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Old 03-15-2011, 05:16 AM   #21
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Does this orgainzation do periodic evaluations and if so, when was your last evaluation and how was it? If it was recent and good, you can further point to that as something they need to factor into any future personnel decisions. If it has been a while, you could ask for an evaluation in the hope that the process itself will remind your manager the value you bring to the table and a recent good evaluation on file certainly won't hurt the cause.
Quickly, as I am in the process of heading out the door (need to get dressed first. )

My last evaluation was 1 yr 3 mos ago and it was positive. He said at that time he waned to promote me but there was no money. *cough* Which is where the earlier conversation occurred later on as PYT progressed. I didn't say anything negative about her then, but asked about the obvious availability of money.

I wish he had a 'thing' for people past their expiration date. I'd be all set.
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Old 03-15-2011, 08:15 AM   #22
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passup_va....As you know it is hard to give advice without all the if's, and's or buts. Did not realize this PYT has been in the company a while. I thought she was a new hire. Given that she is not ...makes the landscape a bit more difficult.
Had a similar situation many years back where PYT ..with absolutely no experience in project management, no education or experience in programming or systems and who had been working in a secretarial capacity was hired as a support project manager. The reason? She was having an affair with the guy that hired her. They were often seen going to his car "at lunch".
If his eyes "light up" when talking to her...there won't be a lot you can do except "keep your nose clean" so to speak. You sound professional enough that no one needs to tell you that.
Do what "your gut" tells you in light of the politics.
Then there is that old adage..."Don't get mad...get EVEN" !

Tough situation.
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:02 AM   #23
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passup_va....As you know it is hard to give advice without all the if's, and's or buts. Did not realize this PYT has been in the company a while. I thought she was a new hire. Given that she is not ...makes the landscape a bit more difficult.
Relative to my 16 years, she is. Just looked it up, she's close to 4 years, coming in as a PT no benes hire at 19.75 hours. I did the initial screening (phone interview), so just kick me!!! She's been FT the past 2 years, the googoo gaga effect. Again kick me - I trained her. She readily admits this - bless her. No more tho. If she's that smart, she'll figure it all out.

At work now and reading / responding on my iPhone. Painful.

Thank you all for your advice.

I look forward to further stories and/or advice.
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:55 PM   #24
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This sort of thing happens all too often in the working world. Having worked for top qualifications, and having top experience, one is trumped by a "weathergirl pretty" new or new-ish employee who has neither qualifications nor experience. My suggestions are as follows:

(1) DO remind yourself that like you, your co-workers clearly see why this new employee got her job and the title you coveted. They may pretend that they don't see it, but they know.

(2) DO remind yourself that there is no logical reason to be less happy with your pay and benefits package and duties than you were before this woman was given the job.

(3) DO remind yourself that life isn't fair, and yet we can eventually overcome all of it and reach ER (when none of the workplace baloney matters to any great extent any more).

(4) DO remind yourself that on top of her other duties, she may have a too-close personal relationship with the boss that you don't, and this can be a tiring and demeaning situation for her if she perceives it as what it is.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:22 PM   #25
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:36 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
If you have a HR dept it might make sense to tactfully express concerns about how positions have been filled in the past in the hope that HR will get involved and help make any future openings more objective.
Believe it or not, HR can be your friend in situations like this.
If you have a personal friend in HR, make a lunch date. It doesn't have to be the "right" HR person, your friend will confer with the right one.

Also, a good technique in situations like this is to go to your boss and simply ask "What can I do to make myself the right person to fill that role (implying the appropriate title/pay/duties)? There might be something you lack that you just haven't noticed, and it could defuse the situation if the boss can say "Glad you asked; it would be really good if you ..."
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Old 03-15-2011, 05:16 PM   #27
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(1) DO remind yourself that like you, your co-workers clearly see why this new employee got her job and the title you coveted. They may pretend that they don't see it, but they know.
There was another person affected by this move, and she is p***ed. Her history is that she was here a year, given her job because she was a friend, moved, came back, and was given her job back out of 'respect', and the fact that we could use someone, and bringing someone familiar back into the fold, was an easy decision. She has been acting up over another supervisor clamping down on process so she sort of scr*wed herself since she applied for the same position, and an earlier one she would have been qualified for, that PYT got. Mind you this person is a PYT as well.

Btw I don't covet the title. All I've asked for is a title that is reflective of what I do. PYTs can ask and in a heart beat, have it done. I have to struggle for 'correct description'. Possibly it's the carrot I am never going to have or he'll allow me to have. Mind you, I don't ask that often. I'm not stupid.

Quote:
(2) DO remind yourself that there is no logical reason to be less happy with your pay and benefits package and duties than you were before this woman was given the job.
I am happy to have a job. I am happy to have a job. Click my heels three times. That doesn't mean it doesn't sting when you see cr@p like this happen. I hate when it happens to other people, not just myself.

