I don't know whether to be offended or more determined

Tomcat98 · 11-23-2007, 04:26 PM

Last night we were at some friends for Thanksgiving dinner along with 3 other families. Two are retired military and the other is a govt civilian under the old retirement plan. After dinner there were a series of discussions. One was the market tanking, another was debating the make-up of various ETFs between two of the guys (mine is better than yours), paying off a mortgage and having a mortgage, and the last was on long term planning. CINC house and I was very quiet and just listened. Everyone seemed to be an expert and their view was right.

One guy is going to retire next summer. He is 62, no debt, and about a $20k military pension. He and his wife talked about talked about how they had planned, and even had a spreadsheet which includes, mandatory IRA withdraw dates, optimal time to take SS and their estimated demise dates. IMHO he has really thought thru his path ahead.

Another wife went on and on about planning. She thought long term planning was a waste. She said she only knew what her vacation was next year and didn’t plan for anything else. There was also some discussion about how she viewed investing the market etc. Essentially all her money is in her mattress.

Then she turned to me and said “so what are you going to do when you retire from the AF in two years?” Her husband looked at me and kind of grinned because he knows the deal as we have discussed it many times. I said well I am going to retire, spend time with the family and then maybe do something or not I haven’t decided on that one yet. She looked at me like I was from Mars. And said “YOU CAN”T DO THAT you have two small kids and will be in your early 40s, you have to work another 20 yrs. I know my husband is because he has to pay for this house.” Then the rant began.

I have never had anyone attack me that way on this subject. I was stunned and felt like someone punched me in the gut, thought about doubting myself, thought you are right I do have two young kids and that is the reason I need to RE to spend time with them, and then mentally switched to the “watch my tracers” mode all in about 60 seconds.

I know we can do this. Earlier that morning I had set down with CINC house and laid out where I thought we were going to be financially so I had a pretty good feel that we will be ok. She kept on and on about “you can’t do that.”

Has this ever happened to you and how did you deal with it? I am sure the critics will come out of the woodwork closer to my ER date. I am still stunned about this.

Tomcat98

cute fuzzy bunny · 11-23-2007, 04:32 PM

You ran into someone who wants what you have and since they cant have it, you cant either.

Her hairballs implicitly inhibit her from doing whats needed to be successful in investing and retiring. Not ranting on you forces her to admit her self failings in these areas.

Calgary_Girl · 11-23-2007, 04:32 PM

No, this has never happened to me. But, I imagine if it ever did I would either A) ignore it; or B) Say "Wanna make a bet?"

It seems to me that the people who are "non-believers" are usually the jealous types since they know they could never afford to do what you're planning.

REWahoo · 11-23-2007, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomcat98

She kept on and on about “you can’t do that.”

Has this ever happened to you and how did you deal with it?

What she was really saying is "I/we can't do it, so neither can you!".

And the best way to deal with it is to change the subject when someone asks you about your plans.

**bssc** · 11-23-2007, 04:35 PM

I think that by existing, you have confronted her world view that life is random and you have to bury money in your back yard in a tin can. I would have made some comment about getting an inheritance (we got $4K from the MIL's estate) to deflect her.

But, as you noted, the problem is with her and she is in denial. You just have to keep moving along, knowing that you are doing the best for your kids. Make sure that you tell them about Early Retirement so they don't tell their teachers that you don't have a job.

Chonder · 11-23-2007, 05:03 PM

LOL...I am 38 and work for City Government where EVERYONE but me is on the 30 year and out plan. I opted for the self-managed plan. One day a fella of similar age/senority as me made the comment that WE would be there 20ish more years. I said, NO, I have 5-8 more years to go. The room got quiet. They all knew I only have several years in.
I explained that I was in the self managed plan AND a deferred comp plan and that I would retire with 15-18 years and get the same payout I would have gotten in 30.
They chose to disbelieve me and treated it as a joke. Oh well, when I leave in 6+- years...they will STILL disbelieve that I am FI, they will find another scenario to believe NO MATTER WHAT I tell them. So I feel what you're saying.
But for them to accept that they have LOST 10+ years of their life through poor management is more than they will ever accept. Easier to think I am crazy or a liar.

bbbamI · 11-23-2007, 05:07 PM

She was way out of line. I swear, I think some people need muzzles.

The last time someone made a snide remark to us, I just said, "we are wealthy." That pretty much shut 'em up.

clifp · 11-23-2007, 05:33 PM

I have had a number of people say that you are too young to be retired, but never anybody go into full attack mode.

I guess there is a reason that envy is one of the seven deadly sins. Take comfort that if Catholic church is correct she will rot in hell unless she confesses and repents what she did

Actually, I think I'd take comfort in not being married to the lady!

youbet · 11-23-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomcat98

I was very quiet and just listened.

