Help me save yahoo finance...

[justin]

Interesting note: Kiyosaki's latest piece on Yahoo Finance was focused on mutual funds. Kiyosaki, for the first time ever, was correct. Costs matter, and avoid the high ER mutual funds. Pick index funds because they are much cheaper.

I guess his ghost writer finally did some research.

 

[psullivan]

Hi, I just signed into this site for the first time, I just was wondering what is on the web and quick tips to make money. I do think Robert Kiyosaki is a bit watered down for many informed folks, but I think he is pretty good. He is way better than many of the other booksellers out there. I bet the seminars suck though, I haven't experienced those yet. I think that Robert Kiyosaki is good for most of the uninformed Americans out there, and I disagree with this blog. Is there a site for that idiot Fleckinstein, or Bill Gross, or Suze Orman, I haven't got there yet, but they suck!!!!!!

 

[psullivan]

I like your idea WAB, but I disagree with Justin about removing five steps out of the plan. And I think you started too late. You can buy a three flat, for the same amount of credit it takes to buy just one condo. I had about $20,000 from living at home my parents, saving from a $36,000 job for a year or two. I had good/excellent credit about 725ish (cause it fluctuates) and bought one three flat 100% loaned out. I could have lived in it, but I stayed home and bought a second three flat really quick. Everything was going very well. (Things have changed for me truthfully, and I am really stretching in the last two or three months, because I am converting the units to condos, so I may have went too big spending 20-30 thousand to fix up the units). But I am only 26. I bought the buildings 14 months and 8 months ago, and its possible I may make like 300-400 thousand. However because of the possible housing bubble, I may not be able to sell, and I will be bankrupt as heck. The huge price change in my collective properties, is because of rapid genrification in the areas of Chicago I bought in, and my decision to sub-divide one the properties into condos and sell into the craze. So hopefully this will work out, because I will be one big loser if I am wrong. Good luck dreamers, and go big and fail young if need be.

 

[justin]

I like your idea WAB, but I disagree with Justin about removing five steps out of the plan.

Hey, if Kiyosaki can give an incomplete, barely comprehensible approach to making money and getting rich quick, why not follow his lead and sell a brazillion books doing so. If you put all ten steps in your first book, you can't sell the next 17 in the series! We're about making money off of suckers here, not providing honest, useful advice.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Hey, if Kiyosaki can give an incomplete, barely comprehensible approach to making money and getting rich quick, why not follow his lead and sell a brazillion books doing so.  If you put all ten steps in your first book, you can't sell the next 17 in the series!  We're about making money off of suckers here, not providing honest, useful advice.

The key is to make hard work sound easy, knowing full well that when people actually try to do what you suggest, it turns out to be more difficult than they thought.

Health clubs do an amazing job of this...and they get monthly revenue from members who don't show up after a couple of months. Just wait until January. The gyms will be crowded with New Years Resolutioners, who by late-February will be gone (but will still have to pay for the 12-month, 24-month or 36-month membership at $50 a month).

 

[Eagle43]

Health clubs do an amazing job of this...and they get monthly revenue from members who don't show up after a couple of months.  Just wait until January.  The gyms will be crowded with New Years Resolutioners, who by late-February will be gone (but will still have to pay for the 12-month, 24-month or 36-month membership at $50 a month).

I always joke that they'll be gone by the Super Bowl.  They do tend to fill up the fitness club, making it a little crowded for the regulars, but not too long. Two months, at most.

 

[free4now]

After reading this thread, I decided it would be fun to attend the free "Donald Trump Way to Wealth Seminar" (http://www.trumpinstitute.com/ ) this afternoon and see what these things are like in person.

Here's the email I wrote to John T Reed about my experience.

I just attended a free "Donald Trump Way to Wealth Seminar" (trumpreg.com, http://www.trumpinstitute.com/ )and thought you might be interested in what I saw. In particular you might want to consider your "recommended" status for trump on your guru list.

The seminar was of course a sell for their "Trump Institute", a 2 day course with 6 months of followup support for $1499. The presenter was the polished and spunky Rick Wiseman who portrayed himself as a successful real estate wheeler dealer, who said he owned 31 rental properties (sold 16 for "vertical breakup", and kept 15).

It seems the course is focussed on buying and selling real estate. But he also mentioned making money from "government contracts", and "vertical breakups"

Here are some things that seemed not quite above board:

- The TV commercials advertising this seminar made me believe Trump would be there, but he wasn't and apparently never is. He probably never actually said he'd be there but I'm a pretty skeptical person and I didn't have much skepticism about whether he would be there.

