Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-20-2010, 08:28 AM   #21
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,255
Good information, exceptional posts from KM, and I think kyounge1956 also makes a great point of is it fair to the new person to be put in a position where this senior person is likely going to make things difficult?

Maybe I missed it (edit: I *did* miss it, WorkerBee said much the same thing as I typed....), but I didn't see a comment regarding your line:
a position that is usually entry level and has a high turnover.

Is it really worth making things difficult over what might be a short-term hire? I agree with RIT philosophically, the hire should get a chance on their own merits, but real life conflicts with that - your real life. Why make things miserable for you and the hire if there are reasonable alternatives.

If you want to invest the time/effort, I'd work on this problem team-members issues separate from this hiring process.

-ERD50
__________________

__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-21-2010, 11:35 AM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,012
Thank you everyone for your input.

So.... I should hire whomever the hell I want, or the person who will please You Know Who, and I should either be bosslike or I shiould ER. In other words, there are as many opinions as posters, LOL! The opinions I find most helpful are those that provide a rationale. This will take a few weeks to play out and I will let you know what happens.
__________________

__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 12:56 PM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: France
Posts: 1,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westernskies View Post
Any senior team member that acts like this is a problem anyway. You are hiring an entry level player, not the senior member's replacement. I'd say go with what is best for the team, not just for one senior member who doesn't play well with others.
Of all the answers so far, this is my favourite. I'm in HR (since November, after 28 years in IT; yes, I know...) and I'm currently dealing with a case where the department wanted to hire A, who was a temp worker, on a permanent contract. Only problem was, A didn't at that time meet the admin criteria for a permanent job, so B was hired instead. At the hiring discussions (candidates not present) it was already clear that the department did not want this person. Now they are trying to abolish her job "for budgetary reasons" while creating a new one "with different money" which is 90% the same, because A is now available. This is in a government-type environment where you can't do this sort of thing, but the senior person is being extremely unprofessional about it. Unfortunately we can't do anything at all about her until she takes mandatory retirement at 65 (30 months and counting).
__________________
Age 56, retired July 1, 2012; DW is 60 and working for 2 more years. Current portfolio is 2000K split 50 stocks/20 bonds/30 cash. Renting house, no debts.
BigNick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2010, 10:50 PM   #24
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
Ultimately it's my decision. I am the boss and I fully intend to make the decision and not second guess it. I also intend to listen to all the opinions and weigh the pros and cons of all options so that I make the best decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
Thank you everyone for your input.
So.... I should hire whomever the hell I want, or the person who will please You Know Who, and I should either be bosslike or I shiould ER. In other words, there are as many opinions as posters, LOL! The opinions I find most helpful are those that provide a rationale. This will take a few weeks to play out and I will let you know what happens.
I'm coming in a little late to this thread, but this reminds me of the "Dear Abby" letters where so-and-so would refuse to attend a family wedding or holiday if another so-and-so was invited. Dear Abby's response to this controlling ultimatum was always "Gee, I'm sorry you feel that way, we'll miss you."

You should be free to hire the people who are best qualified to get along with the majority of the team. If one of the team members isn't mature enough to handle the stress of getting along with a new hire, despite the team's majority opinion, then you should tell this "saint" that you'll miss them.

But you're right, the best solution is ER.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2010, 01:49 AM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rambler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,243
What is best for the patients? I am assuming this is a doctor, because of your line of work. If so, choose such that the patients' needs are best served. If the Sr Saint is really a Sr Saint, he/she should be happy with that...if not, show him/her the door.

R
__________________
Find Joy in the Journey...
Rambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2010, 09:40 AM   #26
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,012
No, the position is not for a physician, unless he/she has the required skills (which would be unusual, since the job is process engineer).
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2010, 09:51 AM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
IMO - Choose the best candidate. But if they are equal, then team harmony might be a determining factor.
__________________
chinaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2010, 10:44 AM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Ed_The_Gypsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: the City of Subdued Excitement
Posts: 5,292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
No, the position is not for a physician, unless he/she has the required skills (which would be unusual, since the job is process engineer).
I think I missed something. Nevermind.
__________________
my bumpersticker:
"I am not in a hurry.
I am retired.
And I don't care how big your truck is."
Ed_The_Gypsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 01:16 AM   #29
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,012
Here's an update:

I hired the candidate with the best KSAs. She is working out very well and will be a real asset to the organization. The other individual returned from vacation to find the new employee in place, and can find nothing to complain about. So far, no passive agressive behaviour, but I'm watching closely for any signs of it and have scheduled several projects that they can collaborate on as a team.

So it all worked out in the end. Thanks for all the helpful input.
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 09:13 AM   #30
Full time employment: Posting here.
CCdaCE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 887
So, why's it high turnover. Is it because of the saint?

-CC
__________________
"There's those thinkin' more or less, less is more, but if less is more, how you keepin' score?
It means for every point you make, your level drops. Kinda like you're startin' from the top..." "Society" - Eddie Vedder
CCdaCE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 09:38 AM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
Stuff like this might just make me decide to ER!
What relation are you to the other person - higher or same level?

If the candidates are of equal ability; I'd go with the harmony factor.
__________________
Sometimes death is not as tragic as not knowing how to live. This man knew how to live--and how to make others glad they were living. - Jack Benny at Nat King Cole's funeral
dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 10:04 AM   #32
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,065
Dex, check post #29. It's a done deal.
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 10:16 AM   #33
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
Dex, check post #29. It's a done deal.
txs - I missed that one.
__________________
Sometimes death is not as tragic as not knowing how to live. This man knew how to live--and how to make others glad they were living. - Jack Benny at Nat King Cole's funeral
dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 12:33 PM   #34
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,012
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCdaCE View Post
So, why's it high turnover. Is it because of the saint?

-CC
No, it's a type of position that can be entry level, and we've had a series of young people who, when they have mastered it completely, move on to more advanced positions.
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 10:38 PM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
Excellent post KM, thank you!



The type of work we do makes teamwork essential. I asked for the opinions of the other team members because I value them. Other team members think as I do about the candidates for the job.



Success depends on many factors, including but not limited to technical skill. Organizational fit is important; we have a strong culture of service and collaboration. I insist on results. I have worked with the senior person for many years and it is clear in the organizational structure and in our previous actions that I seek everyone's opinions but that I make the final decision.



Yes, we are all clear on that.



Well respected because he/she does superior work. In fact, he/she is annoyingly saintly. . There are people in this organization who believe he/she can do no wrong.



You're very perceptive! Senior Person is actually quite rigid despite being an empathic leader, and can make life miserable for people he/she dislikes. He/she is jealous that he/she is not the team leader. He/she is older than I am but shows no signs of ERing anytime soon. He/she got a new lease on his/her career when I developed this team and avoided burnout, so he/she has some dependence on me. And yet, there is, I think, some jealousy that the whole thing was not his/her idea. Very noble person, well meaning, but resents my leadership. I am just getting tired of working with him/her. I am more interested in building new initiatives than I am in dealing with petty squabbles. I have already made my boss aware that I am looking for a change.
Is this senior person of indeterminate sex? If not, why all the he/she?

ha
__________________

__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
a fathers day dilemma lazygood4nothinbum Other topics 28 06-17-2008 04:32 PM
Mom's dilemma LeatherneckPA FIRE and Money 14 05-02-2008 09:18 AM
New - dilemma Carol0720 Hi, I am... 5 07-18-2007 06:22 PM
RMD ethical dilemma pfpelican FIRE and Money 10 11-01-2006 07:31 AM
Job Dilemma...which one to take? Calgary_Girl Young Dreamers 16 06-30-2006 05:24 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:04 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.