbet: while I'm glad that your post was not intended to be taken seriously,
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"There is no more dreadful punishment than futile and hopeless labour" - Albert Camus |
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11-27-2007, 03:39 PM
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#36 | |
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 463
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TickTock Rule of Finance: Heavily discount promises of money/benefits to be paid to you in the future. Hmmmm, that's about the fourth time I've posted that. Maybe I should make it my sig? |
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11-27-2007, 11:45 PM
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#37 |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,358
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Yep, maybe you should TickTock. It's a good rule of thumb. I follow it.
And I'll stick to my repetitive song that promised defined benefit pensions and lifetime healthcare aren't always as wonderful as they seem. Often, they turn into golden handcuffs locking miserable employees into a company/occupation/career they truly hate........just look around this board and see all the painful moaning from folks who are about to lose it from the pain of their current jobs, but are golden handcuffed to them. And, even if you like the job you're handcuffed to, what are the chances that the benefit promises won't be withdrawn? Or you'll be laid off before you've vested? Or the company will go out of business? Lighten up Milton buddy. You're gona explode all over your keyboard and monitor one of these days and it will be one heck of a mess to clean up!
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Over all was the silence of the wilderness - Sigurd Olsen |
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11-28-2007, 08:05 AM
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#38 | |
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 177
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My frustration stems from the attitude of a lot of older folks who see today's generation struggling with house payments and living paycheck-to-paycheck, and criticize them for their lifestyle, saying things like "I paid off my house in 10 years, while my wife stayed home and raised 4 kids. How come you can't do the same? You must be lazy." This ignores the realities that a) Houses are much more expensive nowadays, as a proportion of your income; and b) We're taxed at a higher rate. Income taxation rates are far higher than they were in the 60's and 70's, plus we also have the GST, Ontario Health Tax (sorry, "Premium"), capital gains taxes, dividend taxes, and more (some of those may have existed back in the 70's, I'm making some assumptions here) crippling our ability to save and pay our bills. On the other hand, you're right, and my generation should recognize these limitations and prepare for their own future. It frightens me to look around at peers my own age and see them failing to save anything at all for their future, living paycheck to paycheck. When I ask them about their plans for retirement, they don't have any. They spout meaningless, fluffy rhetoric like, "things have a way of working out in the end." They're operating under the mistaken impression that they're currently living as their own parents did (not true, their parents never drove luxury cars or had high-def TV), and that their lives will work out like their parents' did (again, not true, their parents have corporate pensions propping up their retirement - my generation will not). I worry about these people. They're blissfully plodding along, thinking they'll be able to retire just like their parents did, choosing to remain ignorant of the realities of the math. My wife and I do not have kids. Frankly, I don't believe we could afford them. We both work in h |
