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Old 02-25-2010, 04:41 PM   #261
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Assuming the new position meets your needs, take it.

I plan on doing so. This other stuff is just a bit of kabuki to ensure I do not burn bridges.
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Old 02-25-2010, 10:15 PM   #262
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OK, now it is getting even weirder. Now I get an email from the dept head's boss (an SVP) saying how much he values my contributions to the dept, that I may be leaving for the wrong reasons, that he wants me to wait a few days before making a decision, and he wants to talk tomorrow. I have to be polite and take the call because this could easly get my @ss fired if I were not nice, but where hell were you people 4 months ago when I stuck my head out and begged for help (and maybe a littel recognition)? And they still have until Monday afternoon.

Oh yeah, and the quarterly promotion list seems to have come out without my name on it. What is it you fools were planning on offering me, exactly?
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Old 02-25-2010, 10:20 PM   #263
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The old "help me understand' ... approach is very effective.
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Old 02-25-2010, 10:29 PM   #264
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This all mystifies me and has definiately added to my stress.

Bottom line is that I do not trust these people to make good on "pie tomorrow" so unless there is a lot of cash onthe barrelhead (and a couple of severed heads as well), my participation in these little chats is purely professional courtesy. I have my ticket out of shtsville and I am planning on using it.
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:43 AM   #265
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OK, now it is getting even weirder. Now I get an email from the dept head's boss (an SVP) saying how much he values my contributions to the dept, that I may be leaving for the wrong reasons, that he wants me to wait a few days before making a decision, and he wants to talk tomorrow.
If he was truly concerned he would have called without prior warning like the call from Australia. This is most likely a note sent by him but prepared and/or requested by someone in-between.

Quote:
Bottom line is that I do not trust these people to make good on "pie tomorrow"
This time its different? Yeah, right...

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so unless there is a lot of cash onthe barrelhead (and a couple of severed heads as well), my participation in these little chats is purely professional courtesy. I have my ticket out of shtsville and I am planning on using it.
How much extra cash do you need to compensate for this

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In my profession, most of the jobs available require a huge number of hours and tons of stress. The carrot is way outsized compensation. I have done that for years and have no interest in doing it again. I have small children and am a devoted family man and I have already neglected my wife and children in favor of my career too much. I thought I had found a rare opportunity to pursue my profession with reasonable work/life balance, livable wages and a chance to do good. Unfortunately, the immediate team situation turned toxic. My hope is that I can salvage the mess by moving to another area within the organization. If not, I will be back to either accepting a job that means I will be forced to neglect my family once again, or vainly trying to find a job in my profession with some balance and a reasonable wage. So my decision is to gut it out a while and see if I can salvage something from the mess I am in. I am not playing for small stakes here. If you have never been in this situation, good for you.
No sarcasm intended in this last part. A lot of money upfront might do the trick if it enabled a FIRE - type situation, but you really need to know how much abuse you can take. When I faced this situation I overestimated my own capacity to deal with the crap...
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:15 AM   #266
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Had the call with the SVP. Looks like they are trying to delay my acceptance ofthe new spot so they can do their song and dance. I can't see what they could offer that would make me stay, but now the stakes are higher to avoid burning bridges because someone so high up the food chain is involved. Since nobody has even offered me anything, when I am inevitably dragged into a closed door meeting I guess I will present a list of demands to make things real clear.
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:38 AM   #267
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What's the chance they can stop the transfer?
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:43 AM   #268
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They are probably trying to figure out if you are going to file an EEO complaint of some kind after your transfer, or allege a hostile work environment, or some such thing. Just reassure them that the job was wonderful (even though it wasn't) and that you see a lot of opportunity at the new job.
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:45 AM   #269
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The word "requirements" works well. Position them, if possible, as in the best interest of the SVP, his/her division - you want the executive to excel. Consider, also, what would happen if your requirements were not met.

The current situation does not permit your skills to be utilized, one option might be a suitable 'special assignment' which takes you out of that group until they whip it into shape and if they do not there is a contractual obligation for XXXX.

I, personally, believe that there it too much inertia for the needed changes to take place within your time frame. Others in that group who feel threatened will make efforts to see that you don't succeed. You would be better off in another work group until it is restructured.

If people are fleeing this group the SVP knows there is a problem and it is beginning to reflect on his or her leadership. To have a prize hire want to move cannot be a good thing for their career. I wouldn't be forthright about my assessment but I wouldn't voice platitudes either.

Go into this meeting well prepared.
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Old 02-26-2010, 12:35 PM   #270
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They have repeatedly stated they would not block any of us who wish to move, although they have the ability to do so. Suspect they realize that the only thing worse than an employee leaving is having them stay and be hostile.

