Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-25-2016, 02:51 PM   #21
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,401
I think your best course is to make your primary argument unsuitability... selling a $500k policy to a 25 yo with no dependents... while it is not as egregious as the OPs case it is pretty bad. And have the tax misrepresentation be another factor in your complaint.

Just for sh*ts and giggles I went to the AXA website. They have a "How much life insurance do you need?" calculator with three questions. 1) What is your current age? Input: 25 2) What is your income? Input: $40k 3)Value of other unpaid services you perform? Input: $0

Output: You need $707,120 of life insurance. WTF

I guess they never think to ask if there are any dependents.
__________________

__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-25-2016, 02:56 PM   #22
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
I think your best course is to make your primary argument unsuitability... selling a $500k policy to a 25 yo with no dependents... while it is not as egregious as the OPs case it is pretty bad. And have the tax misrepresentation be another factor in your complaint.

Just for sh*ts and giggles I went to the AXA website. They have a "How much life insurance do you need?" calculator with three questions. 1) What is your current age? Input: 25 2) What is your income? Input: $40k 3)Value of other unpaid services you perform? Input: $0

Output: You need $707,120 of life insurance. WTF

I guess they never think to ask if there are any dependents.
Thanks -- this is helpful. They claim that I agreed that the contract was suitable in purchasing the policy but I never filled out that portion of the contract -- the sales broker filled the suitability section out for me (they admit the contract was prefilled) and I do not recall ever seeing that specific part of the contract before signing the contract.
__________________

__________________
diamondinterlude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 03:21 PM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondinterlude View Post
.....What do you mean about misrepresenting tax benefits but not the policy? ...
If they misrepresented the policy (how it operates, surrender charges, COI charges, expense charges, loads, etc.) to me that would be more actionable than if they misrepresented the tax benefits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondinterlude View Post
Thanks -- this is helpful. They claim that I agreed that the contract was suitable in purchasing the policy but I never filled out that portion of the contract -- the sales broker filled the suitability section out for me (they admit the contract was prefilled) and I do not recall ever seeing that specific part of the contract before signing the contract.
It is their responsibility to assess suitability, not yours... how would you know... they are the alleged experts and it is their responsibility.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 03:32 PM   #24
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
If they misrepresented the policy (how it operates, surrender charges, COI charges, expense charges, loads, etc.) to me that would be more actionable than if they misrepresented the tax benefits.



It is their responsibility to assess suitability, not yours... how would you know... they are the alleged experts and it is their responsibility.
Got it. I think basically what happened is that they misled me as to how it would work if I wanted to withdraw and use the money in the policy in my middle life. I would not have purchased it if I knew the gains were going to be taxed as income -- I only thought it was a good investment because it seemed tax-sheltered, which, as I later found out, was a total misrepresentation.
__________________
diamondinterlude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 03:59 PM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,401
The VL product is tax-deferred (you don't pay taxes on any gains until you surrender the contract)... it can be tax-free if you keep it until you die but the big disadvantage (beyond high fees and paying for life insurance coverage that you don't need) is that if you surrender that gains are taxed at ordinary rates and not preferential capital gains tax rates.

For the mutual fund that you wanted the dividends are taxed when received but at preferential rates, and when you sell you are taxed on the gain but again, at preferential rates as long as you have held the lot for more than a year. The mutual fund that you desired was probably more suitable but not as lucrative for the sale rep which is why they steered you into the variable life contract.

Scum buckets.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2016, 12:53 PM   #26
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
The VL product is tax-deferred (you don't pay taxes on any gains until you surrender the contract)... it can be tax-free if you keep it until you die but the big disadvantage (beyond high fees and paying for life insurance coverage that you don't need) is that if you surrender that gains are taxed at ordinary rates and not preferential capital gains tax rates.

For the mutual fund that you wanted the dividends are taxed when received but at preferential rates, and when you sell you are taxed on the gain but again, at preferential rates as long as you have held the lot for more than a year. The mutual fund that you desired was probably more suitable but not as lucrative for the sale rep which is why they steered you into the variable life contract.

Scum buckets.
Thank you for this -- it's reassuring to hear on some level even though AXA seems to be digging in their heels and refusing to admit that my claims have merit. I will continue to pursue my claim and hopefully something will change. Since I've filed a complaint with the state regulatory agency already, should I still try to contact them to speak to them directly?
__________________
diamondinterlude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2016, 01:03 PM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,401
Unless you just sent it recently, I would call to follow up to see if they received your complaint, where it stands and if they need any more information from you and see what they have to say.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 05:31 PM   #28
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8
Would like to post a quick update here for everyone who assisted me and also for future generations of people who may come across the thread. After a long process (several months), AXA finally offered to settle the dispute by canceling my policy and refunding all premiums paid. To those who may find themselves in a similar situation, my advice to you is to gather as much written evidence that you can find about what the broker told you. Do research on misrepresentation, unsuitability and failure to supervise and above all, don't give up. File a complaint with FINRA, file a complaint with your state insurance regulator, file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, file a complaint with the CFPB, write to the CEO, write to the media, and press your case. I actually believe that it was the BBB complaint that got the job done, which I was a little surprised about. They are depending on your going away, but don't let them wear you out. If one complaint doesn't seem to be going anywhere, file another one and eventually they may decide you are not worth the trouble.
__________________
diamondinterlude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2016, 12:15 AM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Sunset's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,708
Thanks for the update, it's nice to have closure on issues
__________________
Sunset is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2016, 03:02 AM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondinterlude View Post
After a long process (several months), AXA finally offered to settle the dispute by canceling my policy and refunding all premiums paid.
Wow, congratulations. You must be have been a real PITA thorn in their side. It's great to hear--thanks for following up with this post.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2016, 06:37 AM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
Wow, congratulations. You must be have been a real PITA thorn in their side. It's great to hear--thanks for following up with this post.
+1 For them to refund all premiums you paid is a huge win for you... they much have figured that the agent really screwed the pooch in the sale. Congratulations!
__________________

__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
life insurance, variable investment


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why Cancelling An Existing Whole Life Or Universal Life Policy May Be A Bad Idea mickeyd FIRE and Money 8 04-21-2013 12:26 PM
To Cut The Deficit We Must Cut Large Categories haha FIRE and Money 21 01-09-2011 08:10 AM
Stock Market Losses vs. Home Equity Losses stephenandrew FIRE and Money 17 03-03-2009 07:21 PM
Legal Advice - Old Life Insurance Policy F-One Other topics 3 05-02-2007 10:56 AM
Drop Adjustable Life Insurance Policy? kjpliny FIRE and Money 5 03-10-2007 11:26 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:18 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.