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Old 01-22-2009, 10:00 PM   #41
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Good deal. As I said, your father is a good man, and he is willing to go back to work to earn a living. I really think all will be well.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:00 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Bestwifeever View Post
You do not owe them anything
Americans are the only people who believe this. Perhaps that is why so many young Americans refuse to reproduce. It just looks like a bad deal all around.

Another symptom of a dying civilization.

Ha
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:07 AM   #43
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Americans are the only people who believe this.
"Only" is a little over-reaching. I know a lot of English and Australians who feel the same.

I've had conversations with some Japanese people who resent having to be responsible for their parents. Especially wives of first born sons.

I don't have kids (yes, ha, I have "refused"! ) but I would hate to think of them resenting me for having to take care of me.
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:03 AM   #44
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I didn't say no one owes their parents anything--I don't think this particular young man owes his parents anything right now as he looks to begin his life. His parents are working and supporting themselves at 54 and 56, making $90K a year, rebuilding their savings, and apparently in good health. OP hopes to start his first professional job for a great salary and should be okay but he has not yet passed the bar, and he will be the first hired if the company needs to cut corners, and he has $150K in student loans to pay back.

Why does he owe his 54 and 56 year old parents at this point? To me, it would be better for all for him to establish himself and when the time is appropriate to help them out when they need his help. He sounds like a good young man who for some reason is carrying some guilt for his parents not being more financially secure.
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:09 AM   #45
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"Only" is a little over-reaching. I know a lot of English and Australians who feel the same.

I've had conversations with some Japanese people who resent having to be responsible for their parents. Especially wives of first born sons.

I don't have kids (yes, ha, I have "refused"! ) but I would hate to think of them resenting me for having to take care of me.
Oh-oh! I appear to be stepping on people's feet. People that I really like and respect.

Agree, only is often a dangerous word. As regards the word "refuse", I didn't intend it as being a criticism. But if people describe themselves (sometimes with some feeling) as "childfree", and they have the physical and financial ability to have children, I thought refuse was really the most accurate and respectful verb. (And Shiny, again this does not apply to you. It is taken from other discussions on this board, over the years.) As you see, I didn't imply or say these childfree couples are selfish, only that they may have accurately sniffed out the way things have come to be and want no part of it.

Also there is no implication that your parents or any other parents should resent their care of their children based on whether or not those children have children. The social obligation to which I referred is not to reproduce-(Go forth and multiply is a little strong for my mandate ), but really was a comment on the posted phrase "do not owe them anything." Now I see that what was meant was that in this particular situation the OP doesn't owe his parents anything. I can't coment on that. It does seem that Daddy was a little rash and perhaps needs some tough love, and Momma perhaps a little young to be rescued from the workforce, but one thing I know is that unless we personally know a poster we may be getting a very edited version of what's happenin'. ( I just read Bestwife's post. She is right; OP is not being judicious.)

However I do believe that a lack of reciprocal obligations is one reason for falling birth rates and generally loosening social ties in "advanced countries", and I also believe it is a reasonable response. After all, when you get away from these mores what is left? Children as chips in the welfare or marriage power games; mistakes; and children as toys.

Ha
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:20 PM   #46
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Children as chips in the welfare or marriage power games; mistakes; and children as toys.

Ha


Don't forget children as a narcissistic need to have a copy of yourself who will continue your legacy and tell the future how great you were.
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:52 PM   #47
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Hi Landonew,
Yours is becoming a common situation and I think you are handling it with great kindness and respect for your parents. Unfortunately, our economy is in a severe downturn and will probably not treat real estate investors very well for several years. Please do not encumber yourself and jeopardize your financial future by purchasing duplexes, strip malls, houses, etc. at this point.

I agree with others who have urged you to pay down your school loans and simultaneously build a one year emergency fund. Continuing to live with your parents and pay rent would help them save for retirement. This is a situation that occurred in my own family (but not with me personally). But how do you know that you will stay in the same geographic area?

