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Old 08-13-2012, 06:09 PM   #21
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+1

You may have thrown the above resume together quickly but it is full of spelling and grammar errors. By the way, in using the analogy of two north poles when describing your teamwork and communication abilities, the fact that two north poles repel gives the wrong message, or I may have misunderstood what you were trying to say.

Poor spelling and grammar, and using improper analogies will count against you when employers are reading through resumes even though it matters little if you have the talent where it matters.

As a manager I took great pride in seeing talented members of my department with no degree achieve job positions normally requiring a degree. However, I would never be allowed to hire an outside applicant into a position that required a degree, and in my old company your resume would never get past the HR screening process so I would not even get to see it.

I wish you all the best of luck in your job search, but with no degree you will probably fall at the first hurdle when applying to most large companies.
thank you for your thoughts!
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:15 PM   #22
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... All methods of targeting my niche market involved stepping outside my 22 year old male body into the mindset of a 12 year old girl.
...and some people might find this statement to be a little creepy, especially those with children.
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:17 PM   #23
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I am not fond of correcting people, but I believe my magnet analogy is sound cbsnews.com/2100-205_162-44720.html
Oh boy...
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:22 PM   #24
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Oh boy...
What, arguing with the person doing the hiring won't get someone a job?

Darrell, you are young and if nothing else, you have time on your side.

Good luck.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:01 PM   #25
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Thank you everyone for your thoughts. It may not seem like it but I really do appreciate the advice, and it will certainly have an effect on my current direction. Although I certainly take pity on the next lost 22 year to stumble upon this site, it was certainly a shot to my ego. Fortunately I can take it and learn from it. As a wise man once said "Life is tough, unfair, and owes you nothing" that must be why I cant delete/rewrite my opening post to sound like somebody other than an arrogant, know it all.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:28 PM   #26
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I can't add much to what others have said, except for one small thing -- if you need to direct someone to an article about maglev trains to explain your magnet analogy, it is not a very compelling analogy. Analogies should be immediately obvious to the reader or there is no point in using them.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:31 PM   #27
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Consider joining a startup which would require a lot of the same skills and degree is less important. If you are open to moving to the Bay Area, CA, you would have no problems finding the right company/partners. If needed, start a blog, become active on twitter or Google+ with relevant posts and on coding sites & bulletin boards where you can quickly establish a reputation. More and more companies in this space look at your online contributions.
As others have said, create a killer "functional" resume highlighting your skills and downplaying the degree and send to Facebook, Google, Amazon or whichever is your dream company. Good luck.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:43 PM   #28
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I work in a Megacorp. As noted above, we get 100s of resumes now for an open position. One thing to keep in mind is that the hiring, technical manager will never even see 90% of the resumes. Some person in HR will go through with a checklist and, as noted, a degree is one of them.

Have you considered an internship in a place you might like to work? You would be working for free but could turn into a full time position. One of our VPs started out that way.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:52 PM   #29
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Darrell,
Unfortunately I go to work each day and couldn't respond right away. Fortunately many of my bosses are retired or not tired after work, and cared enough to comment on your interview response.

As you know by now, we've gone with another candidate. Megacorp simply does not need your entrepreneur skills. In my question I referred to roles. In our Projectized environment we look for specific skills to suit a role. You did not mention one technical skill in your lengthy answer.

I think if you synthesize a critical report from all the responses, you have a career blueprint to work from.

I didn't mind your grammatical missteps. But the stream of consciousness style won't work in an interview. Usually. My boss loves bs and would love to hear all that.
When you interview, just answer the question, and wait for the next one.

And if someone criticizes your writing, just mention that you banged all that out while multi-tasking across several projects, and mobile keyboards are really, really ancient, and so on.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:28 PM   #30
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Have you considered an internship in a place you might like to work? You would be working for free but could turn into a full time position. One of our VPs started out that way.
Great point.

One of my big successes was bringing in a final year student as an intern for the last 6 months of her degree. She had terrible grades but the recommendation came from a retired school teacher friend who I had great respect for.

Within 6 months she had proven how bright she was and what great inter-personal skills she had dealing with our internal customers. I convinced the HR manager to hire her when she graduated and she was an excellent addition to the company. Three years later I was talking with our new HR manager who asked about her as he had heard nothing but great reports from everyone she had done work for, and he asked, "How did you come to hire her, even as an intern, with a GPA this low?". The fact is that if you can get in at any level it can be worth it.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:33 PM   #31
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I think you are young and aggressive. That can be good, but you also give the impression that you are perhaps moving too quickly to hear others, hence you do not adapt to feedback as well as you think you do. Arguing about the magnets is a good example. Your own source states: "When two magnets are put together, opposite poles attract, similar ones repel." That repulsion is what makes your analogy flawed. Did you not understand that in the comments you received? If you really meant to say something like creating a frictionless space between two colleagues (which is awkward) you should have explained that - not just provided a URL source. Maybe that's okay in some social circles, but it can be seen as obnoxious by many (including hiring managers) if you answer a discussion with a URL and no explanation.

