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Old 02-03-2010, 06:37 PM   #161
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And I'm assuming you are/were a gov't worker based on your assumption that worthless @ss monkeys aren't the ones that usually get promoted in private industry.
Actually I had extensive experience in both government and private enterprise. From my government experience I found those that were problems were never confronted. Every year they got their annual raise, no-one wanted to actually go to the bother of doing anything that would actually put any pressure on them to perform. At one time I was working side-by-side with an alcoholic who was probably out sick 50% of the time and the rest of the time she may as well have stayed at home. She never got written up, nor did anyone ever say she should not get her annual increment.

In private enterprise, I found if you work hard, you get rewarded. My first company, they gave me a 33% pay rise the first year in recognition of my efforts. Last company I worked at in private enterprise they promoted me after 3 months and each of the 3 years I was eligible gave me substantial bonuses and significant pay rises. I had 3 less than desirable employees that directly reported to me. All 3 were let go, only because HR were motivated and worked with me to make it happen.

However I do agree with what you are saying. There are good companies and bad companies, and I think even good companies sometimes have bad practices. I know at my last company which I considered to be good, when it came time to make the layoff list, pretty-girl syndrome kicked in along with people using it as an opportunity to take revenge against anyone they didn't really like for whatever reason.
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Old 02-03-2010, 07:40 PM   #162
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It is nice to get so much support from fellow posters.
You must have pounded your DELETE key flat several hundred times before you came up with that response to those [moderator edit]'s* sympathetic suggestions...




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Old 02-03-2010, 08:18 PM   #163
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You must have pounded your DELETE key flat several hundred times before you came up with that response to those [moderator edit]'s sympathetic suggestions...
Eh, on the road and coming down with a cold. I don't have the energy for that sort of thing and one of the two aholes is already on my ignore list. In any case, I am well aware that they are basically just ignorant. Not taking the bait this time.
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Old 02-03-2010, 09:59 PM   #164
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Like I said, many speak from a position of ignorance. In my profession, most of the jobs available require a huge number of hours and tons of stress. The carrot is way outsized compensation. I have done that for years and have no interest in doing it again. I have small children and am a devoted family man and I have already neglected my wife and children in favor of my career too much. I thought I had found a rare opportunity to pursue my profession with reasonable work/life balance, livable wages and a chance to do good. Unfortunately, the immediate team situation turned toxic. My hope is that I can salvage the mess by moving to another area within the organization. If not, I will be back to either accepting a job that means I will be forced to neglect my family once again, or vainly trying to find a job in my profession with some balance and a reasonable wage. So my decision is to gut it out a while and see if I can salvage something from the mess I am in. I am not playing for small stakes here. If you have never been in this situation, good for you.
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:17 AM   #165
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The only good thing about other slackers getting promoted is that it opens other jobs that you can apply for. It's the same in my gov't job. You have to "put in your time" before being considered for a higher level position. That, and "who you know" factors heavily into the equation.

I found gutting it out to be fairly easy in my gov't job. I get a ton of sick leave and annual leave (holidays too!). So I use it. I don't call in sick per se, but if DD needs a doc appt I'll schedule it and go. Gets me out of the office and takes care of her.

Good luck!
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:17 PM   #166
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They announced the "changes" today. The two teams were formally combined, so now I report to yet another boss. Otherwise they swept everything under the carpet and told us to speak up if things were not going well, notwithstanding the fact that none of us feel comfortable doing so in the first place.

On the positive side, the team I approached about moving to suddenly has a vacancy, so at least they have open headcount without creating a new position. They will need to upgrade the position, since the departing person is more junior than me, but that is less wood to chop than a completely new position. We will see...
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:24 PM   #167
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:57 PM   #168
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"Like I said, many speak from a position of ignorance. ...If you have never been in this situation, good for you."

Brewer--I did go through a spell of this when I was working. There were both financial and personal reasons that the "Johnny Paycheck" option was not right for me. You have my sympathy and when you get to FIRE, it will be all the sweeter.
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:35 PM   #169
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On the positive side, the team I approached about moving to suddenly has a vacancy, so at least they have open headcount without creating a new position. They will need to upgrade the position, since the departing person is more junior than me, but that is less wood to chop than a completely new position. We will see...

I hope it all works out for you ! Work is tough enough without tons of obstacles !
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Old 02-04-2010, 04:56 PM   #170
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I know at my last company which I considered to be good, when it came time to make the layoff list, pretty-girl syndrome kicked in
I am kind of an outsider to big workplace issues and I don't know the jargon. Could you please explain what "pretty girl syndrome" is?

Ha
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Old 02-04-2010, 05:02 PM   #171
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I am kind of an outsider to big workplace issues and I don't know the jargon. Could you please explain what "pretty girl syndrome" is?

