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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 12:00 PM   #21
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

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Originally Posted by justin
For those looking to ER after a 20-25 year career, it would be hard to justify a mid-career jump from, say, engineering to law (focusing solely on money and not psychic rewards, if any, of practicing law).
Agreed.* If, by some miracle, my college-aged nephews ever asked for advice, I would tell them to major in something that will allow them to get a decent job immediately -- engineering and accounting come to mind -- unless they know that they want to go to law school, business school or medical school, in which case they can major in anything that will allow them to achieve good grades, but that, in any event, grad school (of whatever flavor) should immediately follow college.* Then, they should save and invest diligently, LBYM and retire as soon as they can.* Any time spent "finding yourself" simply delays retirement.

In my own case, I probably would have gone straight to law school after college, but Uncle Sam insisted on five years of indentured servitude to pay for my undergraduate degree.
* *
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 12:07 PM   #22
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

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Originally Posted by Gumby
Agreed. If, by some miracle, my college-aged nephews ever asked for advice, I would tell them to major in something that will allow them to get a decent job immediately -- engineering and accounting come to mind -- unless they know that they want to go to law school, business school or medical school, in which case they can major in anything that will allow them to achieve good grades, but that, in any event, grad school (of whatever flavor) should immediately follow college. Then, they should save and invest diligently, LBYM and retire as soon as they can. Any time spent "finding yourself" simply delays retirement.
My feelings as well. Engineering, computer science, pure or applied sciences, nursing, or business/accounting. Otherwise, you might as well go to a community college and pick up a trade. Even if they plan on going to graduate/professional school, it would be better to have a useful undergrad degree, just in case things don't work out.
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 01:32 PM   #23
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?


I love the variety on this board!! I'd refrain from saying anything to anyone about what to do in college. Like Martha, I majored in philosophy and considered graduate school. Two years later I finally went to law school and earned a master's in counseling at the same time. After some time working for others, government, charities, firms, I turned my part-time side practice into full time work, as a sole practitioner. I set my hours, and it's been a great ride..... I couldn't stand all the crap I heard about choosing to major in philosophy. It's something each person has to decide.
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 01:51 PM   #24
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

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Originally Posted by kate
I couldn't stand all the crap I heard about choosing to major in philosophy. It's something each person has to decide.
To each their own, for sure! But after seeing college buddies who chose the liberal arts paths, most wish they had done something more (financially) productive during college. There's a lot of frustration of having spent 4 years working hard to obtain a degree that qualifies you to wait tables or teach (after you get a master's). Don't get me wrong, I can understand and appreciate the value of a liberal arts education (I obtained a BA as well as my BS in engineering). But I would still recommend a major that would allow one to make a living and to support a family. There's always electives and minors to be had (or dual degree programs).
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 02:01 PM   #25
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

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Originally Posted by justin
To each their own, for sure!* But after seeing college buddies who chose the liberal arts paths, most wish they had done something more (financially) productive during college.* There's a lot of frustration of having spent 4 years working hard to obtain a degree that qualifies you to wait tables or teach (after you get a master's).* Don't get me wrong, I can understand and appreciate the value of a liberal arts education (I obtained a BA as well as my BS in engineering).* But I would still recommend a major that would allow one to make a living and to support a family.* There's always electives and minors to be had (or dual degree programs).*
I don't regret for a moment my study of the liberal arts. Psychology and philosophy, the search for the answer to the question "why." Nothing more interesting. I didn't think about making a living until later. Thank goodness.

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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 02:03 PM   #26
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
To each their own, for sure!* But after seeing college buddies who chose the liberal arts paths, most wish they had done something more (financially) productive during college. Don't get me wrong, I can understand and appreciate the value of a liberal arts education (I obtained a BA as well as my BS in engineering).
Funny, all those years of developing their critical thinking skills and they still can't figure out how to get a job.

Gimme an engineering knuckle-dragging degree any day. I'll save the liberal arts stuff for ER.
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 02:11 PM   #27
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

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Funny, all those years of developing their critical thinking skills and they still can't figure out how to get a job.
Teaching or law. Simple.
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 02:34 PM   #28
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

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Originally Posted by kate
I'd refrain from saying anything to anyone about what to do in college.
*
I would offer my opinion only if they asked.* Since they haven't asked, I haven't opined.* I agree that each must make his own choice. If you major in something solely because someone else tells you to do so, you won't be happy.* But it can't hurt to hear the options.

