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Old 12-26-2008, 12:46 PM   #101
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It seems to be some sort of cross-cultural thing, where some women want to be 'modern' (go to school and earn money) AND want to be 'traditional' (have parents and husbands pay for everything).
Chose either or neither, don't expect both.
Sorry, feeling kind of crabby; mostly supported myself.
Well, then I must be crabby too. I am also a self supporting type.
Allow me to go a step further - Nobody, male or female, should have any expectation for anyone else to pay for anything that person wants. A gift is supposed to be given, not demanded. The giver is the person in control of the gift, not the recipient. Not the family or ex-family or siblings or children or the next door neighbor.
The only thing that has to be paid for is one's own w*rk effort. It's called a paycheck. Money is not usually handed out for cuteness. At least that's how it goes in my universe.
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Old 12-26-2008, 12:49 PM   #102
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...By the way tonight is the big family party, hopefully there will not be any fireworks. I talked to my son yesterday and he asked me why my daughter was angry with me. He is very tight lipped, but obviously totally knew what was going on. He said my daughter wanted me to pay for her wedding, I replied that depends on how much she wants to spend.
Good answer! I couldn't have done better myself.
Sounds like accomplices are being recruited and the wagons are circling. I wish you luck. This is your steering wheel all the way. Drive carefully!
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Old 12-26-2008, 02:32 PM   #103
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Many various comments

Wedding costs are local- I got married in Ohio in 2001 (I think it was 2001)... and what we paid for a 120+ person wedding was something. My wife knows the number better than I... my sister was married on Long Island in 2005 or so and when my wife compared costs and what was included, my sister was robbed. For example $50/person for hair getting done in Ohio and $150 for an updo on Long Island or something crazy like that.

Second, I need to know more about two people:

Bride's mother
Son in law

and the relationship your daughter has with both, and the relationship of your daughter's mother with her future son-in-law.

I have this thing going on in my head that your ex-wife knows your financial assets to some degree, and has told the son-in-law... and that the SIL sees this as way to get things paid for.

I liked Want2Retire's post a few pages back as well. I also agree to some degree with $2500 take it or leave it. I disagree with a poster at some point which said "market performance does not adjust the contribution". Horse honkey. Yes it does.

Maybe a compromise is you tell DD you will pay for a family vacation in 5 years somewhere of your choosing or something similar like that.

If paying for wedding adjusts retirement date, then retirement comes first (IMO) and any child, spouse or sibling needs to understand that. You cannot get back time spent, and time spent w*rking is too difficult for you to bear. DD needs to understand this. If she does not, she sees you as a money source, no more, no less.
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Old 12-26-2008, 05:13 PM   #104
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Crispus

Not sure I can add anything to the immediate discussion other than my sympathy that this situation has dampened your Christmas holiday.

But, on a related note: DW and I did our wills a couple of years ago. The process forced us to think about a lot of things which impinge on your (and I'm sure many other folks') situations.

We long ago decided that most of what remained of our estates would go to the various charities we've supported (while we're still here to follow their good works). To our kids, we will leave a relatively small but not insignificant amount - maybe enough for the down payment on a sensible house, but who knows by then.

Separate from our wills, DW and I decided how much we would provide to our kids (a dollar amount, possibly COLA'd) while we are still living. When that amount is gone, it's GONE. This amount would be given, as needed, for such things as wedding, school loan repayment, house down payment, etc. We would, of course, be able to say "No!" at any time, even if there were money still available in our "fund". So, if, for instance, one child want's a fabulous wedding, they may not receive a house down payment from us, etc. Also, if one kid wants to start a business, we would want to see their business plan (and agree with it) before assisting them with the funding.

Only tricky part is communication of Mom and Dad's "policy" decision. We do plan to have the "talk" about this with each child, but we will not discuss the amount. We'll let them know it's "significant" but not "bottlomless".

This "fund" also provides Roth IRA's for each kid. As long as they keep them up, we will continue to fund the Roths. That's non-negotiable. Bust an IRA and all further funding ceases, but the amount which would have been used to fund future IRAs will be subtracted from the "number" we originally set.

