Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
How's everybody feel about SS?
Old 07-10-2007, 04:05 PM   #1
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 12
How's everybody feel about SS?

Scrap it? Give it a chance? Personally, at the age of 26 I know I will more than likely never see my money again. So I think I should at least be able to use the 400/month the way I see fit. At least give me the option....

How does everyone else feel?
__________________

__________________
bldgengineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-10-2007, 04:15 PM   #2
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 567
Would love to add that money to my own retirement account. However, many people aren't disciplined enough to save for their retirement (hint, they probably don't hang out here). So, we're going to go through some painful transition periods..

Next best option would be to let me self direct into a small choice of funds and let me watch it grow.

In addition to that, I'd like to see congress stop borrowing against the social security surplus.

I'm 29 and not planning on ss at all. In reality, though, if we haven't imploded as a country by then (and if we're not forced to restructure our debt, peak oil doesn't drive everyone out of business, bird flu doesn't kill everyone, we don't all drown when the ice caps melt, etc) then it'll likely exist in some fashion.
__________________

__________________
Webzter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 04:24 PM   #3
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webzter View Post
Next best option would be to let me self direct into a small choice of funds and let me watch it grow.

In addition to that, I'd like to see congress stop borrowing against the social security surplus.
I agree with this as well. The people that aren't fiscally responsible enough to plan for their own retirement more than likely are one's who wouldn't read all the paperwork that goes along with getting their job. If there were a little check box asking if you would like to place your SS benefit money into a gov't ETF(??) most people would probably look past it.

And congress borrowing the citizens money is just plain wrong. They have their own pension plan so they decide to take what should rightfully ours. What would happen if we voted to borrow money from their pension?
__________________
bldgengineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 04:27 PM   #4
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Unless we bring back an agrarian society where you live with and take care of your elders or we have poor houses, we will need social security in one form or another.

There is no utopia where all young people learn to save for the future and the unseen hand guides us all to a fulfilling retirement.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 05:26 PM   #5
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,921
I am 59 so I think I will probably get SS. However, I don't feel very secure about future cost of living increases, and without them inflation will make it worthless before too long.

If I was 29, and if I was able to give $15K to a 401K, I'd live like a pauper to do it. This higher investment limit is great and has only been available during the past few years, so that is something you have going for you.

Also, I'd prepare for higher income taxes because if/when SS is taken down, there are going to be a whole lot of destitute seniors on the dole and the money for that has to come from somewhere.

Back in the late 1960's and early 1970's there was a huge movement on campuses for ZPG (Zero Population Growth). The idea was that the world was overpopulated and it was each couple's duty to have no more than two kids, and hopefully none.

Had we baby boomers known that we needed more kids to support our social security, maybe instead of ZPG it would have been PPG for Positive Population Growth!! Oh well.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 07:16 PM   #6
Recycles dryer sheets
Robert the Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by bldgengineer View Post
Scrap it? Give it a chance? Personally, at the age of 26 I know I will more than likely never see my money again.
I recall quite clearly thinking this about 25 years ago, when the moaning about SS started seriously. I'm now 52, and the problems have receded into the future as fast as the future has turned into the present. I think it is highly likely you will get some SS payments (and of a meaningful amount) when you are aged and withered like I will be in 10 years or so.

Medical care -- that's a different story.
__________________
Robert the Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 07:55 PM   #7
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 14
Not sure if this has been posted on the boards before, but it seems to fit with this topic:


This is about an hour long presentation by the US Comptroller General (head of the GAO), David Walker, given at Cal Berkley in 2005. He discusses in detail issues surrounding social security, medicare/medicade, national debt, etc.

I saw Walker on 60 Minutes about a week ago and following the show, found the complete presentation linked above, so apparently he is still touring the country with his message.

If you find this type of thing interesting, I believe it is well worth the 60 minutes to watch.
__________________
TDCumm16 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 08:08 PM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Ha...what was it...two days ago that I said "how long before the younger folks start grumbling about paying into social security for all those baby boomers, and their voting voice becomes louder?"

Thats the great part about this place. You dont have to wait long...
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 08:51 PM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
maddythebeagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,450
Why would you complain about a generational redistribution of wealth? The good thing is that the boomers wont live forever..... But hey, this is a FIRE board, and investment income isnt taxed for social security, yet....

All kidding aside, I have 1 parent that will have nothing more than SS and some family support...some people cant or wont save for themselves...I am not a liberal, but seems like sound philosophy...
__________________
- Hurry! to the cliffs of insanity!
maddythebeagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 08:52 PM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Ed_The_Gypsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: the City of Subdued Excitement
Posts: 5,293
I say, keep SS. I have no problem supporting a social safety net. Medicare needs reworking, though. (Having said that, I have no answers.)

I am not planning for SS, but expect that we will get at least 75% of what we are scheduled for. In truth, we will most likely get the full projected amount. I expect that we will be among the last to get what was promised, though.
__________________
my bumpersticker:
"I am not in a hurry.
I am retired.
And I don't care how big your truck is."
Ed_The_Gypsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 09:37 PM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
I'd favor a hybrid system with workers contributing approx 7.65% of their pay to a means-tested safety net (survival-level welfare for the aged). The worker would contribute another 7.65% to his individual account in a choice of a few broad baskets of securities and bonds (broad enough that none of them would be be wiped out in a big downturn). Why 15.3% total? Because the employer-match would be eliminated (it is an accounting gimmick anyway, pay would rise to make up the difference as soon as it was eliminated).