The fact that your mom is now working two jobs is likely a source of shame for your father. Be gentle how you approach them about any of your plans.
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:41 PM   #48
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Hi Landonew,
Yours is becoming a common situation and I think you are handling it with great kindness and respect for your parents. Unfortunately, our economy is in a severe downturn and will probably not treat real estate investors very well for several years. Please do not encumber yourself and jeopardize your financial future by purchasing duplexes, strip malls, houses, etc. at this point.

I agree with others who have urged you to pay down your school loans and simultaneously build a one year emergency fund. Continuing to live with your parents and pay rent would help them save for retirement. This is a situation that occurred in my own family (but not with me personally). But how do you know that you will stay in the same geographic area?

The fact that your mom is now working two jobs is likely a source of shame for your father. Be gentle how you approach them about any of your plans.
I have signed an employment contract with a firm in the DFW area.

Thanks for the advice. Yall have convinced me to focus on my own financial situation. I think I will use this time to focus on my career as well as chip away at those students loans/build my EF. I would like to set them up in a modest house eventually. Perhaps concerning myself with that at this juncture is the proverbial equivalent of "putting the cart before the horse."
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Old 01-23-2009, 04:19 PM   #49
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Oh-oh! I appear to be stepping on people's feet.
No offense taken, Ha my dear. I was just pointing out that even though many other cultures DO feel they owe their parents, it is not always something that they WANT to do.

Personally, my dad and I made a deal. He'll do his best not to need any money from me and I'll not count on any money from him. I do, though, feel the obligation to keep in touch and visit.
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Old 01-23-2009, 04:33 PM   #50
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Thinking about this, I have a general observation.

Same as many others, I have provided for my children. I did not indulge them, but did not leave them wanting either. I have always loved them, and as fas as materialistic things, give them what I think is reasonable within my income and econo-social class. I do not plan for them to return anything. It is my duty as a parent to provide for them, having brought them into this world. I am making plan for my retirement without their help, although when I become weak and invalid, will appreciate their calling or visit when it is possible. I don't think I differ much from people in this forum with children.

Though I do not plan for nor want their help in my old age, just the thought that they would not care about me, should I need help, hurts.

Now, why is it that it is common and OK for adult children to expect inheritance from their well-to-do parents? Do most of them come to the funeral only to hear the lawyer read the will?

They say s**t rolls downhill. I submit to you that in parent/child relationship, the reverse is generally true. But then, it is nothing any of us does not know already, I don't think.
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:45 PM   #51
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Thinking about this, I have a general observation.

Same as many others, I have provided for my children. I did not indulge them, but did not leave them wanting either. I have always loved them, and as fas as materialistic things, give them what I think is reasonable within my income and econo-social class. I do not plan for them to return anything. It is my duty as a parent to provide for them, having brought them into this world. I am making plan for my retirement without their help, although when I become weak and invalid, will appreciate their calling or visit when it is possible. I don't think I differ much from people in this forum with children.

Though I do not plan for nor want their help in my old age, just the thought that they would not care about me, should I need help, hurts.

Now, why is it that it is common and OK for adult children to expect inheritance from their well-to-do parents? Do most of them come to the funeral only to hear the lawyer read the will?

They say s**t rolls downhill. I submit to you that in parent/child relationship, the reverse is generally true. But then, it is nothing any of us does not know already, I don't think.

I'd say in this instance downhill would be would be to the younger generations. If one generation raises selfish ungrateful kids what kind of kids do you think are going to be raised in the next generation. And when grand parents get mad that their kids are ungrateful it's the grandchildren who sufferthe most
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:25 PM   #52
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Thinking about this, I have a general observation.

Same as many others, I have provided for my children. I did not indulge them, but did not leave them wanting either. I have always loved them, and as fas as materialistic things, give them what I think is reasonable within my income and econo-social class. I do not plan for them to return anything. It is my duty as a parent to provide for them, having brought them into this world. I am making plan for my retirement without their help, although when I become weak and invalid, will appreciate their calling or visit when it is possible. I don't think I differ much from people in this forum with children.