- Rick really tried to sell this as something Trump is doing as a public service and that the $1499 registration is just to make people have a stake in succeeding. Rick said that it costs more to run the Trump Institute than they can make off the $1499 registrations! I wouldn't be surprised if this literally means that they have to sell you more stuff after you've paid the registration

- He showed a pic the real estate office he used to have with his name Wiseman on the sign, and said that back then he didn't know that he could have the US government pay for that sign just by filling out a form, and that he could have the guv pay for his office equipment and 1/3 of the secretary's salary just by filling out a form.

- He said everyone should own not rent. "There's no reason to rent in the richest nation in the world". He mentions how stupid he was for renting his real estate agency office.

- He said he doesn't own anything himself because that would be like "painting a bullseye on your back saying sue me". Then he went on to list the various ways of protecting yourself like S Corps, C Corps, LLC, LLP, trusts. I remembered the Kiyosaki article where you mentioned that usually owning things yourself is the best strategy. And when I did a search on the Salt Lake City assessor's site, I saw a property apparently owned by him

- He talked about having the government buy him $62k worth of new stained glass windows for a historical property he owned (just for filling out the form), and showed off how beautiful they were. He later told us that beautiful historical property in Salt Lake City, UT was where he lived. I am skeptical that the guv would buy him windows with no catches.


Anyway, I'm not coming away thinking highly of Trump's advice or ethics, but I do think he's a good businessman. There were about a dozen seminars like this in my area (SF Bay Area), and at mine about 400-500 people attended. It looked like 50-60 or so people signed up for the $1499 course. So they're grossing a half million or more from just our area.

 

[free4now]

I'd like to run a seminar on "How to take advantage of people seeking no money down properties". The target audience would of course be people who got burned by the "no money down" gurus.

 

[maddythebeagle]

hey, Kiyosaki was recently on PBS and as every good liberal knows, everything on PBS has to be full of facts.

 

[Nords]

hey, Kiyosaki was recently on PBS and as every good liberal knows, everything on PBS has to be full of facts.

Watching him "blow up" over the last decade, it's a good thing that he's rich and has no trouble getting health insurance...

 

[MooreBonds]

- He talked about having the government buy him $62k worth of new stained glass windows for a historical property he owned (just for filling out the form), and showed off how beautiful they were. He later told us that beautiful historical property in Salt Lake City, UT was where he lived. I am skeptical that the guv would buy him windows with no catches.

Some interesting observations you made. However, one comment about the stained glass windows.

He probably is correct that he "just filled out a form" for the stained glass. What he did was play off the interpretation of the noun "form". He used the generic term, which (to most people) assumes that if you hear "form", it implies one page. However, the proper noun implies a specific form (like IRS Form XXX), which could very well be several pages with attachments.

When developers take over run down buildings and spruce them up to make them usable again, they often receive various tax (and other) credits to offset the cost of refurbishing the area. So, he probably bought a run down, (possibly) abandoned building, bought various items to renovate it, and now lives in it. He could have received 62k+ in all of the various credits, and said that his windows were 'paid for' by the gov't (tax credits).

Of course, the way he presents it is at the very least unethical. Unfortunately, he does have decent lawyers that know the difference bewteen "unethical" and "outright fraud"...

 

[Freddie]

Hey you all can love him or hate him. But the one item I pulled from reading his books that you need to create your own skill to make money. No one will do it for you. The bottom line is Robert or Bob jump starts the creative person in you. If you are looking for someone to take you under their wing and show you the ropes is far and few between. I really do not care if his story line is true or fiction. If you read his books to find answers, then all of us would be reading text books on the college level, which most of us slept on. His books are written to get your creative wheels turning. If you have not stayed up all night trying to provide a solution to any situation, then you have not started to give anything your full effort. Since reading his book, six years ago (which I read in a day), I have taken part in building three companies from the bottom and I am in the process of laying the ground work to start two more companies. Honestly I spent most of life sitting around believing someone owed me money because I had a four year degree. No one owes you anything, you need to earn it.

What is the definition of luck?

 

[CCdaCE]

So you were sitting around, waiting for ideas, waiting to do something with yourself until you read Kiyosaki?

-CC

 

[Southpaw]

I enjoy reading his columns only because he has, shall we say, a different take on a lot of things.

Would I stop contributing to my 401K because he says so? No. Abandon investing in stocks? No.

I fear he may be correct, however, in his forecast about the dollar's future worth.

 

[brewer12345]

I fear he may be correct, however, in his forecast about the dollar's future worth.

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while...