(If eliminating the employer match is too much to swallow, then just have the employer 7.65% contribution go to the "alms for the poor account" and let the employee invest in his 7.65% in his personal account selection).

IRAs, 401Ks, etc would remain available just like today, and that's where people can do their fine-tuning/performance chasing.

The tough part of implementing this is getting the dough to pay the SS obligations for the folks who are already nearing 65. There would have to be a gradual phase-in of means testing by age, with a gradual ramp-down of the non-means-tested monthly checks for those who are younger today.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 04:10 PM   #12
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 12
I have no problem with paying into SS as long as it will still be around when I deserve to get it. Problem is 40 years from now when I can ask for it, it more than likely will be gone. I just don't see any reason to not have a choice when hired. "SS or a Gov't Target Fund" kinda like "Paper or plastic" and nobody can or ever will be allowed to touch it.
__________________
bldgengineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 05:35 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by bldgengineer View Post
I have no problem with paying into SS as long as it will still be around when I deserve to get it. Problem is 40 years from now when I can ask for it, it more than likely will be gone. I just don't see any reason to not have a choice when hired. "SS or a Gov't Target Fund" kinda like "Paper or plastic" and nobody can or ever will be allowed to touch it.
There's one big problem with this: The system needs your contributions now to pay distributions to those who are retired. If workers could opt out, the date when income no longer matches outgo would come quicker and the delta would be bigger.

Also, as a society, we've made a commitment to not allow people to fail catastrophically. There's gonna be a safety net for seniors, and somebody needs to pay for it. If you opted out, you'd be shifting that burden to others.

Though I'm no fan of our present system, it does help to assure a stable social order that allows the economy and our political system to function more smoothly, and that is good for everyone. William Bernstein makes this case well in "God Bless This Ponzi Scheme".
http://http://www.efficientfrontier.com/ef/900/ss.htm
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 09:39 AM   #14
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,424
Correct link to the article -
God Bless this Ponzi Scheme
__________________
Sue J is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 09:56 AM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
maddythebeagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by bldgengineer View Post
I have no problem with paying into SS as long as it will still be around when I deserve to get it. Problem is 40 years from now when I can ask for it, it more than likely will be gone. I just don't see any reason to not have a choice when hired. "SS or a Gov't Target Fund" kinda like "Paper or plastic" and nobody can or ever will be allowed to touch it.
It is absurd to allow folks to "opt out"....what happens if you fail financially? Based on your other thread, you dont sound self sufficient sufficient financial goals??

And don’t say that you never will because **** happens….I much rather having most (there are some exemptions) paying into it and end up with some means testing if necessary rather than asshats not paying into it and ending up at the doorstep begging….
__________________
- Hurry! to the cliffs of insanity!
maddythebeagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 06:56 PM   #16
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 329
I don't think it'll be around when I retire, as I am only 29. However, I am a dirty liberal (affectionate name given to me by my group of very republican, young professional peers). And so, I am happy to support the program and others like Medicaid and Medicare.

My only gripe is that our government robbed social security for years, and they constantly overspend. Such programs somehow become the low-hanging fruit of areas to trim instead of things like the bridge to nowhere in Alaska.
__________________
NinjaPigeon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 07:16 PM   #17
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Those of you who think it won't be around when you retire, what do you think will happen to elderly without money or very little money? A good percentage of the elderly primarily live off of their social security.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 07:33 PM   #18
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Probably a reversion to the way things used to be. Work until you cant, then live in a group home. Sad and pretty dang unpleasant way to go for old folks.

And I'd like to say that it'd be a message for those who still have time on the clock to save their pennies, but people are too short sighted.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 08:49 PM   #19
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny View Post
Probably a reversion to the way things used to be. Work until you cant, then live in a group home. Sad and pretty dang unpleasant way to go for old folks.

And I'd like to say that it'd be a message for those who still have time on the clock to save their pennies, but people are too short sighted.

Yup! Why don't we just move right on to being a third world country.

I believe SS is a baseline income safety net that is needed.

Bottom line: If the country had large numbers of destitute elderly people, there would be an outcry to start up a program to ensure that everyone had a small base level of subsistence income. Sound kinda like SS?
__________________
chinaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 09:29 PM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Thats fine, we just need to readjust some spending to accomodate that. And by the way, i'm all for taking care of the people who helped make this a great country.

Unfortunately, we're a little behind in almost every other area. Will we be allowing crime to run rampant, our schools to suck even more, our highway infrastructure to decay further, or tax the living crud out of everyone who is still working until we remove that motivation?
__________________

__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How wealthy do you feel? laurence FIRE and Money 125 06-03-2007 03:11 PM
Does anyone feel jealousy from friends/family/others? FatBoy71 FIRE and Money 92 02-25-2007 10:54 AM
Anyone feel better in retirement ? Empty Pockets Health and Early Retirement 29 01-16-2007 07:45 PM
should I feel quilty aimhigh FIRE and Money 31 12-28-2005 08:55 PM
Net Worth $1.6m @ 51 I don't feel rich - explain that! dex FIRE and Money 49 10-27-2005 10:05 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:16 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.