*
Quote:
Originally Posted by kate
Like Martha, I majored in philosophy and considered graduate school.* Two years later I finally went to law school....
I see a common thread -- liberal arts degree followed by law school or a PhD so that you can teach.* If you don't follow up a liberal arts degree with one of these, you may be in for tough sledding in the job market.* Therefore, by choosing to major in philospohy, you are virtually locking yourself into some form of graduate/professional school, and quitting halfway though the process is worse than never having started.*

Of the two post-grad paths, it is my uninformed opinion that a starting lawyer will generally earn more than an associate professor of philosophy.
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 03:09 PM   #29
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

probably good to have the proper degree to practice medicine. maybe others open some doors. but mostly, like anything, it depends on what ya do with it.

i've got a cousin who was written up in a national mag as part of a story on what people are doing with their phd's, he was delivering ups packages (now he's a publisher). a drinking buddy from highschool *started with conversion vans, then got a used car lot, now has a few mercedes dealerships & a pretty little downeast cruiser. a friend who did great at rutgers now lives in squalor.

i have a good friend who started off repossessing cars with no degree and now makes 6 figures in the auto industry while another friend got her masters then worked directly for an x-president then a mayor of a major city and is now at a major corporation.

me? i didn't even know college was for getting a degree. i thought it was just an extension of summer camp.
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 03:12 PM   #30
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

For the record, if Berkeley phoned me to demand that I return either the Philosophy degree or the MBA, I'd give up the latter -- in a heartbeat. *

Yes, the MBA has allowed me to make a lot more money. *I'm glad I have it. *

But the Philosophy degree expanded my mind and using the thinking skills it taught me bring enjoyment to my life every single day. *The MBA feeds my body, but logic and philosophy feed my soul. *I don't know how you put a price on that.

If I had gone the safe route and taken "Engineering, computer science, pure or applied sciences, nursing, or business/accounting" I'd probably have shot myself by now. *I've taken computer science and accounting courses to increase my understanding of my job and yes, I do pretty well at them. *But I couldn't do them every day or care about them -- I'm just not that kind of animal. *

I suspect that the engineers on this board feel the same way about liberal arts, and god bless them, one and all. *The key is to do what suits you -- you cannot fit a square peg into a round hole and expect the peg not to eat its heart out, eventually.

I think we are all doing more or less the right thing for ourselves. *Otherwise, we'd be doing something else!

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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 03:17 PM   #31
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

Some jobs/careers for philosophy majors, from the University of Minnsota in Duluth:


stand up comedy (Steve Martin) * * * * *nanny*
deputy sheriff in Colorado* * * * * * * * * * * *stock broker*
work in advertising * * * * * * * * * * run tropical fish store*
teach K-12 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * psychiatrist*
librarian* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *pol. campaign worker* * *
minister* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * computer salesman
lawyer* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * casino surveillance
go to Medical School * * * * * * * * * *become judge*
clerk N.D. Supreme Court* * * * * * * * playwright*
computer weather forecasting * * * * * *write books*
Natural Resource Research Institute* * *become Pope
movie star (Harrison Ford) * * * * * * *etc. etc.
psychologist
Math *professor*
work on Hospital Ethics review boards
work for Proctor and Gamble*
chief of staff for U.S. Senator
college administrator*
housewife and mother*
poet (T.S. Eliot, others)*
write, direct, star in films (Woody Allen)
teach at Duluth area junior college*
computer programmer
work for Pepsico*
own and run largest Minnesota Optical company
researcher in Library of Congress
dancer/choreographer*
sell real estate
publisher's representative
staff member U.S. House of Representatives*
U.S. Secretary of Education (Wm. Bennett)
design and produce word processor software (Nota Bene)
publish a magazine
cook in a Grand Marais restaurant*
military strategy consultant to Pentagon
social worker*
teach English in Japan*
physical therapy*
sell music synthesizers for R.A. Moog*
join U.S. Marine Corp.*
television/film comedy (various Monty Python members)
executive at National Endowment for Humanities
Computer Science professor (at UMD and elsewhere)*
run dry cleaning business
work for startup computer company in Twin Cities
analyze data for various state governments in Twig, Minnesota*
go to grad school in French literature*
be philosophical about whatever they do (*?)