Though I do not plan for nor want their help in my old age, just the thought that they would not care about me, should I need help, hurts.

Now, why is it that it is common and OK for adult children to expect inheritance from their well-to-do parents? Do most of them come to the funeral only to hear the lawyer read the will?

They say s**t rolls downhill. I submit to you that in parent/child relationship, the reverse is generally true. But then, it is nothing any of us does not know already, I don't think.
Althought this is a "general observation" I would have to agree. I have seen a sizeable inheritance ruin people. They spend their early and mid twenties blowing through it, and then reach 30 with no money, no skills, and no realistic outlook on life.
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:29 PM   #53
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Don't forget children as a narcissistic need to have a copy of yourself who will continue your legacy and tell the future how great you were.
How could I possibly forget that, Dad?
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Old 01-24-2009, 09:23 AM   #54
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At ages 54 and 56, they still have time to sort this out. Please forgive me if I hurt you by saying this, but your mother does have some responsibility as the "gambling" was going on in her home with her nest egg. Otherwise, I can't comment on your plans. I will say this. My son is a treasured and loved child and I've done everything I could for him. In return, I know he loves and respects his parents. But, I plan to starve before I would let him take care of me. The only thing I've ever asked of him in that regard is that he will care for his own children the way he was cared for - not overly spoiled, but cherished. He has never figured into my retirement plan; I couldn't be that selfish.
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Old 01-24-2009, 11:37 AM   #55
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Same here, bubba.

On the other hand, what son or daughter would let their parents starve? A spouse of such person would have to wonder if a person is so coldhearted to someone who raised him or her, how such a person could be so loving to someone else? No wonder the divorce rate is high.

As I tried to say before, the proper way to handle this is somewhere in between.
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:30 PM   #56
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At ages 54 and 56, they still have time to sort this out. Please forgive me if I hurt you by saying this, but your mother does have some responsibility as the "gambling" was going on in her home with her nest egg. Otherwise, I can't comment on your plans. I will say this. My son is a treasured and loved child and I've done everything I could for him. In return, I know he loves and respects his parents. But, I plan to starve before I would let him take care of me. The only thing I've ever asked of him in that regard is that he will care for his own children the way he was cared for - not overly spoiled, but cherished. He has never figured into my retirement plan; I couldn't be that selfish.
You don't hurt my feelings so much as you miss the point of the post.

Without sounding rude (yes, I too can use "qualifiers"), I requested advice concerning the "medium" in which to help my parents. I did not ask, generally or specifically, "which one of my parents, in your opinion, should shoulder what part of the blame. Furthermore, I don't recall requesting your opinion concerning the ethical implications of intergenerational transfers of wealth/financial assitance.

Lastly, there is a difference between "expecting" assitance from someone and graciously accepting a helping hand that is rendered during a time of need.

You say you would reject this hand at all cost.... A statment easily said when you are in a position in which you don't need a helping hand.
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Old 01-25-2009, 09:20 AM   #57
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Without sounding rude (yes, I too can use "qualifiers"), I requested advice concerning the "medium" in which to help my parents. I did not ask, generally or specifically, "which one of my parents, in your opinion, should shoulder what part of the blame. Furthermore, I don't recall requesting your opinion concerning the ethical implications of intergenerational transfers of wealth/financial assitance.

Lastly, there is a difference between "expecting" assitance from someone and graciously accepting a helping hand that is rendered during a time of need.

You say you would reject this hand at all cost.... A statment easily said when you are in a position in which you don't need a helping hand.

