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Old 01-02-2009, 02:35 PM   #141
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Crispus,

I feel your pain and I feel like I may be in your same position some day. Iím long past divorced from my sonís mother, my son is 24. After many, many years of financial support and help in every way imaginable, including 4 years of private college I recently hit a cross roads with him where I told him that I could no longer finance his lifestyle. Iíve failed to teach him the difference between needs and wants and the importance of living within your means; he just doesnít ďget itĒ. In order to try to preserve a healthy father son relationship I told him that I can no longer pay for his current of future lifestyle in any way. After so many years of trying to get him on track and understanding money issues Iíve come to realize that I just canít get him to see things the way I believe they need to be viewed. I told him that I donít give up easy on anything but I didnít think there is any way Iím going to get him to realize that he must find a way to live within his means. Of all the arguments and heated discussions we have had most are related to his childish use of money. I made it very clear that I donít want to hear about his financial problems and that he needs to figure it out on his own. I really hope he hunkers down and that a little bit of all these years of teaching and showing by example have sunk in more than it shows but I really have my doubts. As a parent itís the most frustrating thing I have been thru up to now.

I can see the same scenario some day when he meets that special girl. After the few hundred thousand that Iíve spent on him up to now I have no stomach for funding a wedding or anything else. Itís high time I focus on other things, mainly making sure my lovely wife and I can get of this treadmill somedayÖ..sooner than laterÖÖand hopefully join the ranks of some of you lucky dogsÖÖ..

Good luck with your situation with your daughter. Remember youíve done nothing wrong. Stand your ground and be true to yourself.
You are not alone. I know of many parents who have financially supported their Gen X and Y kids. And until we change our 'habits', they won't change theirs. Perhaps you were financially supportive of your son due to guilt being divorced as I also know of one particular father who was divorced and gave his kids $$ because of guilt. His kids are now nearly 30 and he just had the conversation with them last year.....count yourself lucky to have 'saved' yourself 5 years!
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:11 PM   #142
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Crispus,
I made it very clear that I donít want to hear about his financial problems and that he needs to figure it out on his own. I really hope he hunkers down and that a little bit of all these years of teaching and showing by example have sunk in more than it shows but I really have my doubts. As a parent itís the most frustrating thing I have been thru up to now.
Spark0506
We brought our DD up with a lbym mentality but she has still struggled wanting to do all the activities her circle of technie friends can afford.
We got a bit of surprise when DW put together a budget spreadsheet with her numbers so she could see how her "desires" outstripped" her cash flow. Her response was significant wake up call--she had never quite "seen the data (she is very much a non data person) quite that way".
Since then she has taken over the spreadsheet budget as hers and seems to be making those tradeoffs. Recently dropping some cable services and starting to take her lunch for work.
Your son just may not have cognitively and emotionally engaged in the reality of cash flow--
Consider checking to what degree he really does understand his spending and funds he does have available. You may get an eye opener--we did.
Nwsteve
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:39 PM   #143
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We then drove 3 hours to San Diego for a weekend honeymoon - splurged on a fancy hotel at the Embarcadero & went to the Zoo. We were both back at work Mon morning.


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Wow, you had a honeymoon. We saved for 4 years then finally went south. Our honeymoon was at home, as I recall, we enjoyed ourselves
What can I say - we were young & foolish.
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:27 PM   #144
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Originally posted by spark0506
Iím long past divorced from my sonís mother, my son is 24. After many, many years of financial support and help in every way imaginable, including 4 years of private college I recently hit a cross roads with him where I told him that I could no longer finance his lifestyle. Iíve failed to teach him the difference between needs and wants and the importance of living within your means; he just doesnít ďget itĒ.
My son came over for dinner last night. He is a college senior and moved back in with his mom when her husband died last Jan. Recently they bought a golden retriever puppy along with a cage to keep him in when they are not at home. Last night I asked my son how his dog was doing and he told me he is in his cage often. I asked where his mom was and he said that she is staying with her new boyfriend and has been at his place all week. I could tell he was embarrassed, so I did not pursue it. They have had that dog for 3 months now and he still does not know how to go for a walk. My son chains him up out back, he does his business and he puts him back in his cage and goes out for the evening.

My wife and I feel sorry for Jake the dog and my son Mike. We always offer Mike a place to stay or a home cooked meal, but he feels more at home at his mom's and rarely accepts.

So I know how divorce can ruin relationships with your kids for life. I used to hope that they would grow out of it, but now I don't hold out much hope. My wife and I are conservative and frugal in our lifestyle and as we see eye to eye on most things we could never compete with a mom who always aloud total freedom along with lack of sound financial judgement.

It's both sad and reasuring that so many share simular problems.
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:37 AM   #145
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My wife and I feel sorry for Jake the dog and my son Mike. We always offer Mike a place to stay or a home cooked meal, but he feels more at home at his mom's and rarely accepts.

So I know how divorce can ruin relationships with your kids for life. I used to hope that they would grow out of it, but now I don't hold out much hope. My wife and I are conservative and frugal in our lifestyle and as we see eye to eye on most things we could never compete with a mom who always aloud total freedom along with lack of sound financial judgement.

It's both sad and reasuring that so many share simular problems.
Painful situation Crispus. If you can avoid getting angry or rejecting, he may be different when he has children of his own. In the meantime, you have behaved well, there is nothing more you need to do.

Ha
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:53 AM   #146
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Painful situation Crispus. If you can avoid getting angry or rejecting, he may be different when he has children of his own. In the meantime, you have behaved well, there is nothing more you need to do.

Ha
Well said. I second that.
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Old 01-04-2009, 05:09 PM   #147
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...So I know how divorce can ruin relationships with your kids for life. I used to hope that they would grow out of it, but now I don't hold out much hope. My wife and I are conservative and frugal in our lifestyle and as we see eye to eye on most things we could never compete with a mom who always aloud total freedom along with lack of sound financial judgement.