 

[peggy]

<snip>
Since reading his book, six years ago (which I read in a day), I have taken part in building three companies from the bottom and I am in the process of laying the ground work to start two more companies.
<snip>

I just have to ask -- why do you need five companies?

 

[Freddie]

Each company has it's own purpose.

First business, (entertainment company $60k gross sales annually) I help start has a total of seven partners.

The second business, (holds personal property that is rent and breeds livestock $25 gross sales annually) has three partners.

The third business(professional firm $850k gross sales annually) has two partners.

The fourth business (financial firm) was launched less than thirty days ago already has three partners and I expect to have 10 additional partners every twelve months for the next three years.

The fifth business is at the brain storming stage which could have as many as five to six partners.

Oh, I forgot one. The sixth business will be lauched Jan 2006 for the sole purpose of directing profits of $10k plus annually into an ira. You could say it's a benefit of being a partner in the professional firm.

I guess it's obvious, I enjoy challenges. Why dwell on a negative situations when you could be using your energy to create positive outcomes for you.

For instance, the last ten years I have worked at the professional firm and this past summer I purchased a percentage of the business. With the professional firm we do no advertise, it is all word of mouth. Client's seek us out for our services. I stepped up to the challenge and mastered multiple skills. The most important one - self confidents in my abilities.

Because of these skills, I am able to apply them in other business opportunities that will enable me learn new skills. Hence the reason for the first company. Try going from people knocking down your door without spending a dime in advertisement to a business (entertainment) where you are competing for peoples entertainment dollars. Because we produce summer events we competing against amusement parks, professional baseball teams, country clubs, theaters, etc. I am marketing and advertising my business asking them to spend their money at function and not somewhere else. Big mind set change from no advertisement and people beating down your door to spending money you don't have to suade people to come to your event. The second business holds assets of the first company (asset protection) inaddition to breeding livestock.

Now I take my skills from the professional firm and apply them to the first and second company I can create my ads using radio, tv & newspapers. In addition I hdad to become a sales person selling advertising to local business to help cover the cost of the event. New skills learned, how to play nicely with others (partners\vendors\customers) and the business of marketing\advertising. If I never took the chance, I would not have gained knowledge.

The fourth company was luanched because I realized I have the ability to attract other peoples money and investment these funds legaly that would generate a better return over a long period of time than their current investments. In addition to that, I have created a system that enables people to track their finances monthly\annually and allows them to compare\evaluate against the goals they set. Basically grade themselves.

The fifth company will be in the form of the education field.

The sixth company relates directly to a new income stream that we created in the third company that will allow the partners to save additional funds above the annually contribution amount for infiniti in our roth ira's. Basically the money will cease when we sell the entity or have our partnership position purchased.

Like an old wiseman once told me, you learn how money works in your twenties, plant the seeds in your thirties, tend to your seeds in your forties and bear the fruits of your seeds in your fifties. I guess you can not have to many seeds (income streams).

 

[Mr._johngalt]

The second business, (holds personal property that is rent and breeds livestock $25 gross sales annually) has three partners.

You need more than that to buy a goat around here.

JG

 

[Gone4Good]

Client's seek us out for our services. I stepped up to the challenge and mastered multiple skills. The most important one - self confidents in my abilities.

People pay you for your "self confidence"?

Oh, I get it . . . you're a confidence man. Makes perfect sense.

 

[d]

everything on PBS has to be full of facts.

full of what?

[Moderator edit: quote fix.]

 

[peggy]

Each company has it's own purpose.

<snip>

I guess you can not have to many seeds (income streams).

Good luck. I do mean that honestly, even if my skepticism meter is redlining.

 

[PsyopRanger]

So after seven pages here is what I got….

1. People here don’t like Kiyosaki because he is a marketer and sells products to those less knowledgeable in investing.

2. Even though some of his “knowledge” is correct, people still don’t like him.

3. He doesn’t tell you how to invest, but sells “motivational” books

4. Kiyosaki preaches investing in 3 areas: Stocks, Real Estate and Business

5. He doesn’t like mutual funds because of high fees and high 12b1 fees from financial advisors, but he does recommend index funds.

6. People here who have played his game say it is a good tool for teaching people about LBYM and basic investing but $200 is too much to spend on a game that teaches this.

7. David Bach is a better author because he tells you to put down the latte and invest in your 401k.

8. Suze Orman is a little better because at least she teaches LBYM

9. According to some, buying real estate with little money down is bad or is a scam.

10. While many people here practice some of the same principles that Kiyosaki is trying to teach, he is still bad because he sells books, has seminars, and is on infomercials.