I'm so very sorry that I've obviously offended you, and nothing was further from my mind when I originally posted. From everything I've read from your posts, you are the son a parent can be proud of and your parents are extremely lucky to have you in their lives. I feel I must point out that you cannot know what my position is, and whether I need (or have needed) a helping hand or not. Perhaps I see more clearly than you realize. Also, I didn't comment on the ethics of intergenerational transfers of wealth, but of my own personal beliefs regarding same. But, no more unsolicited advice from me. God bless, and again, I'm very sorry to have offended you.
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Old 01-25-2009, 10:57 AM   #58
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I greatly admire your desire to help your parents and if my girls grow up to be half as caring as you are, I will die with a smile on my face. There's nothing wrong with helping your parents as long as it doesn't present a great hardship for you. My parents were not as fortunate as I am and certainly did not have the opportunities I've had. They are immigrants who have struggled hard and sacrificed for the children. Today, I am happy to extend a helping hand. Of course, you will have to consider the impact on your own financial security. With that said, helping parents in need is a great and noble act. When I think of the great care my parents took of us and the sacrifices they make, I think the right thing to do is to help them out if they need and I can afford. It's entirely a western perspective to think that it's the parents obligation to take care of children but children does not have an obligation to return the favor. What hogwash!
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Old 01-25-2009, 12:58 PM   #59
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I'm so very sorry that I've obviously offended you, and nothing was further from my mind when I originally posted. From everything I've read from your posts, you are the son a parent can be proud of and your parents are extremely lucky to have you in their lives. I feel I must point out that you cannot know what my position is, and whether I need (or have needed) a helping hand or not. Perhaps I see more clearly than you realize. Also, I didn't comment on the ethics of intergenerational transfers of wealth, but of my own personal beliefs regarding same. But, no more unsolicited advice from me. God bless, and again, I'm very sorry to have offended you.
Its ok, I am particularily sensitive about my mothers situation. It breaks my heart to see her working two jobs when she "supposedly" FIRE in her late 40s. Regardless, I should not have been such a smart ass and I do believe, to some extent, that you are correct about it being partially her fault. It is just very difficult for me to see it that way at this juncture. In my view, however biased it may be, faulting my mother is not all too different from "blaming the victim." Indeed, I do not have personal knowledge concerning your situation and I apologize for any presumptions I may have made. Sometimes, my youthful haste gets the better of me and my mouth (or fingers in this case, lol) reflect this shortcoming. Anyhow, no hard feelings.
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:42 PM   #60
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So, to sum it up here is my tenative plan (thanks to the collective advice of this forum).

1) Build emergency fund until $7500 during which time making minimum payments on Student loans and maximum 401k/IRA contributions. Note: I figure, that $7500 would be the maximum amount of money I would need to procure other employment where I to, for some reason, lose the firm job. Estimated time, around 3 months or so depending on "start up" expenses such as wardrobe ext.

2) Refinance student Loans. I figure after a few paychecks, my income will be sufficient to procure a favorable interest rate.

3) Aggresively pay off student loans (all-disposible income). Still maintain maximum contribution to 401k/IRA as well as continuing to build the EF (rate of $500/month) until it reaches $20,000.

3) Re-assess my personal finances/goals after paying off student loans. at this point (3-4 years) I should be older and more able to truly identify my goals.


I was thinking of using a CD latter for the EF. I will need to research this some more. And to start with, I plan on throwing my meager 401k/IRA ($21,500/year) into an index fund until I feel confident about my investing ability.

Side Note: Does anyone know if Bush's plan to eliminate the income restrictions on the ROTH IRA is effective or will be effective? I sure hope so.


The plan, at least right now, is to live at home with my parents and pay a modest rent of $450/month or about 1/2 of their rental payment. I would still need to work out the particulars, but I know that they are ameniable to the aforementioned arrangment.

Thanks for all the advice. The best thing I can do for myself, and my parents, is to build a strong financial base and then reassess the method in which I can help them. I think purchasing a modest house for them to live in is a definate goal of mine, but one that should be a distant second to getting out from under my current debt as well as building a solid EF.
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