It's both sad and reasuring that so many share simular problems.
I am watching this go on, up close and in real time. I have no kids myself. Parents who buy their kids everything on the smallest whim or whimper and impose no boundaries are creating the next news headline.
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Old 01-04-2009, 05:38 PM   #148
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...they bought a golden retriever puppy along with a cage to keep him in when they are not at home. ...how his dog was doing and he told me he is in his cage often. I asked where his mom was and he said that she is staying with her new boyfriend and has been at his place all week. I could tell he was embarrassed, so I did not pursue it. They have had that dog for 3 months now and he still does not know how to go for a walk. My son chains him up out back, he does his business and he puts him back in his cage and goes out for the evening.

.
OK, I feel bad about the situation with the daughter, the wedding, the whole deal. But this infuriates me!

No one should bring a puppy/dog into a home if a responsible person is unwilling to spend some time training and caring for the animal. Keeping Jake in a cage for hours on end is no way to care for a pup!!

<We will now return to regularly scheduled programming....>
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:40 PM   #149
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Achiever, I have to agree.

Everyone else in the drama is a (more or less) functioning adult.
The puppy is being mistreated because of its &*^%-up humans.

Not fair.

ta,
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:25 AM   #150
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Agreed.. what a cruel situation for the dog.

If neither the son nor the ex-wife actually like the dog enough to spend time w/it and treat it right, then WHY did they get it? The best thing for all concerned in that situation would be for them to take it to a shelter, contact a 'rescue' group, or find some other loving home, since it is obviously only a burden to them and they should face up to that now. There's nothing shameful about admitting that you are just not interested or capable of giving the dog the attention it needs and deserves at a certain point in time.. or that you've underestimated the task.

Sounds like Mom and Son both want to 'do their thing' w/o having anything cramp their style. The only harm in that is that they shouldn't pretend otherwise and let the innocent animal suffer their lack of self-awareness.
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:36 AM   #151
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I have no kids myself. Parents who buy their kids everything on the smallest whim or whimper and impose no boundaries are creating the next news headline.
I agree, which leads to my most excellent nickname: "Shrek", since I am the ogre in my household........
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:38 AM   #152
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ShrekDude perhaps?
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:44 AM   #153
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OK, I feel bad about the situation with the daughter, the wedding, the whole deal. But this infuriates me!

No one should bring a puppy/dog into a home if a responsible person is unwilling to spend some time training and caring for the animal. Keeping Jake in a cage for hours on end is no way to care for a pup!!

<We will now return to regularly scheduled programming....>
Very true. As a golden retriever lover, this is very sad. They need lot's of exercise and human love.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:23 AM   #154
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That's why we went with cats, we like to travel too much to be good to a dog. When we get home from a weekend away our cats act like we've been gone 20 minutes, "oh, you're back, while you are up the food dish looks a little low...". Both my 4 year old and 18 month old are surprisingly good with them, so much so that the cats will sit on their laps (or over it since they weigh in over 20 lbs each) on the couch to be petted. I seem to remember being not quite that good with a cat at that age!
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:45 AM   #155
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Could we organize a rescue party for the dog, perhaps led by doglover thefed ?
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Old 01-06-2009, 05:27 PM   #156
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and now for the rest of the story....

Jake is their second dog in less then a year. They got their first Golden puppy Riley, who died mysteriously the first week in their home. My guess is that he suffocated on something he ingested from all the crap on the floor. Anyway my ex called the breeder and sobbed her way into a new puppy.

I feel embarased writing this. How could I marry such a ditz? Well she was 17 when we met and lived with her sister and stepdad. She was and is very pretty. In fact with enough money she would be a perfect candidate for "The Real Housewives of Orange County".
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:05 PM   #157
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How could I marry such a ditz? Well she was 17 when we met and lived with her sister and stepdad. She was and is very pretty.
Hey Crispus, don't apologize. Most men go their whole lives without ever sleeping with a stunner, let alone sleeping with her every night.

Like with cars, a Toyota is often cheaper, but a Porsche might be more fun.

Ha
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:38 PM   #158
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...How could I marry such a ditz? Well she was 17 when we met and lived with her sister and stepdad. She was and is very pretty. In fact with enough money she would be a perfect candidate for "The Real Housewives of Orange County".
Unfortunately you have joined a legion of men all asking the same questions...
How could I have [fill in the blank] her
or
Why did I do [fill in the blank] for her? What was I thinking? etc etc
A lot of the guys I used to work with would ask me for some female advice when they found themselves in spots like this. My answer was always consistent - tell her what you are telling me and maybe you can work it out. That rarely worked for them...sigh.
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:29 PM   #159
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I don't think any serious breeder would be happy to see the fruit of "their" labors treated that way; most are pretty picky about the homes and some even make you sign elaborate contracts that give them the right to take the pup back! If this is one of those kind of breeders I would drop a dime. sheesh.
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Old 01-07-2009, 04:52 PM   #160
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Crispus, tough story - I just skimmed your posts in this thread for the first time. I'm the father of two young daughters and would hate to be in your shoes. I think you are in the right on this one though.

When it comes down to it, your daughter put a price tag on her relationship with you, and that is $12,500 ($15,000 minus $2,500). If that is all she thinks her relationship with you is worth, then it is her loss I suppose. Hopefully in the future she will come around and realize that some things are more valuable than $12,500.

The story is ironic in a way. A wedding should be a festive arrangement where the friends and family of the bride and groom can celebrate the new life they are starting together. To have the daughter put a damper on it like this and the father of the bride to potentially be facing ostracism seems to fly in the face of the purpose of the wedding.

Best of luck!
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