Ha
I believe it means the shorter the skirt, the heavier the makeup, the more fluttery the eyelashes, and of course the bigger the rack , the longer a woman may be retained in a downsizing operation.
Sad but still true out there in some places...
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Old 02-04-2010, 05:27 PM   #172
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I've never heard the term "pretty girl syndrome" either. The decision to retain the "pretty one", I hope is at a subconscious level?

Such as studies showing that "cuter babies get more attention", "prettier kids get better grades" and that "taller men tend to get more raises and promotions".
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Old 02-04-2010, 05:33 PM   #173
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Without a doubt I have seen pretty girl syndrome in play, don't think for a moment it's a myth. It's where they put their best assets forward, flutter their eyelashes on occasion and smile at the middle-age men who tend to be managers.

It was so obvious at my last company. There were 3 admin. The most motivated, cheapest and most skilled was the lady in her 40s. The other 2 were pretty girls in their 20s. Both HR Manager and myself as Manager of all Admin staff felt that lady in her 40s should be number 1. All the male managers had her number 3 and no prize for guessing who was the first to be laid off.
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Old 02-04-2010, 05:36 PM   #174
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I've never heard the term "pretty girl syndrome" either. The decision to retain the "pretty one", I hope is at a subconscious level?

Such as studies showing that "cuter babies get more attention", "prettier kids get better grades" and that "taller men tend to get more raises and promotions".
It all depends.
For instance, I am an attractive woman, and have been called beautiful by some very special men in my life. I have an admirable build. I speak well with formal manners and always practice good grooming. Sounds ideal to represent a company or in my case, Uncle Sam, or be promoted, right?
The difference is I never USED my physical appearance as a means to gain favor or promotions in the w*rkplace. The "pretty girls" do use their appearance intentionally, and it often is very effective.
I knew of at least 4 women engineers who capitalized on their sexual aura with their male supervisors. No sex acts were involved, just ran their female sexuality at full throttle.

Not this lady.
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Old 02-04-2010, 06:12 PM   #175
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I was told more than once that being tall and attractive was perceived as a "negative," since female attractiveness, in our excuse for a corporate culture, was equated with less intelligent and capable. I was even told that men wouldn't want to take orders from me because they wanted to date me!!

I actually fell for this cruel, worthless cr@p, for a while. An indication of how little I believed in my own smarts and abilities back then. This led to years of straightening my hair, wearing severe outfits and neutral colors, all of which I gladly pitched when I got enough promotions and responsibility on my record. I knew, when I got promoted to GS-15, that my looks were not part of the equation....my boss was a woman, and so was her boss!
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Old 02-04-2010, 06:46 PM   #176
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Hey, Brewer, are these stories making you feel any better?

Sorry about the threadjack...I enter a plea of guilty.

I do find it interesting, and somewhat disheartening, to see that ugly politics in the w*rkplace, regardless of basis, are pretty much universal. It is the nature of the beast.
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Old 02-04-2010, 06:51 PM   #177
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I am not sure how this gambit would affect me. It might just make me pissed at the brazen manipulation. It also might make me want to get rid of her so I could calm down and do some work!

It also might make me stupid like the time I rear-ended some guy in a Nordstrom parking lot because I was staring at a babe. The guy said, no sweat, didn't hurt my truck. I had a little more trouble explaining the body damage to my wife though, as I was driving her car.

Ha
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:49 PM   #178
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Hey, Brewer, are these stories making you feel any better?

Sorry about the threadjack...I enter a plea of guilty.

I do find it interesting, and somewhat disheartening, to see that ugly politics in the w*rkplace, regardless of basis, are pretty much universal. It is the nature of the beast.
Somewhat. Misery loves company, but I think I have enough to share (and oh how I would love to share it with the right people). Actually, as much as I hated sitting through the conference call this morning where they disclosed they were sweeping the problems under the rug and actually making them worse, it was liberating in a sick sort of way. Since I have no hope whatsoever that things will get better without moving, I have no more subconscious second thoughts about moving on.

In the meantime I will be trying to get home before the snow closes in. Do not want to be stuck in country for the weekend.
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Old 02-04-2010, 08:38 PM   #179
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I know the 'pretty girl syndrome' goes on, but thinking about my past jobs I don't remember that type of thing happening. Eh..maybe I was too dumb to notice as I tried to enjoy each day and find something to laugh about.

I did notice at my last job employed by Megacorp some people were given great performance reviews so someone else would want them. Their boss wanted them out of their department because they were a PITA. The boss wanted them to be someone else's problem.
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Old 02-05-2010, 09:49 AM   #180
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Pretty girl syndrome is having a stack of 300 resumes for an admin position, reviewing all 300 resumes and picking the top 10 applicants. Interviewing a number of these applicants, then being told that the president of your employer met a nice lovely lady at the jewelry store earlier that day and offered her the job on the spot given her highly visible assets and flirtatious personality.

Said admin has since been fired. She never learned how to use Excel, Word, Email, order office supplies, etc. But the president liked to look at her and occasionally hug her.

I wish it were not a true story from just a couple years ago at the place I still work.
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