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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-14-2006, 04:26 AM   #61
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

Yep

And any pension with a decent cola that would allow one to have a 'core budget.'

Thus allowing male hormones freer rein during youth (early ER) to putz with stocks, travel, golf, surfing - er ah

Was that a question?

heh heh heh heh heh heh - I could be really dangerous with a cola'd pension.
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-14-2006, 06:16 AM   #62
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

Quote:
Not animosity - just jealous that we do have one.
I would go further and say that the politicians are getting people comfortable with the idea of government employees as scapegoats. I dont know how you guys can stay at those jobs for 30 years :P
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-14-2006, 08:21 AM   #63
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

Maddy,

I'm getting out at 27 years, and I agree with your statement(s). There was a time when I actually felt I was contributing something, but the bureacracy has a way of dealing with that kind of feeling.

setab
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-14-2006, 10:52 AM   #64
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

Quote:
Originally Posted by setab
I guess I don't understand the animosity against federal pensions.
It's not the pension by itself-- it's the pension's COLA plus lifetime healthcare earned despite decades of inefficient bureaucratic substandard socialized service while being subsidized by the tax dollars of the hard-working overtaxed wage earners who are just trying to make a living despite having to support the govt loafers and their burdensome unfunded mandates.

I also spent over two decades sucking down my share of those taxpayer dollars and getting many free worldwide fact-finding junkets without ever once firing a nuclear ballistic missile or a warshot.

You would think that the civil-service & military recruiting offices would be overwhelmed with eager candidates.
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-14-2006, 12:08 PM   #65
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

Nords,

Now you're talking politics, not employees, who, as I pointed out, also pay their share of taxes. My experience has shown that most of us are more than willing to put in a day's work for a day's pay, but we are as frustrated by the inefficiency of the bureaucrats as others are. I have not worked inside the belt way, where, I have to admit, the mind set appears to be slightly different, but those of us who have worked "out in the field," try to do our part. My feeling is that form counts for much more than substance these days, but I'm not certain that's unique to the government.

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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-14-2006, 12:37 PM   #66
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

It's not...
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-14-2006, 08:46 PM   #67
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

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Originally Posted by setab
Nords,

Now you're talking politics, not employees, who, as I pointed out, also pay their share of taxes.
Hey, whoa, put down the gun, I'm on your side.

But you asked about animosity toward federal pensions, and that's the thinking behind the answer.

I'm proud of finishing over two decades of military service without ever being stationed inside the Beltway either. I visited, but I tried not to inhale.
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-15-2006, 07:57 AM   #68
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

I'm proud of finishing over two decades of military service without ever being stationed inside the Beltway either. I visited, but I tried not to inhale.



I didn't mean it to sound that way. Sorry. Now that I'm almost a single digit midget, I'm getting soooo sensitive.

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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-15-2006, 08:16 AM   #69
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

I think the public perception about gov pensions is a direct result of the people they've had to deal with. I know we've all met them sitting behind a counter, just counting the days till they can retire while taking out their frustrations on the poor person that happned to show up and ask a simple question or need a problem solved.

Military pensions are something different, I don't know of anyone that would say they that they weren't deserved or well earned.
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-15-2006, 08:37 AM   #70
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outtahere
I think the public perception about gov pensions is a direct result of the people they've had to deal with. I know we've all met them sitting behind a counter, just counting the days till they can retire while taking out their frustrations on the poor person that happned to show up and ask a simple question or need a problem solved.
Anyone remember the biting, short-lived FedEX commercial of many years back poking fun at the postal service? For those of you who don't, two postal ("gummint") employees are sitting behind a customer service window at a post office, discussing when they can retire. One is holding a fly swatter.

As a patron walks up for service, the postal worker behind the window continues to talk to his co-worker, swats at a fly, then turns and slams down the window on the customer, saying "Next window please."

The postal union went ballistic and FedEx pulled the commercial after a few days. But the message the commerical was communicating about government workers certainly resonated with the general public, and not only with regard to the postal service.

(Yes, I know the USPS is no longer an official government agency, but I'm not sure that's widely recognized by John & Mary Q. Public.)

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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-15-2006, 08:45 AM   #71
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

YES! I remember that ad very well and remember thinking boy they've got that right!!! I didn't know they pulled the ad.
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-15-2006, 08:55 AM   #72
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

Wahoo,

Most stereotypes have some basis in reality, but it is exactly that kind of image that makes me see red. *I find that a lot of the people who are willing to fostor that type of a stereotype about federal workers are the same PC micro brains who insist on gender neutral terms such as "personhood" and other similar sillinesses. *Seems inconsistent to me. *You will find thoughtless people and just plain bad employees in every sector. *I have met and worked with some truly fascinating gummit employees during the past 26 plus years and sum uv em have even been real smart. *Of course, there have been the anal orifices too.

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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-15-2006, 09:12 AM   #73
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

Quote:
Originally Posted by setab
Wahoo,

...You will find thoughtless people and just plain bad employees in every sector. I have met and worked with some truly fascinating gummit employees during the past 26 plus years and sum uv em have even been real smart. Of course, there have been the anal orifices too.

setab
No arguement here.

I think one key factor in the image problem govt. workers have with the general public is the tendancy of human beans to remember their bad experiences much longer and more vididly than the good ones.

It takes a lot of "attaboys" to erase just one "aww sh*t".


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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-15-2006, 09:15 AM   #74
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

There is also the perception out there that they can't be fired so they have no incentive to do a good job.
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-15-2006, 09:26 AM   #75
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

And that perception is wrong. I have represented the government in a lot of hearings that resulted in the termination of employees. However, I agree, that is the public perception. Interestingly enough, some of my private sector counterparts tell me it is harder in the private sector to get rid of someone. Also, there tend to be a lot of "buyouts" to settle private sector dismissals. You don't see those as much in the government workforce and you sure don't see big bucks, even when you do see them.

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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-15-2006, 09:32 AM   #76
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

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I think the public perception about gov pensions is a direct result of the people they've had to deal with. *I know we've all met them sitting behind a counter, just counting the days till they can retire while taking out their frustrations on the poor person that happned to show up and ask a simple question or need a problem solved. *
Dont forget their beady little eyes. I think this is part of the problem (people want services but they dont want to pay for them). They could solve this by charging more user fees (you come in and ask a stupid question that is answered in factsheet in the lobby), you get charged 5 bucks. * *
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-15-2006, 09:46 AM   #77
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

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Originally Posted by setab
And that perception is wrong. I have represented the government in a lot of hearings that resulted in the termination of employees. However, I agree, that is the public perception. Interestingly enough, some of my private sector counterparts tell me it is harder in the private sector to get rid of someone. Also, there tend to be a lot of "buyouts" to settle private sector dismissals. You don't see those as much in the government workforce and you sure don't see big bucks, even when you do see them.

setab
Good luck in convincing that it's easier to terminate a government employee than a public sector employee. The "buyouts" are for top management. A regular employee would get a serverance package, such as one-week pay for each year of service.
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-15-2006, 10:17 AM   #78
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

There are no such "severence packages" in the federal sector. We take their badges and get an address for the last check.

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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-15-2006, 11:16 AM   #79
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

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There are no such "severence packages" in the federal sector. We take their badges and get an address for the last check.

setab
That's also true in small companies.
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE
Old 02-15-2006, 11:34 AM   #80
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Re: Government Pensions and FIRE

Spanky,

It's not that I totally disagree with the perception. We ought to terminate a lot more people than we do, but unfortunately, most of those who deserive it the most are elected and so our hands are tied.

setab
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