There's your problem!

If you were standing next to a burning fuel tank which was certainly going to explode and kill everyone around it, would you just stand there quietly or run away?

Next time you're in this kind of situation where the outcome is so predictable, save yourself some grief and run for the hills........

TromboneAl · 11-23-2007, 06:04 PM

Interesting story. For us civvies, what is "watch my tracers mode" and what is a CINC house (cytokine-induced neutrophil chemoattractant?)?

clifp · 11-23-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl

Interesting story. For us civvies, what is "watch my tracers mode" and what is a CINC house (cytokine-induced neutrophil chemoattractant?)?

Not Military but

CINC house = wife. Commander in Chief House, cute I think

FIREdreamer · 11-23-2007, 06:37 PM

Something similar happened to me once at a party. I was talking to a guy in his fifties and somehow his retirement plans came up in the conversation. He had it all figured out apparently, take social security at 62, retire at 65 and play golf 3-4 times a week, living off SS plus the interests generated by his CDs (all his money was in CDs, stocks and bonds were for suckers in his opinion. I'll spare you his reasoning on this subject). Since he seemed very proud of his accomplishments, he started giving (unsolicited) advice to the younsgter (me, in my early thirties), so that one day the youngster could enjoy the same kind of retirement he will enjoy. After a while, I told him I was planning on retiring in my forties. First he thought I was joking, but when he realized I wasn't he basically got really annoyed and paternalistic. How would the youngster know anything about retirement at his age? "Retirement planning is a complex thing son". "It ain't easy to save money son"... He basically managed to make me feel and look like a fool and I was really offended. But since I grew up with this idea that you must respect your elders (no matter how undeserving you think they are), I just shut up.
Even my parents think I am crazy to even contemplate retirement in my forties. They are Europeans, and retiring early is "just not what people do". What does it say about you if you retire early? It says you are lazy. It says you don't contribute to society. How would it reflect on the rest of the family if you were "unemployed" (the name they give to people under age 60 who are not working)? Yes, for my folks, ER is not an accomplishment, it brings on shame.
So now I just keep my ER plan for myself (well I do share them with my wife on occasion

). I don't discuss them with anyone except with anonymous strangers who share my goals and ideals like the members of this forum.

cute fuzzy bunny · 11-23-2007, 06:42 PM

This is why I dont talk about investments or financial situations with anyone that doesnt ask me a specific question, and then I just answer the question and go back to shutting up.

No good ever comes of it.

Meadbh · 11-23-2007, 06:43 PM

She's just jealous and incredulous. Be happy you have more sense, and don't take this personally. If you are pressed for an answer again, say you're thinking of going into finance.

youbet · 11-23-2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREdreamer

So now I just keep my ER plan for myself .

Good idea and a concept lots of folks (young or old) are having trouble catching onto. Bringing up your ER plans is exactly like bringing up your wealth/money status. Almost almost always in bad form and possibly offensive or boring to the listener.

When making conversation, much better to challenge someone's religion or politics!

Puzzley · 11-23-2007, 07:01 PM

First, it's absolutely none of her business, and she was way, way off base.

Second, the best thing for you to do is ignore her, and go on with your well thought out plan.

samclem · 11-23-2007, 07:02 PM

Wow. Yep, you surely touched a nerve with her.

I don't discuss our financial situation with others for the reasons we've touched on here. Plus, typical party conversation concerning investments is usually full of inaccuracies and a bunch of people in transmit mode with no one listening. If someone seems really open to advice and asks me, I'll chime in.

This forum is a little like AA. "Hello, my name is samclem and I'm a saver . . . "

dex · 11-23-2007, 07:05 PM

Good idea to keep your ER plans to yourself.
Are you the type of person that is influenced by uniformed people?
This woman does not know much about you - financial, goals etc.
It you allow these type of people to whipsaw you; you will be second guessing yourself.
Surround yourself with people who inspire you and your goals like Billy and Akishia.
Good luck

kumquat · 11-23-2007, 07:07 PM

Way back when, one of my co-w*rkers got into Amway. Tried to ~~interest~~ suck me in, told me of his plans to ER in 1988. He's still there, I left in June.

If anyone suggests that I might have to w*rk in the future I ask if I can try my next carreer on them. When they say 'what', I say 'Welcome to Walmart, clothing for the seriously obese is in aisle 22'.

Who cares about their opinion.

clifp · 11-23-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREdreamer

Even my parents think I am crazy to even contemplate retirement in my forties. They are Europeans, and retiring early is "just not what people do". What does it say about you if you retire early? It says you are lazy. It says you don't contribute to society. How would it reflect on the rest of the family if you were "unemployed" (the name they give to people under age 60 who are not working)? Yes, for my folks, ER is not an accomplishment, it brings on shame.
.