Other's have mentionned the numberous grammer and spalling issues.

Your word choice and phrasing about 12 year old girls is also very awkward and will risk alienating many readers. Get help to fix this, or omit it, because as written it will immediately lead many hiring managers to not even bother to contact you.

I'm not sure what kind of work you are looking for. You do not mention any technical skills at all. Do you program? Do web design? Manage projects? Are there any job descriptions in help wanted ads that you think fit you? Which ones? Why do you think they fit?

If you are looking for an opportunity to range all over the place and just do whatever you can on a big web project and other people with specific skills fill in the gaps, that will be hard to find. If you have an identifiable role you can play, you will likely find plenty of opportunities. It's a very active high tech hiring market. You might need specialized cover letters and resumes if you have several different roles in mind as possibilities. Send a tailored response to each job, not a generic response that covers all the things you might want to do.

Good luck. You have some excellent experience and skills. You need more, and maybe a bit of polish that will come with more experience.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:02 PM   #32
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I am against the occupy movement, there are jobs, you just have to get up off your ass and find them or make them.

I am a 22 year old web entrepreneur from Seattle Washington. 2 years ago I dropped out of college to start a social network with a group of fellow students, the social network was designed to be a timeline of the users life. One year, 14,000 lines of code and 20,000 dollars later, Facebook launched its timeline a month before launch and the project was abandoned. Now I am living off other websites that have been profitable, but by no means stable. I have a ton of business experience in web management, search engine optimization, social media marketing.These are skills that cannot be taught in updated form at a college. I've been managing the development and monetization of websites since I was 15. Society says I have to get a degree to get a job, but I beg the differ. I have more experience and social skills than the majority of business grads.

So I need help in what direction I should head in now. Being self employed for so long, i'm out of the loop in finding a full time job, and getting around the degree requirements. I may just need a good contact. Or if you know anyone who can relate to my field of expertise and offer advice, let me know.
A few things to think about:

1. Skill inventory. What can you do? Be specific.
2. Interest inventory. What jobs interest you?
3. Are you qualified for those jobs?

If you are not qualified, or not competitive for the jobs you want, you need to retrain your sights on something else or get qualified. As others have said, your tone comes across as a bit boastful, whereas in the non-entrepreneur world, you'll get further by getting humble. You might consider jobs in the SEO, blogging, media, and marketing fields. Most of the traditional "big" tech firms won't consider you without a degree. Check Craigslist and Careerbuilder.

You might find some interesting connections at Biznik in Seattle, or the young professionals group at the Seattle Chamber of Commerce. Good luck to you!

SIS (Former recruiter, current biz owner)

PS: Avoid talking about how you are better/smarter/more qualified than others. Immediate turn off.
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Old 08-14-2012, 03:48 PM   #33
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A few things to think about:

1. Skill inventory. What can you do? Be specific.
2. Interest inventory. What jobs interest you?
3. Are you qualified for those jobs?
I think this is key. When I first read Darrell's original post I didn't know if he wanted to work as a programmer or as SEO marketer. Obviously very different requirements. In addition, he should probably look at:

4. What skills & background does the competition have for the position
5. Who do you know in your network that can help you get those positions / introduce you to the right people
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:43 PM   #34
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All right, my two cents--and I have a soft spot for young 'uns and hope you're the next Andrew Mason. Oh, wait--he graduated from Northwestern before he started Groupon. Guess he wasted four years there!

There are jobs, you just have to get up off your ass and find them or make them.
So why are you asking us for help finding them? Just get up off your ass and find or make one.

I am a 22 year old web entrepreneur from Seattle Washington.
If you're an entrepreneur you want to work for yourself--why should a company hire someone and spend its time/money developing you when your entrepreneurial goal is to have your own company?

I have a ton of business experience in web management, search engine optimization, social media marketing.These are skills that cannot be taught in updated form at a college.
How do you know? You left college after what? two years. Maybe those subjects are taught in depth now, or at another school, or in the years you missed.

Society says I have to get a degree to get a job, but I beg the differ. I have more experience and social skills than the majority of business grads. a. If you can't get a job without a degree, maybe "society" is right and you're wrong? and b.You seriously know the majority of business grads and what their experience and social skills are? What if the HR or the interviewing manager is a business grad?

So I need help in what direction I should head in now. Being self employed for so long, i'm out of the loop in finding a full time job, and getting around the degree requirements. I may just need a good contact. Or if you know anyone who can relate to my field of expertise and offer advice, let me know. As said so eloquently above, you're young. Get your butt back in school and get the degree. Maybe you were at the wrong school before--maybe you need to find a program with people just like you in it who live and breathe the stuff you're interested in. Maybe you'd love it--maybe you'll make the contacts to start the next great entrepreneurial innovation.
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:27 PM   #35
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I am now even more impressed with the knowledge of the forum members. The responses to Darrell may have seemed harsh at times but truthful. It's like saying I've been there, done that, tried that and I recommmend this. What more could you ask for of this group. I just can't wait to see how this shakes out with even more responses. It's obvious that you won't find a pity party here. Ask and you shall receive. Shy of piling on, I think the responses were great. Kudos to the responses of all the respondents.
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Old 08-14-2012, 06:07 PM   #36
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If sarcasm skills count for anything in the job market, they should be lining up to hire you!

