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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job
Old 09-18-2006, 04:58 PM   #21
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job

I gave up a job to move 1500 miles away for 25% less pay and fewer and much less lucrative benefits. The current company has no pension plan, no post retirement medical benefits, no post retirement stock plans and small match 401k plan. We sold the land we were going to build our retirement house on that cost us 3 years to design. Why did we do that? To be close to my sons and to be in an area that was less expensive yet had more to offer us in our lifestyle and for a job where what I could do was valued and respected.

The path to my FIRE plan was shifted by outside forces but I don't regret the move. Sometimes you have to do what makes the most sense to you despite the short term negative consequences.
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job
Old 09-19-2006, 08:32 AM   #22
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job

Ah yes, the "face time" discussion with the Boss. Just needed to point out that:

1. I don't take 20 minute coffee breaks in the cafeteria 3-4 times/day

2. I don't take 10-15 minute smoke breaks 5-6 times/day.

3. I will work the needed time to get the job done by the needed time.

Didn't say it (but it's true): "Face time, is a waste of time." I had too many rentals to service at night ... so I hit the door and turned the key at 5:01pm.

An extra hour per day in mega corp would have DELAYed FIRE by years!
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job
Old 09-19-2006, 12:36 PM   #23
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job

Quote:
Originally Posted by tryan
"Face time, is a waste of time."*
I imagine that's pretty much true today.* I can say that over the years of my MegaCorp career, folks willing and able to stay longer frequently harvested some benefits.* It was common for brainstorming discussions about next year's business plan, talent needs of the team, potential places to locate the next building, etc., etc. to occur after work.* Managers frequently sought informal inputs and these sessions developed spontaneously after the "4:30 PM sharp" folks were tail lights down the driveway.* Not surprisingly, the folks regularly involved in these spontaneous discussions, and who were otherwise equally qualified, seemed to progress in their careers more rapidly.

I'm not saying it's the right thing or that it even happens today, but it happened then........
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job
Old 09-19-2006, 04:36 PM   #24
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job

Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
...* Not surprisingly, the folks regularly involved in these spontaneous discussions, and who were otherwise equally qualified, seemed to progress in their careers more rapidly.

I'm not saying it's the right thing or that it even happens today, but it happened then........
Ditto from what I have seen in three Mega corps I have been with and the couple DW has worked for too. Face time is "required" for promotions. It shows you are "one of them" and it moves you into a different group from the others who are quick to hit the bricks at 5:00 pm. I did my share of it including golf with the boss on weekends, dinners with bosses, "volunteer" charity work with other company folks in your "spare time" and working some weekends. I don't do that anymore as my interest in advancement is zero and they have finally stopped asking me about changing jobs. I let the younger and ambitious ones do the face time. I did my face time and I received some financial payback for it.

At some point you have to decide what you want in your career and then do what is needed to make it happen. The trick is to not forget why you are doing it. The goal is FIRE and if a little face time shortens the trip to FIRE or makes it a more lucrative one then so be it.
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job
Old 09-19-2006, 06:39 PM   #25
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR
Ditto from what I have seen in three Mega corps I have been with and the couple DW has worked for too.* Face time is "required" for promotions.
Depending on the company, and what you do, it may be required to keep the job. I know two women who, from all accounts, ended up leaving their managerial jobs cause they couldn't put in the expected 10-12 hour daily "face time" for their companies...
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job
Old 09-20-2006, 11:54 AM   #26
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR
I did my face time and I received some financial payback for it.*

At some point you have to decide what you want in your career and then do what is needed to make it happen.* The trick is to not forget why you are doing it.* The goal is FIRE and if a little face time shortens the trip to FIRE or makes it a more lucrative one then so be it.
Yeah, agreed.* And I put in my share too.* It happened while our division was expanding very rapidly.* Sales increased more than 2X several years in a row.* Accomodating the growth required a lot of planning and out of the box thinking regarding everything from recruiting to supplier development to land acquisition to building layouts.* I voluntarily got involved and spent a lot of uncompensated evening and weekend time.* It turned out to be a smart thing to do from the perspective of getting to FIRE.