Sorry cheap European shot...

Well if I had a 35 hour work week and 8 or is 10 weeks of vacation a year, I'd probably keep working also!

11-23-2007, 04:26 PM	#1
Tomcat98 Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 209	I don't know whether to be offended or more determined Last night we were at some friends for Thanksgiving dinner along with 3 other families. Two are retired military and the other is a govt civilian under the old retirement plan. After dinner there were a series of discussions. One was the market tanking, another was debating the make-up of various ETFs between two of the guys (mine is better than yours), paying off a mortgage and having a mortgage, and the last was on long term planning. CINC house and I was very quiet and just listened. Everyone seemed to be an expert and their view was right. One guy is going to retire next summer. He is 62, no debt, and about a $20k military pension. He and his wife talked about talked about how they had planned, and even had a spreadsheet which includes, mandatory IRA withdraw dates, optimal time to take SS and their estimated demise dates. IMHO he has really thought thru his path ahead. Another wife went on and on about planning. She thought long term planning was a waste. She said she only knew what her vacation was next year and didn’t plan for anything else. There was also some discussion about how she viewed investing the market etc. Essentially all her money is in her mattress. Then she turned to me and said “so what are you going to do when you retire from the AF in two years?” Her husband looked at me and kind of grinned because he knows the deal as we have discussed it many times. I said well I am going to retire, spend time with the family and then maybe do something or not I haven’t decided on that one yet. She looked at me like I was from Mars. And said “YOU CAN”T DO THAT you have two small kids and will be in your early 40s, you have to work another 20 yrs. I know my husband is because he has to pay for this house.” Then the rant began. I have never had anyone attack me that way on this subject. I was stunned and felt like someone punched me in the gut, thought about doubting myself, thought you are right I do have two young kids and that is the reason I need to RE to spend time with them, and then mentally switched to the “watch my tracers” mode all in about 60 seconds. I know we can do this. Earlier that morning I had set down with CINC house and laid out where I thought we were going to be financially so I had a pretty good feel that we will be ok. She kept on and on about “you can’t do that.” Has this ever happened to you and how did you deal with it? I am sure the critics will come out of the woodwork closer to my ER date. I am still stunned about this. Tomcat98

11-23-2007, 04:32 PM	#2
cute fuzzy bunny Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ... Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Losing my whump Posts: 22,527	You ran into someone who wants what you have and since they cant have it, you cant either. Her hairballs implicitly inhibit her from doing whats needed to be successful in investing and retiring. Not ranting on you forces her to admit her self failings in these areas. __________________ Many an optimist has become rich by buying out a pessimist

11-23-2007, 04:32 PM	#3
Calgary_Girl Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 517	No, this has never happened to me. But, I imagine if it ever did I would either A) ignore it; or B) Say "Wanna make a bet?" It seems to me that the people who are "non-believers" are usually the jealous types since they know they could never afford to do what you're planning. __________________ I can only be nice to one person today! Today is not your day...tomorrow doesn't look good either.

11-23-2007, 04:35 PM	#5
bssc Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,627	I think that by existing, you have confronted her world view that life is random and you have to bury money in your back yard in a tin can. I would have made some comment about getting an inheritance (we got $4K from the MIL's estate) to deflect her. But, as you noted, the problem is with her and she is in denial. You just have to keep moving along, knowing that you are doing the best for your kids. Make sure that you tell them about Early Retirement so they don't tell their teachers that you don't have a job. __________________ Angels danced on the day that you were born.

11-23-2007, 05:07 PM	#7
bbbamI Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas Vicinity Posts: 1,750	She was way out of line. I swear, I think some people need muzzles. The last time someone made a snide remark to us, I just said, "we are wealthy." That pretty much shut 'em up. __________________ Sometimes my feelings are so hot that I have to take the pen and put them out on paper to keep them from setting me afire inside; then all that ink and labor are wasted because I can't print the results....Mark Twain

11-23-2007, 05:03 PM	#6
Chonder Dryer sheet wannabe Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 23	LOL...I am 38 and work for City Government where EVERYONE but me is on the 30 year and out plan. I opted for the self-managed plan. One day a fella of similar age/senority as me made the comment that WE would be there 20ish more years. I said, NO, I have 5-8 more years to go. The room got quiet. They all knew I only have several years in. I explained that I was in the self managed plan AND a deferred comp plan and that I would retire with 15-18 years and get the same payout I would have gotten in 30. They chose to disbelieve me and treated it as a joke. Oh well, when I leave in 6+- years...they will STILL disbelieve that I am FI, they will find another scenario to believe NO MATTER WHAT I tell them. So I feel what you're saying. But for them to accept that they have LOST 10+ years of their life through poor management is more than they will ever accept. Easier to think I am crazy or a liar.