Manipulative? Darn right, it is, but it's ours to manipulate with. I hate to put it in these terms, but money is a lever which can be used to help your kids "grow up" even when they no longer live with you.

Is this the "best" or "right" way to pass on family blessings? We'll let you know when we're in our '90s, heh, heh.

I sincerely hope that your situation works out and that you and DD are somehow drawn closer through this trying time. Bless both of you.
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Old 12-26-2008, 05:19 PM   #105
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I agree with those who advocate sticking by the original offer. Rescinding it because emotions are high and your daughter behaved badly only feed into the same money/control/emotional-extortion deal. The high road like Brat indicated with the letter sounds best to me. I would save the money mgmt. books for another occasion, though.
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Old 12-26-2008, 06:12 PM   #106
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Crispus, we're all waiting with bated breath for your report on tonight's get-together!
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Old 12-26-2008, 07:34 PM   #107
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Crispus, we're all waiting with bated breath for your report on tonight's get-together!
Well google news doesn't seem to be reporting anything. "Like new victims of the economic, distressed bride kills father for not paying for wedding". So I think he survived the encounter.
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Old 12-26-2008, 08:40 PM   #108
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Crispus, we're all waiting with bated breath for your report on tonight's get-together!
Funny how ya just never know which threads are gonna be a big hit on the forum - who'd a thunk it?
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Old 12-26-2008, 08:58 PM   #109
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I wonder if I should stay up late tonight and see if the OP replies.

Kind of boring around my abode.
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Old 12-26-2008, 09:05 PM   #110
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Well google news doesn't seem to be reporting anything. "Like new victims of the economic, distressed bride kills father for not paying for wedding". So I think he survived the encounter.
We collectively sent him with enough armor to withstand any and all archers. He'll be ready with every conceivable answer to any verbal volley fired. Oh, how I long to be a fly on the wall at this event.
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Old 12-27-2008, 03:29 AM   #111
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Hope you're okay, Chrispus.
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Old 12-27-2008, 10:27 AM   #112
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We have a big let down here. She called in sick (stomach flu). I suspect underhanded text messages going on between her and her cousin filling her in on the nights' festivities. All and all a nice evening. My brother in law got drunk as usual, my dad hid the McCallan Scotch from me, and we all ate too much.

I don't know when I will talk to my daughter now as she can be quite stubborn. I hope we get an invitation to the wedding.
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Old 12-27-2008, 11:15 AM   #113
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Glad to hear that you had a good time last night.

My DD was married in 07/07. We went to the first dress store and she fell in love with a dress that was "absolutely perfect" and she had to have it and did not want any other dress at any other place. The dress was very expensive and I could see the handwriting on the wall, that everything she wanted would have put a severe dent in our bank account. I called my DH who was at work and discussed it with him and told him that I would like to have a talk with her right in the store. He agreed with me. I told my daughter that she could buy any dress that she liked and purchase anything else that she liked for her wedding. We would give her $5000.00 toward it and then they would have to finish paying for it themselves. I also told her that if they had any money left over after paying for the wedding, the rest was theirs to keep. She was 18 years old and he was 20 years old and just getting out of basic training in the Navy. She decided to hold off on the perfect dress and she called her fiance and they talked over their wedding plans. We went to another dress store, where she found a beautiful gown on sale and was able to get the dress, undergarments, shoes, tiara and dress fittings for less than the original dress. We priced groceries for the reception at different stores. My sister and I cooked everything for the reception. His parents paid to rent the tuxedos for his 2 brothers, who were both his best men. He were his Navy Dress uniform. The music for the reception was music they downloaded to their Ipods. We had a great time trying to learn the dances before their marriage. They took a honeymoon trip to Cedar Point (an amusement park) for a couple of days. They packed coolers with some of the leftover food and goodies from their reception. They had a great time and had money left over after their wedding and honeymoon. It was amazing how careful they became with their choices and decisions with the wedding, after they realized that they were spending their own money.