Here is my 2 cents.
Every author is trying to sell books and products.
Never take all your knowledge from one source, diversify your knowledge base.
Most people won’t start investing until they are motivated by something.
What is wrong with stocks, real estate and business?
What is wrong with index funds and not buying them from financial advisors?
A game that can teach people LBYM and the investing skills that most never learn in their lifetime? It should be in every middle school.
I like David Bach too, he is simple.
I think Suze and Kiyosaki are both trying to sell books and advice.
Buying real estate (primary or other) is most peoples way to FIRE and no mortgage, I wouldn’t bet the farm on a “No Money Down” apartment complex in Bora Bora though.
Be leery of anyone offering a free ride

Lance

 

[laurence]

I don't like Kiyosaki because he is a liar. How do I know this?

1. He speaks of being a graduate of the Naval Academy even though public records show he was a Merchant Marine.

2. He speaks of getting average returns of 20% a month, even though if you extrapolate that over the period of time he's supposedly been getting that, his current NW would be greater than the United States GDP.

3. He speaks of being a real estate mogul, yet public records show he only purchased two properties before he started doing seminars.

4. When cornerned on a T.V. interview with proof that "Rich Dad" doesn't exist, he blew up and said, "It's just a metaphor." - despite all his little folksy stories about walking along the beach with him, etc.

5. He contradicts himself too many times to count. He's slammed index investing, and he's endorsed it, you can find a counterargument by him for just about everything he's boosted, except for his mindless, useless platitudes about "think outside the box!" "rise to the challenge!" "Don't settle!".

If you like him, great. But it's evident you would have succeeded without him. I don't see evidence of anyone getting anything from him except a $2,000 seminar bill. I happened to stay in a hotel where one of his clones were having a seminar. Senior citizens in wheelchairs, walkers, oxygen masks etc. being "helped" into the ballroom buy guys in Armani suits with hands free microphones attached to their heads, thumping motivational music playing in the background. Sick.

 

[wildcat]

I don't know Freddie. I tend to value cash flow over revenue no matter how may business ventures I try my hand at

 

[Nords]

1. People here don’t like Kiyosaki because he is a marketer and sells products to those less knowledgeable in investing.

Well, the reason I don't like him is that he's a liar. There's a reason that he's a Hawaii expat who rarely returns to the state.

2. Even though some of his “knowledge” is correct, people still don’t like him.

Another way to look at it would be to not like him because most of his "knowledge" & advice is incorrect. To my knowledge he's the only author who advocates consulting one's pet cat before making a business decision.

3. He doesn’t tell you how to invest, but sells “motivational” books

I think he does both. I believe he'd parade down Wall Street in his underwear if he thought it'd motivate more people to invest in his books.

4. Kiyosaki preaches investing in 3 areas: Stocks, Real Estate and Business

Well, you got me there. I know he's written a book that's highly critical of education, so he probably doesn't invest in that.

5. He doesn’t like mutual funds because of high fees and high 12b1 fees from financial advisors, but he does recommend index funds.

Got me there, too. I wonder if his seminars advocate low-cost index funds & ETFs. How much does Jack Bogle charge for that advice? Warren Buffett? Whatta buncha losers.

6. People here who have played his game say it is a good tool for teaching people about LBYM and basic investing but $200 is too much to spend on a game that teaches this.

I've played it, and it's a pretty good game. (It's oversimplified but the people with whom I played it were, regrettably, plenty challenged.) If it's such a good game and he's such a good businessman & investor, you would think that he'd be able to find a price point where he can sell a couple million copies (like Monopoly) and make even more money for himself. Imagine if it was mass-produced and sold for $19.99 (alongside Tickle Me Elmo Extreme) this holiday season. But I don't think the Parker Brothers are laying awake at night worrying about the Kiyosaki threat.

7. David Bach is a better author because he tells you to put down the latte and invest in your 401k.

Phew, from Kiyosaki to David Bach. Is that like going from 1 to 2 on a scale of 10?

8. Suze Orman is a little better because at least she teaches LBYM

Geez, now we're at 1.5.

9. According to some, buying real estate with little money down is bad or is a scam.

Could be that the meetings & "educational materials" they're selling are a scam. They're selling investors the materials that they could find out on their own, and even hiring a personal tutor to read the book to them would be cheaper than a "training seminar".

I think buying real estate with little money down is a good idea. I think profiting from teaching people is a good idea. I think exploiting people's ignorance is a bad idea.

10. While many people here practice some of the same principles that Kiyosaki is trying to teach, he is still bad because he sells books, has seminars, and is on infomercials.

Nah-- it's because he's a liar.

But your "2 cents" conclusions are good!