11-23-2007, 05:33 PM	#8
clifp Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,138	I have had a number of people say that you are too young to be retired, but never anybody go into full attack mode. I guess there is a reason that envy is one of the seven deadly sins. Take comfort that if Catholic church is correct she will rot in hell unless she confesses and repents what she did Actually, I think I'd take comfort in not being married to the lady!

11-23-2007, 06:04 PM	#10
TromboneAl Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 4,116	Interesting story. For us civvies, what is "watch my tracers mode" and what is a CINC house (cytokine-induced neutrophil chemoattractant?)? __________________ - Al -- Always serious, never joking. No, wait. Never serious... Always... I forget.

11-23-2007, 06:37 PM	#12
FIREdreamer Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,302	Something similar happened to me once at a party. I was talking to a guy in his fifties and somehow his retirement plans came up in the conversation. He had it all figured out apparently, take social security at 62, retire at 65 and play golf 3-4 times a week, living off SS plus the interests generated by his CDs (all his money was in CDs, stocks and bonds were for suckers in his opinion. I'll spare you his reasoning on this subject). Since he seemed very proud of his accomplishments, he started giving (unsolicited) advice to the younsgter (me, in my early thirties), so that one day the youngster could enjoy the same kind of retirement he will enjoy. After a while, I told him I was planning on retiring in my forties. First he thought I was joking, but when he realized I wasn't he basically got really annoyed and paternalistic. How would the youngster know anything about retirement at his age? "Retirement planning is a complex thing son". "It ain't easy to save money son"... He basically managed to make me feel and look like a fool and I was really offended. But since I grew up with this idea that you must respect your elders (no matter how undeserving you think they are), I just shut up. Even my parents think I am crazy to even contemplate retirement in my forties. They are Europeans, and retiring early is "just not what people do". What does it say about you if you retire early? It says you are lazy. It says you don't contribute to society. How would it reflect on the rest of the family if you were "unemployed" (the name they give to people under age 60 who are not working)? Yes, for my folks, ER is not an accomplishment, it brings on shame. So now I just keep my ER plan for myself (well I do share them with my wife on occasion ). I don't discuss them with anyone except with anonymous strangers who share my goals and ideals like the members of this forum. __________________ "Fortune favors the brave" - Virgil

11-23-2007, 06:42 PM	#13
cute fuzzy bunny Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ... Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Losing my whump Posts: 22,527	This is why I dont talk about investments or financial situations with anyone that doesnt ask me a specific question, and then I just answer the question and go back to shutting up. No good ever comes of it. __________________ Many an optimist has become rich by buying out a pessimist

11-23-2007, 06:43 PM	#14
Meadbh Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,515	She's just jealous and incredulous. Be happy you have more sense, and don't take this personally. If you are pressed for an answer again, say you're thinking of going into finance.

11-23-2007, 07:01 PM	#16
Puzzley Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 169	First, it's absolutely none of her business, and she was way, way off base. Second, the best thing for you to do is ignore her, and go on with your well thought out plan.

11-23-2007, 07:02 PM	#17
samclem Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,934	Wow. Yep, you surely touched a nerve with her. I don't discuss our financial situation with others for the reasons we've touched on here. Plus, typical party conversation concerning investments is usually full of inaccuracies and a bunch of people in transmit mode with no one listening. If someone seems really open to advice and asks me, I'll chime in. This forum is a little like AA. "Hello, my name is samclem and I'm a saver . . . " __________________ "Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein

11-23-2007, 07:05 PM	#18
dex Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,982	Good idea to keep your ER plans to yourself. Are you the type of person that is influenced by uniformed people? This woman does not know much about you - financial, goals etc. It you allow these type of people to whipsaw you; you will be second guessing yourself. Surround yourself with people who inspire you and your goals like Billy and Akishia. Good luck __________________ Sometimes death is not as tragic as not knowing how to live. This man knew how to live--and how to make others glad they were living. - Jack Benny at Nat King Cole's funeral

11-23-2007, 07:07 PM	#19
kumquat Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 811	Way back when, one of my co-wrkers got into Amway. Tried to ~~interest~~ suck me in, told me of his plans to ER in 1988. He's still there, I left in June. If anyone suggests that I might have to wrk in the future I ask if I can try my next carreer on them. When they say 'what', I say 'Welcome to Walmart, clothing for the seriously obese is in aisle 22'. Who cares about their opinion. __________________ Life's a bitch and then you come back - Hindu proverb