Agree, Brat, that it is highly unlikely they will deliver or change anything material in anything less than a couple years. I am not putting up with this for that long. I am tempted to put out a scenario that I know they would not go for, but would neatly solve a number of problems for them: get me out from under present incompetent managemnet, make me the lead for a newly formed small team focused on my area of specialty, and let me pick who I want on this new team. I would pick my friends who are all competent and all working on leaving the group. Problems solved:

- focused team on a critical issue that is in the headlines every day
- you keep me
- you keep several other people who are gone otherwise

Oh, by the way, I guess you will have to promote me since I am now running a team.

There is no way they will got for this because it would ruffle way too many feathers. But it would solve lots of their problems and some of mine.
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:46 PM   #271
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Actually your focused team proposal makes sense. The question is whether or not the SVP is willing to ruffle feathers. How desperate is s/he? You may only know that at your meeting, watch the body language. See if you can lead this person into thinking that the focused team idea is theirs.

Unless the SVP already knows that the others are seeking to leave too I wouldn't share that information. You could even name your team members and lay it out fully formed and that you report to the SVP directly. Make sure that those on the list had opt out rights and you controlled who joined the team.
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:00 PM   #272
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Yeah, we will see. Realistically, despite the excesses to which they are going, I am too low in the hierarchy for them to consider my idea. If you are at a certain grade, it is sufficient evidence that you are not going to be leading anything, regardless of ability. This is a hidebound culture that prizes tenure and appearance over ability and results. So the extensive efforts to convince me to stay are out of bounds with how things are done, but...
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Old 02-26-2010, 05:31 PM   #273
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Had the call with the SVP. Looks like they are trying to delay my acceptance ofthe new spot so they can do their song and dance. I can't see what they could offer that would make me stay, but now the stakes are higher to avoid burning bridges because someone so high up the food chain is involved. Since nobody has even offered me anything, when I am inevitably dragged into a closed door meeting I guess I will present a list of demands to make things real clear.
I would not present a list of demands. It's likely to ruffle some feathers and while you may be able to get away from the bosses from hell, they'll likely try to get revenge for it no matter where you go. I'd go into the meeting just to listen to their offer. If they ask for suggestions, present some of the less conflicting demands to see their reactions.

Remember that anything that you say can be used against you. I once filled out a company survey truthfully and while it wasn't the purpose, many supervisors choose to use it against all the employees. I think there was even a question if you thought the survey would be used against you. The second survey and any future surveys with other companies, that was the only box I checked truthfully.

Of course you realize that anything they promise will likely disappear once your other job opportunity disappears. If they do happen to make an offer that you can't refuse, get everything in writing with their and HR's signatures on it, leaving no details out. Make sure there are no weasel words in it and have them initial any changes. It may not solve anything, but it should stand up in court.

Finally, remember that more money doesn't solve all problems for long.
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Old 02-26-2010, 05:51 PM   #274
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If you feel that you have insufficient status for them to give you a leadership position I wouldn't waste my effort. AKCK has a point, exit stage left gracefully. The only time I MIGHT consider feedback is after you are well extablished in your new role.

Any SVP who doesn't know what is going on doesn't deserve the position or is powerless to change it. In either case s/he can do nothing for you.
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:26 PM   #275
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I imagine today at work is an interesting day for you Brewer. Hope the situation gets resolved to your satisfaction.
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:35 PM   #276
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Yeah, we will see. Realistically, despite the excesses to which they are going, I am too low in the hierarchy for them to consider my idea. If you are at a certain grade, it is sufficient evidence that you are not going to be leading anything, regardless of ability. This is a hidebound culture that prizes tenure and appearance over ability and results. So the extensive efforts to convince me to stay are out of bounds with how things are done, but...
DId we w*rk together and just not realize it? It is universal, isn't it?

I wish you the best of luck in getting this nonsense done and over with so you can refocus on the good stuff in life.
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:42 PM   #277
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Yeah Brewer - dying to know what happened today. Hope if went well for you and not too much cr@p - well, I guess the latter is probably impossible.

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Old 03-01-2010, 04:21 PM   #278
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Well, an hour ago I was told the changes cannot be put in place in time for my schedule and after some thought the VP realized that I am uniquely suited for the new spot (true), so I was off the hook. He hoped I would stay in the loop on certain matters (I will out of professional interest) and no hard feelings. Within minutes I accepted the new spot and I feel like a 200# man stopped sitting on my chest.
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Old 03-01-2010, 04:24 PM   #279
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Resolution. Priceless.
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Old 03-01-2010, 04:27 PM   #280
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I'm happy for you that you are out of the frying pan...
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