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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 03:22 PM   #32
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

That Pope thing sounds like a pretty good gig.
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 03:46 PM   #33
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

Maybe we all should have gotten a history degree from the University of North Carolina. I hear "being Michael Jordan" was a pretty good occupation for at least one of the program's graduates. Anecdotal evidence can "prove" anything.

Not majoring in Philosophy (or other liberal arts) doesn't mean you can't take courses in the field or study it on the side. I know my high school, undergrad and grad/professional curricula included plenty of "philosophy" content. Granted, not as much as someone who pursued a B.A. in Philosophy would have seen.

Point is, I view college as a practical place to learn how to make a good living. That must be where we disagree. I think a number of my professors also disagreed with my feelings as well.

When I send my kids out into the world, I intend to do what I can to show them that the correct path in college is one where they can make a good living (whatever they do). If they want to sit around and read the classics on the side and discuss the minutiae of existentialism and nihilism, fine. Short of getting a PhD then teaching or a JD then practicing law, the options are limited in my opinion.

Spiritual and intellectual enlightenment doesn't have to come from a person behind a podium in a college lecture hall.
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 03:49 PM   #34
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

I think i'll make it easy on Gabe. I'll pay for any degree that will help him get a job or better pay. Anything else he wants to do, he's welcome to undertake at his own expense.
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 03:53 PM   #35
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

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Originally Posted by Cute n Fuzzy Bun'ny
I think i'll make it easy on Gabe. I'll pay for any degree that will help him get a job or better pay. Anything else he wants to do, he's welcome to undertake at his own expense.
Brilliant minds think alike!

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Below is a list of the approved majors you may pursue with my money at your choice of the two following state schools. Everything else everywhere else is of course available through self-funding.

..."
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 04:06 PM   #36
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

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Point is, I view college as a practical place to learn how to make a good living.* That must be where we disagree.
I couldn't agree with you more, Justin.

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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 04:11 PM   #37
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

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Originally Posted by justin
* Brilliant minds think alike!

"Dear Daughter,

Below is a list of the approved majors you may pursue with my money at your choice of the two following state schools.* Everything else everywhere else is of course available through self-funding.

..."
I don't see anything wrong with that approach at all. *I'd also probably set a grade requirement which if not met would lead to a cutoff in tuition funding after a probation period. *I'm all for the "college experience", but my kids had better learn some employable skills (and get good grades) in exchange for four years and $50k-$100k of my money.
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 04:27 PM   #38
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

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I couldn't agree with you more, Justin.
I'm glad we agree.
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 04:34 PM   #39
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

Hey, I agreed with him first!
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?
Old 06-20-2006, 04:41 PM   #40
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Re: Is MBA program worth the cost?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute n Fuzzy Bun'ny
I think i'll make it easy on Gabe. *I'll pay for any degree that will help him get a job or better pay. *Anything else he wants to do, he's welcome to undertake at his own expense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
*Brilliant minds think alike!

"Dear Daughter,

Below is a list of the approved majors you may pursue with my money at your choice of the two following state schools. *Everything else everywhere else is of course available through self-funding.

..."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby
I don't see anything wrong with that approach at all. *I'd also probably set a grade requirement which if not met would lead to a cutoff in tuition funding after a probation period. *I'm all for the "college experience", but my kids had better learn some employable skills (and get good grades) in exchange for four years and $50k-$100k of my money.

Gee you are all tough guys. *

I doubt if we all will be posting here in 20 years, but I sure would love to hear CFB and Justin, and Jay (if you end up with kids) talking about what their kids are doing in school. * *But all is well, Gabe is in law school and wants to be a prosecuting attorney. He is engaged to Wab's daughter, who is a concert pianist. *Oh. *But Gabe's *little sister, she wants to be an artist or maybe a novelist. She just changed her major. *Again! *

Justin's daughter just graduated with a *degree in social work and is working for former president John Edwards at the Center on Poverty at the UNC school of law. *
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