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T As a wise man once said "Life is tough, unfair, and owes you nothing" that must be why I cant delete/rewrite my opening post to sound like somebody other than an arrogant, know it all.
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Old 08-14-2012, 06:35 PM   #37
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So I have to ask why you haven't already applied to Facebook for a job?

Have you read "What Color Is Your Parachute?"? What did you think about the advice for finding a job/devotion/hobby that it gives?
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:10 PM   #38
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A couple of thoughts from my 20 odd years of employment in a few different industries.

First and foremost, a company hires an employee to make them money. Hiring any employee is an investment and a risk. They don't know if you'll be profitable to them or not, but they attempt to reduce their risk by hiring employees with degrees and a certain number of years experience in a field. If they beleieve you are able to make them a profit, they'll hire you, if not, they won't. How they determine that you'll be capable of doingso is based on an evaluation of your skills and your ability to communicate those skills. A college degree is a skill set, just as X number of years writing code. A college degree takes so many years of mostly doing things you don't like to get to where you want to be, the first job or two will likely be a similar experience. I'm not suggesting you have to get a college degree, but realize until you have 5-10 years experience in your field with well known companies, you are going to be very limited in your options and will have a tough time getting your foot in the door. The fact you dropped out of college doesn't look good. Consider finishing your degree, being currently enrolled as a student after taking time off looks alot better on a resume than having dropped out.

Don't underestimate the value of networking. The majority of jobs I've had are due to knowing someone at the company that got me hired there.

Read job descriptions carefully. The company is doing their best to communicate what skills they are looking for in a candidate, and your task in your resume, over the phone and face to face is to clearly communicate your ability to perform those tasks.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:54 PM   #39
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Thank you everyone for your thoughts. It may not seem like it but I really do appreciate the advice, and it will certainly have an effect on my current direction. Although I certainly take pity on the next lost 22 year to stumble upon this site, it was certainly a shot to my ego. Fortunately I can take it and learn from it. As a wise man once said "Life is tough, unfair, and owes you nothing" that must be why I cant delete/rewrite my opening post to sound like somebody other than an arrogant, know it all.
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Anyways I welcome any additional advice/wisdom you soon to be retirees can offer
That sounded like "Goodbye", but assuming you're still with us:
You sound like an entrepreneur and a website architect. I don't think a college degree is required in those areas, although they're certainly offered.

You'd do great as a blogger:
Passive Income: The Smart Passive Income Blog

I hear Automattic is looking for help, and they have a workforce structure that you'd fit right into:
Work With Us — Automattic

And finally, you could run your own commercial website business like this guy:
Ikayzo | Creative Services and Software Development for Finance, Government and Entertainment Industries
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:39 AM   #40
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I don't believe a degree proves much of anything, but in today's western society the employment market is so competitive that a high school diploma is no longer sufficient. Indeed, many people Darrell's age are getting master's degrees, which will in due course become the next threshold.

Darrell, if you don't want to worry about satisfying employers' whimsical, artificial criteria - and I certainly don't blame you - I would strongly suggest that you continue with self-employment, which will provide a lot more autonomy, as well as opportunities for creativity and working with friends.

If you are forced to look for a job working for someone else, presumably it is because your past work experience in web start-ups hasn't paid off with significant sustainable income. if that is correct, you should re-think how valuable all that past business experience really is, at least in the eyes of potential employers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell
I have no problem working under somebody who challenges me intellectually, who I can learn from, who I can impress. That goes for the company as well. I've done all the odd jobs through middle school (food industry, lawn care, office work sorting papers) and I Remember how intellectual dogging they were on me. I want to find out if besides being self employed, if I could achieve a job showing similar benefits of a non-zombie job, without having to devote 4 years of my life for a degree.
I suspect that most people on this board have found their jobs to be full of repetitive, non-challenging work, supervised by people they don't particularly like or respect. Unfortunately that is the reality of working for many people, and I see few if any signs of future change: if anything it is likely to get worse, with employers becoming increasingly more demanding. That's why we are keen on FIRE ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell
I wish to go to school but its for other reasons than to get a degree, I wish to surround myself with people my own age, most of which are going somewhere in life. I want to network with other students again. And I really do love some classes, i'm a huge history buff. But I've watched my friend spend the last two years of their schooling taking classes they hated,
Given the above, if I were you I would go back to university - possibly on a part-time basis - and study history, which you will enjoy and won't require you to take any courses not to your liking. Although it won't do much to equip you for the workplace (other than polishing your reasoning and writing skills), you'll be able to hang out with other students and eventually tick the 'degree' box.
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