FIRE is a great goal and sometimes you have to take some risks to get there.* Getting the right degree from the right school, doing "extra" at work, LBYM, starting a business.........* Hey, any of these things can pay off or not pay off.* You pay your money, you take your chance.* *

BTW, FIRE is great!* DW says that my transformation from being "Mr type A - 60 hours per week" to "Mr Mellow" over the last three months of RE is nothing short of amazing.* Who said you can't teach an old dog new tricks?



* *
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job
Old 09-22-2006, 11:12 AM   #27
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job

I put in many years at an agency that I thought I'd retire from. Then came a wave of hiring corporate lawyers, a new director who decided to rescind the no layoff policy, cut every corner possible to reduce debt and take on bonds with lower interest rates. Many of us found ourselves "restructured" (the synonym of choice by my former agency's lawyers). I spent 11 months out of work, wiped out savings, etc.

I now make about $15,000 less than I made before (not that I made a hell of a lot there either!).

I used to have a 7 minute commute...now it is 1 hour.

HOWEVER, I wouldn't change a thing...well...maybe the commute!

I was miserable as hell the last 1.5 years in my old job...micromanagered to death by someone who admitted she didn't know anything about what my team did...but she sure as hell could figure out how to do it better and tie up the entire team in meetings. The metings required us salary hacks to work 60-70 hours a week just to get the real work done. I worked with a team of folks who were VERY committed to the work being done. Thus the willingness to do the extra hours was not out of fear. Just prior to the time the micromanager (and self-proclaimed reformer) took over, I had the best supervisor of my career. She knew how to plug folks in, saw the big picture, and was one hell of an aid in addition to being able to communicate between the hierarchy, outside agencies, and the team.

But I wouldn't change it. I now have another micromanager, but one that knows the work needs both sides. I'd still kill to work for the good supe from my last agency, but this one, with it's lesser pay, longer commute, etc... STILL doesn't make me feel as crappy as the last 1.5 years at the last job. I used to be ok every morning until I walked in and as soon s I hit the elevator button thought to myself, "What the hell am I doing?"

I still plan on leaving when I lock in retirement months (unless a tremendous opportunity arises), but I'm much happier now. Having been through the firestorm and one petty micromanager trying to cuk the joy of life out of folks, work just isn't worth that. Follow your bliss, reshape your FIRE plans, etc. FIRE doesn't make enduring misery worth it. You could end up with a stroke...won't THAT be nice to take into your FIRE plans.



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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job
Old 09-26-2006, 08:38 AM   #28
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job

Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
I imagine that's pretty much true today. I can say that over the years of my MegaCorp career, folks willing and able to stay longer frequently harvested some benefits. It was common for brainstorming discussions about next year's business plan, talent needs of the team, potential places to locate the next building, etc., etc. to occur after work. Managers frequently sought informal inputs and these sessions developed spontaneously after the "4:30 PM sharp" folks were tail lights down the driveway. Not surprisingly, the folks regularly involved in these spontaneous discussions, and who were otherwise equally qualified, seemed to progress in their careers more rapidly.

I'm not saying it's the right thing or that it even happens today, but it happened then........
So the point is either 1) leave early but do something productive for yourself or 2) put in the face time and advance. In either case, you're putting in extra work above and beyond the call of duty. In either case, you'll (hopefully) reap the rewards.

BTW, I'm comtemplating working for a consumer products company. The company information session had 8 hot women and 1 guy vs. investment banks where the ratio is usually 8 guys to 2 women. I'm sure that the money will be a lot less and a consumer products company, but then I can use the after hours to manage some rentals and, heck, maybe even have a life.
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job
Old 09-26-2006, 01:44 PM   #29
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job

Don't assume that the hours of a consumer products company will be 'reasonable'. Been there, done that - have a closet full of product to prove it!
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job
Old 09-26-2006, 06:39 PM   #30
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Re: Has someone taked a lot less for a better job

Oh, yeah? So will it be a "Gamble" to join one of these companies? How bad were the hours for you, Brat?
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