DH and I were married 36 years ago at the base chapel, after my DH worked. He was married in his dress blues. He was in the Air Force. I was married in a dress, that I wore when I was in school. I was 19 years old and he was 20. My DH and I were married 1 month from the day that we met and we did not have to get married either. My first pregnancy was my DS at age 25. The only people at our wedding were his AF buddies and his younger brother. No one paid anything for our wedding and we did not receive any real wedding gifts either. Actually, his buddies went together and bought a case of champagne which we all enjoyed after the wedding. I did not expect anyone to pay anything for our wedding.

I think that if $2500.00 is what you can afford and you are comfortable with that amount, you should not raise it. I would go with the loving letter also.
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Old 12-27-2008, 11:32 AM   #114
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Crispus you will likely get a call when she realizes she may have burnt her bridges and will get NO financial help toward the wedding from you unless she makes amends! If you decide to still offer her $2500, that would be nice and she'll be appreciative, I bet--and if you decided to add more (perhaps for the first anniversary as a surprise), she'll be thrilled.
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Old 12-27-2008, 09:41 PM   #115
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We have a big let down here. She called in sick (stomach flu). I suspect underhanded text messages going on between her and her cousin filling her in on the nights' festivities. All and all a nice evening. My brother in law got drunk as usual, my dad hid the McCallan Scotch from me, and we all ate too much.
I don't know when I will talk to my daughter now as she can be quite stubborn. I hope we get an invitation to the wedding.
Maybe this (no-show) was for the best all around. Perhaps some time for her to think things through may do her some good.
FWIW...I dealt with a very difficult MIL for 25 years. I learned early on that every time she "punched a button", it was best not to respond. Her kids (one of whom was my LH) never figured this out. They would respond and then the fur would fly, for weeks on end until it all simmered down, then the next "button punch" would happen, rinse and repeat...
Beware the button punchers in your life episodes.
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Old 12-27-2008, 09:58 PM   #116
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Beware the button punchers in your life episodes.
Discussion boards are great training grounds for that behavior... just without the "Ignore Pusher" lists.
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:53 PM   #117
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We sent my daughter a text message saying "Hi Jenna and John we missed you last night hope you are feeling better. We would like to stop over and give you some stuff including yuor scarf. Let us know." She wrote back "I'm very disappointed w u and don't want to see u now. U can drop my scarf off in the mailbox."

Needless to say, that will be our last overture to her. I am afraid only Godly intervention will help at this point. Oh well, I guess the Christmas checks will not be cashed. Seriously we won't play her game. At this point she will have to seem genuinely appreciative to get anything for her wedding.
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:15 PM   #118
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I'm sorry crispus.
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Old 12-28-2008, 04:40 PM   #119
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Seriously we won't play her game. At this point she will have to seem genuinely appreciative to get anything for her wedding.
Amen to that!

When my older son was approaching his 15th birthday his mother asked him for some ideas for a present and he rattled off a lengthy list of very pricey electronics and sporting goods...about 4-5x what we usually spent. When she told him "...ain't no way..." he snapped at her and told her to "Just gimme a check for whatever you guys were planning to spend!"

On his birthday we got out our checkbook and told him to select any charity he'd like for the $150 that we'd planned to spend on a gift. He chose Greenpeace, because he'd seen stories of how much of a nuisance they could be.

They badgered him for follow-up contributions for years afterward. So he got two lessons for the price of one.

He's been a true gentlemen when asked about gift ideas ever since.

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Old 12-28-2008, 04:46 PM   #120
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I don't know when I will talk to my daughter now as she can be quite stubborn. I hope we get an invitation to the wedding.
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Needless to say, that will be our last overture to her. I am afraid only Godly intervention will help at this point. Oh well, I guess the Christmas checks will not be cashed. Seriously we won't play her game. At this point she will have to seem genuinely appreciative to get anything for her wedding.
How do you foresee this ending, given her stubborn nature (as you describe it)? Sure, you don't want to be bossed around, and shouldn't allow that, but maybe further overtures after a while might be a reasonable thing to do. I hope you and she can manage to become close again soon. Not many things are worth giving up a relationship with one's daughter and potential future grandchildren, in the long term.
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