Quote:
(3) DO remind yourself that life isn't fair, and yet we can eventually overcome all of it and reach ER (when none of the workplace baloney matters to any great extent any more).
You're right, but it makes it hell to save when you can't get ahead. I do a pretty darn good job, but I want to do more.
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Old 03-15-2011, 05:28 PM   #28
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Believe it or not, HR can be your friend in situations like this.
If you have a personal friend in HR, make a lunch date. It doesn't have to be the "right" HR person, your friend will confer with the right one.
HR is remote (a couple of hours away). I've been reluctant to address any issues knowing it will go into my record that I even talked to HR and HR will need to talk to the offending 'boss'. I'd rather handle it on my own. I'd already talked to HR once before when I received an errant message meant for someone else talking about me. We'd had one HECK of a week. I took it up with the 'boss', pointing out that it was indicative of more than just poor judgement on the messenger's part. The 'boss' thought the message that had been sent had to go to HR. Possibly what is happening to me now, as has been suggested by 'my ear', is soft retaliation.

*start music* It's a mannnnnn's world */end music*

Quote:
Also, a good technique in situations like this is to go to your boss and simply ask "What can I do to make myself the right person to fill that role (implying the appropriate title/pay/duties)? There might be something you lack that you just haven't noticed, and it could defuse the situation if the boss can say "Glad you asked; it would be really good if you ..."
Been there done that. The response would be 'make yourself young and pretty'. I am not poor looking, just 'ag-ed'.

I try to remember, and even right now, that this is nothing compared to waht has befallen Japan. I am lucky.

---

Btw, was alerted that PYT and I are due for another review. Timing couldn't be better. By then I'll know just how to address what i need to address, 'if' I need to. It may come up in other way's indirectly. I'm hoping to be able to ask for certain compensation. As I've read elsewhere - ask for the moon, knowing it's actually the stars you want.
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Old 03-15-2011, 05:30 PM   #29
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Btw happy to see I am a dryer sheet wannabe now. I saw a thread about this - don't make me go look - can someone in 20 words or less tell me about dryer sheets?
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:41 AM   #30
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If you need this job, by all means express your feelings but don't threaten to leave or give any sort of ultimatum....just quietly look for another job and then give notice (hmmm, maybe 1 day's notice?).
+1. Sounds like it has happened twice. Find excuses to bypass the training of people competing for the same job. Check out Amazon for books on the programming skills you need. Don't overlook the contracting jobs. They often lead to permanent positions. You make your own breaks. Good luck.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:55 AM   #31
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Perhaps I could be called a "mercenary" given my career path of 2 to 4 year stints at each place (I prefer "consultant who has one client at a time"), but it seems to me that you have a weak hand at the table with these people and will remain the rented mule as long as you stay there. When it comes down to it, employees really only have one trump card to play: walking out the door. I think you should investigate this option.
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Old 03-16-2011, 07:54 AM   #32
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Well darn, I lost my post.

To the last two posters - again, been there, done that. :-)

If we were not in such a sad state economically, I might have been long gone, but we are, and I am still here. The fact that I 'want/desire' to move elsewhere makes it even harder because where I am now the jobless rate is lower. Where I'd like to be competition for each job higher. I'm sticking it out though. I want my next job to be my last. I'm a lifer and not one to move from job to job. I love MOST of the people here. Sometimes you just suck it up because of that. That said - I'm am ready to be long gone.
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Old 03-16-2011, 07:57 AM   #33
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Brewer, when you say 'consulting, do you mean 'contracting'? If so, I've investigated that route.

If not, please advise how to take this path and the networking you do to be able to do this. Thanks.
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:15 AM   #34
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Brewer, when you say 'consulting, do you mean 'contracting'? If so, I've investigated that route.

If not, please advise how to take this path and the networking you do to be able to do this. Thanks.

In my case, it is just a turn of phrase. I have been a W2 employee for my entire career, but have frequently moved on when I saw a better opportunity. So I think of myself as a consultant, but I only have one client at a time often for years.

DW, OTOH, is self employed on a part time basis pursuing her chosen oprofession (career counselor). I would say that that route is best explored while you have a day job or (as in our case) a supportive spouse.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:56 AM   #35
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passap, I think Brewer's on the right track for you. Your time at this place is done. Get really motivated to return home ASAP.

There's got to be somebody in Charlotte hiring. Take a week's vacation and set up a bunch of appointments for coffee/lunch/drinks with anyone down this way who can possibly know someone in your biz.

I know that there are a lot of long-timer types around here, but like Brewer, I have found that moving on is the best way of moving up.

My DH is from Charlotte, don't know if he still has any contacts up that way, but PM me if you want to with a rough sketch and I'll try to roust up some ideas.

Dryer sheets are the bane of frugal types--never use a whole one! or so says the originators of our little community.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:43 PM   #36
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My last evaluation was 1 yr 3 mos ago and it was positive. He said at that time he waned to promote me but there was no money. *cough* Which is where the earlier conversation occurred later on as PYT progressed. I didn't say anything negative about her then, but asked about the obvious availability of money.
And if I understand it correctly he later found money to to promote PYT but not you? Now that you have an eval coming up you might want to let him know that it didn't go unnoticed.

The unfortunate reality is that unless you are ready to move on to greener pastures, you have a weak hand. The best you can do is be persistent and consistent in asking for what you want and explaining why you deserve it and if they say no then being clear that you are not happy about it and you think their decision is unfair.

While the age discrimination card is a difficult card to play, perhaps a hint about it might cause the boss to pause and think - but I'm not sure if that is the right course. Others might have views on that approach.
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